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Re: Question for the list

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  • James Eckman
    ... Making Shoji by Toshio Odate, he was a trained as a tategushi(shoji maker) in Japan and has written for Fine Woodworking for decades in America. This
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 30, 2004
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      >From: <ladypyrate@...>
      >
      >Noble friends,
      > Has anyone here built, or can perhaps reccomend instructions for building shoji screens?
      >
      "Making Shoji" by Toshio Odate, he was a trained as a tategushi(shoji
      maker) in Japan and has written for Fine Woodworking for decades in
      America. This book may be overkill though. Also if you build using
      those methods, you will need to purchase several speciality chisels that
      are expensive. The rest can be either Western or Japanese tools. I have
      made a shoji like frame for my painting instructor for wet mounting
      sumi-e and it's a bit fussy, you have to make lots of good fitting joints.

      Japanese tool porn , I've spent chunks of money here!:
      http://www.japanwoodworker.com/

      >I am looking to make some in a tabletop size for a display of Japanese A&S items at our Kingdom A&S festival in March. If anyone has any suggestions, I would be most appreciative.
      >
      >
      It also might be possible to buy a small screen. I recommend a google
      search.

      Jim Eckman
    • Solveig
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... The first problem is your identification of shoji with screens. Although there are North American screens which
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 30, 2004
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        > Has anyone here built, or can perhaps reccomend instructions for
        >building shoji screens?

        The first problem is your identification of shoji with screens. Although
        there are North American screens which resemble shoji, shoji are really
        prototypical sliding glass doors. They are not screens. They slide in
        tracks. One of the simplest ways of making them is to create the wooden
        framework which is a sort of chineese puzzle lattice and glue the paper
        to one size. Originally, the "handles" were simply framed in boxes. Modern
        shoji in Japan typically have mass produced inset handles.
        --

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

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      • James Eckman
        ... Toshio Odate defines shoji as Japanese sliding doors and screens. Screens can be used to block vision as well as keep out bugs. He has examples of
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 2, 2004
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          >
          >
          > From: Solveig <nostrand@...> Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig!
          >
          >The first problem is your identification of shoji with screens. Although
          >there are North American screens which resemble shoji, shoji are really
          >prototypical sliding glass doors. They are not screens.
          >
          Toshio Odate defines shoji as Japanese sliding doors and screens.
          Screens can be used to block vision as well as keep out bugs. He has
          examples of freestanding shoji in his book, which he calls shoji. Of
          course some have more specific names like naninani~shoji but shoji seems
          to be the generic name for the panel and not what its function is. For
          example, kakeshoji means hanging screen and is not any kind of door.

          >They slide in tracks. One of the simplest ways of making them is to create the wooden
          >framework which is a sort of chineese puzzle lattice and glue the paper.
          >to one size.
          >
          I don't know if simple is a good description of this process, your
          probably more skilled at woodcraft than I am.

          >Originally, the "handles" were simply framed in boxes. Modern
          >shoji in Japan typically have mass produced inset handles.
          >
          >
          In the book, Odate-sensei shows a fair number of types of screens, none
          have inset handles or framed in boxes of any kind, they do have paper
          handles. This may be a modern addition.

          Jim Eckman
        • mokurai
          Yahoo is now using something called Web Beacons to track Yahoo Group users around the net and see what you re doing and where you are going - similar to
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 2, 2004
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            Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons" to track Yahoo
            Group users around the net and see what you're doing and where you
            are going - similar to cookies.

            Take a look at their updated privacy statement:
            http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy

            About half-way down the page, in the section on cookies you will see
            a link that says "web beacons."
            Click on the phrase "web beacons."

            That will bring you to a paragraph entitled "Outside the Yahoo
            Network."
            In this section you'll see a little "click here to opt out" link
            that will let you "opt-out" of their new method of snooping.

            Once you have clicked that link, you are opted out. Notice
            the "Success"
            message on the top of the next page. Be careful because on that page
            there is a "Cancel Opt-out" button that, if clicked, will *undo**
            the opt-out.


            Feel free to forward this to other groups.
          • sigrune@aol.com
            Thank you Mokurai, I m not worried about web privacy so much but I hate all those little flags, beacons, cookies, dataminers, etc. that loge in weird places in
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 2, 2004
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              Thank you Mokurai,

              I'm not worried about web privacy so much but I hate all those little flags, beacons, cookies, dataminers, etc. that loge in weird places in my computer and slow down the performance, change minor settings, etc.

              It can play havoc with my graphics programs... and there is nothing I hate more (online) than opening a web browser and it going somewhere I had not told it to.

              -Takeda
            • Kristin Pamperin
              Mokurai, Thank you for informing us about this new tracking device. However, clicking on the opt-out option only means that your information is not shared with
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 3, 2004
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                Mokurai,

                Thank you for informing us about this new tracking
                device. However, clicking on the opt-out option only
                means that your information is not shared with Yahoo's
                partners. You are still being tracked. (see statement
                below from the privacy statement)

                >>You may choose to opt-out of Yahoo! using this
                information for this research. Please click here to
                opt-out.<<

                Big Brother still watches us all!

                Krystinia

                --- mokurai <mokurai@...> wrote:

                > Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons" to
                > track Yahoo
                > Group users around the net and see what you're doing
                > and where you
                > are going - similar to cookies.
                >
                > Take a look at their updated privacy statement:
                > http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy
                >
                > About half-way down the page, in the section on
                > cookies you will see
                > a link that says "web beacons."
                > Click on the phrase "web beacons."
                >
                > That will bring you to a paragraph entitled "Outside
                > the Yahoo
                > Network."
                > In this section you'll see a little "click here to
                > opt out" link
                > that will let you "opt-out" of their new method of
                > snooping.
                >
                > Once you have clicked that link, you are opted out.
                > Notice
                > the "Success"
                > message on the top of the next page. Be careful
                > because on that page
                > there is a "Cancel Opt-out" button that, if clicked,
                > will *undo**
                > the opt-out.
                >
                >
                > Feel free to forward this to other groups.
                >
                >




                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!
                http://my.yahoo.com
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... Nope! I think that we are trying to describe the same sort of thing here. The handles are not actually made out of
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 3, 2004
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                  Noble Cousins!

                  Greetings from Solveig!

                  >In the book, Odate-sensei shows a fair number of types of screens, none
                  >have inset handles or framed in boxes of any kind, they do have paper
                  >handles. This may be a modern addition.

                  Nope! I think that we are trying to describe the same sort of thing here.
                  The handles are not actually made out of paper. They are an opening in
                  the framing where there is no covering. That is a more traditional form.
                  Modern shouji often have stamped metal inset handles in the framing.

                  This note prompted me to look up shouji in Daijirin. The article is rather
                  interesting. Most generically, shouji refers to a feature of Japanese
                  architecture constructed by glueing some sort of surface over
                  of a wooden frame. The surfacing material can be either paper or cloth
                  and can be either thick or thin. Originally, both sides were surfaced,
                  but begining with the middle ages, the Japanese took up using a single
                  layer of paper or silk so as to admit light. Daijirin (1st ed.) also
                  notes the special application of shouji to windows and as room boundaries.
                  While tsudare can also be translated as screen, they are simply hung and
                  not glued to a frame.

                  Frederic in "Japan Encyclopedia" is more restrictive: "In architecture, a
                  sliding door or window with mullions; its open surfaces are covered
                  with white translucent rice paper so that light can enter. Shouji are
                  still widely used, and their function is as practical as it is
                  decorative. In modern homes, they are often lined with glass on the
                  outside to protect them."
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
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                • James Eckman
                  ... Yes, but there s a special way to fold it so the wood is completely covered, your hand touchs the paper, not wood, that was my meaning. ... I think they
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 3, 2004
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                    >
                    >
                    >From: Solveig <nostrand@...>
                    >
                    >
                    >>>In the book, Odate-sensei shows a fair number of types of screens, none
                    >>>have inset handles or framed in boxes of any kind, they do have paper
                    >>>handles. This may be a modern addition.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >Nope! I think that we are trying to describe the same sort of thing here.
                    >The handles are not actually made out of paper.
                    >
                    Yes, but there's a special way to fold it so the wood is completely
                    covered, your hand touchs the paper, not wood, that was my meaning.

                    >This note prompted me to look up shouji in Daijirin. The article is rather
                    >interesting. Most generically, shouji refers to a feature of Japanese
                    >architecture constructed by glueing some sort of surface over
                    >of a wooden frame.
                    >
                    I think they key part here is correct. Free standing screens are not
                    called shoji, they are called either byobu(opaque) or tsuitate. If it's
                    meant to be part of a house, even if it doesn't slide but is hung or
                    just placed it's shoji. It has to be a house piece and not random furniture.

                    >Frederic in "Japan Encyclopedia" is more restrictive: "In architecture, a
                    >sliding door or window with mullions;
                    >
                    Frederic or the last generation of traditionally apprenticed tategushi?
                    Hmmm... I say they don't have to slide.

                    Jim Eckman
                  • Solveig
                    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... This is the point I was trying to get across. Shouji are sliding architectural units. The opaque internal sort are
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 4, 2004
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                      Noble Cousins!

                      Greetings from Solveig!

                      >I think they key part here is correct. Free standing screens are not
                      >called shoji, they are called either byobu(opaque) or tsuitate. If it's
                      >meant to be part of a house, even if it doesn't slide but is hung or
                      >just placed it's shoji. It has to be a house piece and not random furniture.

                      This is the point I was trying to get across. Shouji are sliding architectural
                      units. The opaque internal sort are now called fusuma while shouji are the
                      translucent exterior sort. Very technically, these shouji can be internal.
                      However, their light admitting properties have them placed next to a narrow
                      companionway on the other side of which lie either wooden shutters or a
                      sliding glass door or similar contrivance. Strictly internal translucent
                      room dividers would be distinctly odd, but not impossible. One possibility
                      comes to minnd. I once stayed at a very very fance youth hostle whic was
                      set up in such a way that the rooms looked like small estates with the
                      entrances having these wooden jail-cell style gates on them. All very
                      fancy. Since these fronted on the interior of the building, the interior
                      of the building served as a sort of symbolic out doors and shouji could
                      easily face in this direction.
                      --

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar

                      +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                      +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
                      | trash by my email filters. |
                      +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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