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Re: [SCA-JML] Sengoku-jidai

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  • sigrune@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/10/04 12:48:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... or ... FYI, the two battles of Osaka Castle are 1614 (winter campaign) and 1615 (spring
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 10, 2004
      In a message dated 11/10/04 12:48:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      nostrand@... writes:
      >Noble Cousin!

      >::snip::Onin Ran (1467-1478 ) to variously the battle of Sekigahara (1600)
      >either of the two battles of Osaka Castle (1603 and 1615). Essentially,
      >it is a period of protracted civil war. ::end snip::

      FYI, the two battles of Osaka Castle are 1614 (winter campaign) and 1615
      (spring campaign)
      1603 is the year in which Tokugawa Ieyasu was offically made shogun.

      The winter campaign is kind of interesting in that it ended with a
      cease-fire, and one key provision of it was that Osaka castle was not to be
      repaired/reconstructed. Supposedly after Tokugawa left Osaka to return to Edo his
      remaining troops rioted and tore down part of the outworks of Osaka Castle. When
      the commanders of Osaka repaired the damage he used this as a pre-text to
      launch another campaign against them. I do not know how accurate these
      accounts and reasons are in the motivation department, but they are part of the
      "popular" history of the battles.

      Also one could logically argue that the Sengoku-jidai truly ended with
      Sekigahara in 1600. Past this point the vast majority of the regional barons
      (Daimyo) no longer campaigned against themsleves, the period of general civil wars
      was over. The resulting Osaka campaign, was not about the individual Daimyo
      contesting for power, (That had been decided) it was more of a method to
      remove the survivors of the previous hedgemony. In short when we define
      Sengokujidai as being the time of the wars between the individual Daimyo (which
      starts with the Onin Ran) that trend of individual warefare ends with Sekigahara.

      One could also then argue it ends slightly earlier because the trend of
      individual Daimyo independance declined as Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi
      gained power, the warring Daimyo had been functionally brought into the fold of
      a general government/alliance. I think that is one reason Toyotomi got the
      idea to go invade Korea... After all, if he left those barons to their own
      devices with their standing armies intact they would go right back to fighting.

      I think part of the reason why some people have trouble understanding the
      subtle diffrence between the Japanese meanings is that we (westerners) have
      nothing quite to compaire it to. Yes we had a civil war in the US, but it was a
      clear division of the country into 2 parts. That would be like the
      Nambokucho-jidai in Japan. The Sengoku period would be as if each state functionally
      cesceeded from the Union and ruled and warred amongst each other as separate
      countries. Sengoku does not mean a country in a civil war, it means a
      country participating in MANY civil WARS all going on willy-nilly like. :)


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