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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: A Variety of Inquiries (garb, names, poetry)

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  • Rae Lahman
    They shouldn t come apart just by being washed, unless you re really, really bad at handsewing. I handsew most of my garb, and I always wash it in the machine.
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
      They shouldn't come apart just by being washed, unless you're really, really bad at handsewing. I handsew most of my garb, and I always wash it in the machine. I haven't had to put too much of it back together yet! :)

      Tsukiko

      > Any reason they can't just be tossed in the washer/dryer? Many silks are fine with
      that (I wash mine and they come out fine.)
      >
      I sewed my pair by hand and mom says that if I throw them in the washer, they'd
      come unsewn. Heh, I washed my kosode yesterday and pretty much soaked my entire
      dormroom... poor poor roommates...




      ---------------------------------
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    • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
      ... *nods* I had gotten Ruri from Dalby s book Tale of Murasaki . But there are a few others I like and would you be so kind as to look over them? - Ayame
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
        > > Ah, well, back to the drawing board. Well, Ruri is probably legit, right?
        >
        > Actually, it sounds rather modern to me, I'm afraid...

        *nods* I had gotten Ruri from Dalby's book "Tale of Murasaki". But there are a few
        others I like and would you be so kind as to look over them?
        - Ayame
        -Fudeko
        -Kikueko
        I know the "ko" suffix is pretty modern, or at least, perceived to be over used, and
        this paired with the fact that I'm doing Heian, makes me a bit cautious.

        > > But I was mostly wondering what one
        > > would be wearing if not at court or if the red hakama was kinda like the Guess?
        jeans
        > > of the female Heian nobility and wore them regardless of occasion or location.
        > > And yes, that is a terrible analogy. I should be punished. (;
        >
        > <dirty old effingvoice>Sure, little missy, I can do that...</dirty old effingvoice>
        >
        Eeeep!!!!
        Well, guess my search for what non-attendant upper class women wore will continue.
        I mean, not all of the young women of that social class entered court service. I'm sure
        a good portion of them did, how better to get a husband than to ascend the social
        ladder? But the more fun things to make, the better.

        Thanks.
        s.
        E
      • daviem01
        ... You ... Ochikubo Monogatari is a really, really cool story-- I highly recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what s coming to them in a very
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
          > Does this mean we have a possible replacement for "Kitsune"? ;->
          You
          > know SOMEBODY's going to think it's cool. Heck, look what I picked!
          >
          > Makiwara

          "Ochikubo Monogatari" is a really, really cool story-- I highly
          recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what's coming to
          them in a very Heian way.

          -Aine
        • daviem01
          ... fellow Japanese persona ... screen names ... negatively viewed ... apparently redeemable, ... It seems that rats/mice were not always negatively viewed in
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
            > My nickname isn't Nezumi; I just have this feeling that if I let
            fellow Japanese persona
            > SCAdians come up with something, my lapses into rat tales and my
            screen names
            > elsewhere would invite the appelation, even though it's kind of a
            negatively viewed
            > animal no matter where you go, though with a few, but not
            apparently redeemable,
            > exceptions.

            It seems that rats/mice were not always negatively viewed in Japan,
            at least not nearly as much as foxes and the like. For one thing,
            there's a year in the cycle named after them; for another, because
            they tended to hang out where the rice (read: food) was, they were
            considered lucky and you sometimes see them as symbols of Inari, the
            god(dess) of rice. (Foxes, which preyed on the rats/mice/small
            animals in the fields and had a similar association.) There are some
            really great period and post-period paintings, netsuke, etc. of rats
            and mice, usually munching on vegetables or sheaves of grain.

            In particular, there are at least two picture scrolls featuring
            anthropomorphic mice as the main characters: "Nezumi no soshi" (The
            Mouse Story) and "Yahyoe nezumi" (Yahyoe the Mouse). The latter can
            be found online at http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-
            e.asp?ID=KL033&FRAME=False -- this particular scroll dates from the
            Edo Period but is apparently a reproduction/retelling of a Muromachi
            period story. It also expresses what I was saying above about rats
            and mice in period: during the course of his adventures, Yahyoe takes
            refuge in a shrine of Inari or Daikoku (not sure). When a lord and
            his wife come to pray, they take Yahyoe to be a messenger of the god
            and show him great kindness, even helping him to get back to his
            family.

            (The funniest part of the scroll is after Yahyoe marries the daughter
            of a field mouse and they have lots of children and live in splendor
            in a temple storehouse. The scroll shows the mice wearing fine
            clothing, playing human games, and eating fine feasts-- and then you
            see what's REALLY happening, at least if humans were to come across
            them: a bunch of tiny little mice crawling in and around old, beat up
            furniture and clothes in the temple storehouse, and nibbling on the
            offerings. Heehee!)


            > Actually, I found some documentation, or at least, a slightly
            secondary source that
            > mentions that in Tokugawa Japan, breeding fancy mice was a hobby
            (and has a
            > picture too.) There was apparently a manual too about how to breed
            mice and a quick
            > web search shows there was a Buddhist monk who had two pet fancy
            mice. Not
            > exactly rats, but rats are really just big mice with better
            personalities (;
            >

            Fascinating!

            -Aine
          • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
            - ... can ... Muromachi ... Ah, yes, I had stumbled along this scroll online a while back. One of the first pictures, where they re all in their finery, was
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
              ->
              > In particular, there are at least two picture scrolls featuring
              > anthropomorphic mice as the main characters: "Nezumi no soshi" (The
              > Mouse Story) and "Yahyoe nezumi" (Yahyoe the Mouse). The latter
              can
              > be found online at http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-
              > e.asp?ID=KL033&FRAME=False -- this particular scroll dates from the
              > Edo Period but is apparently a reproduction/retelling of a
              Muromachi
              > period story.

              Ah, yes, I had stumbled along this scroll online a while back. One of
              the first pictures,
              where they're all in their finery, was the background/desktop for my
              computer for a
              bit. Cute little story, though I felt sad when poor Yahyoe got lost
              and his wife missed
              him. Yeah, yeah, the story is only two or three paragraphs but the
              poor widdle
              mwousie...
              Actually, I was thinking about this yesterday, pet rats could
              actually ride pretty
              comfortably in wide court sleeves, provided they don't scamper down
              and tumble
              down the robe onto the ground (and you'd probably want to wear a
              yellow robe just in
              case, lol). Mine loved to hang out in the sleeves of regular clothes,
              but she'd probably
              get lost in a huge upper robe. (;
              ------
              | <'3 |
              \ ___/

              s.E
            • Ellen Davis
              ... I don t know if there s any authenticity in this, but in Fudoki by Kij Johnson, the narrator, Princess Harueme, speaks of how she used to raise mice
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
                > Actually, I was thinking about this yesterday, pet rats could
                > actually ride pretty
                > comfortably in wide court sleeves, provided they don't
                > scamper down and tumble
                > down the robe onto the ground (and you'd probably want to
                > wear a yellow robe just in
                > case, lol). Mine loved to hang out in the sleeves of regular
                > clothes, but she'd probably
                > get lost in a huge upper robe. (;

                I don't know if there's any authenticity in this, but in "Fudoki" by Kij
                Johnson, the narrator, Princess Harueme, speaks of how she used to raise
                mice which would nestle in her sleeves (in her young, wild and crazy days,
                anyway). Fantastic book.

                -Aine
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! -ko is a very very Heian name suffix which was REVIVED during the Meiji period. -- Your Humble Servant Solveig
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 12, 2004
                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig! -ko is a very very Heian name suffix which was
                  REVIVED during the Meiji period.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

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                • Solveig
                  Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Mice are fairly auspicious and are a zodiac character. Foxes are not generally auspicious and are not a zodiac
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 12, 2004
                    Noble Cousins!

                    Greetings from Solveig! Mice are fairly auspicious and are a zodiac character.
                    Foxes are not generally auspicious and are not a zodiac character. Mice may
                    be associated with a good rice harvest. Please, please, please, do not try
                    to impose modern North American fantasy upon medieval Japan.
                    --

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar

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                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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                  • Anthony J. Bryant
                    ... Dontcha love Heian comeuppance? :) Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 28, 2004
                      daviem01 wrote:


                      > "Ochikubo Monogatari" is a really, really cool story-- I highly
                      > recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what's coming to
                      > them in a very Heian way.

                      Dontcha love Heian comeuppance? :)

                      Effingham

                      --

                      Anthony J. Bryant
                      Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                      Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                      http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                      Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
                      http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
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