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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: A Variety of Inquiries (garb, names, poetry)

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... Actually, it sounds rather modern to me, I m afraid... ... There are a couple of giveaways on the mannequin, but you have to be tuned to that sort of
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
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      Booknerd9@... wrote:

      >>I'd be really cautious about this. The list is riddled with mistake.....
      >>I wouldn't trust it, unless you (1) speak enough Japanese to catch the mistakes,
      >>and (2) had better sources to cross-reference anything it says.
      >
      >
      > Ah, well, back to the drawing board. Well, Ruri is probably legit, right?

      Actually, it sounds rather modern to me, I'm afraid...

      >>Minor problem: Unless you're under 13 or so, you probably wouldn't be wearing
      >>that. That's kids' clothing.
      >
      >
      > Ah, thanks. The mannequin has decieved me.

      There are a couple of giveaways on the mannequin, but you have to be tuned to
      that sort of thing. For one, the hair isn't dressed as an adult's, nor as long.
      For another, the outfit, based on the cut/garment of a hitatare, is HUGE on the
      lil' lady. ;)

      > But I was mostly wondering what one
      > would be wearing if not at court or if the red hakama was kinda like the Guess? jeans
      > of the female Heian nobility and wore them regardless of occasion or location.
      > And yes, that is a terrible analogy. I should be punished. (;

      <dirty old effingvoice>Sure, little missy, I can do that...</dirty old effingvoice>

      > Thanks again.

      Any time!

      Effingham
      --

      Anthony J. Bryant
      Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

      Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
      http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

      Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
      http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
    • Rae Lahman
      They shouldn t come apart just by being washed, unless you re really, really bad at handsewing. I handsew most of my garb, and I always wash it in the machine.
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
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        They shouldn't come apart just by being washed, unless you're really, really bad at handsewing. I handsew most of my garb, and I always wash it in the machine. I haven't had to put too much of it back together yet! :)

        Tsukiko

        > Any reason they can't just be tossed in the washer/dryer? Many silks are fine with
        that (I wash mine and they come out fine.)
        >
        I sewed my pair by hand and mom says that if I throw them in the washer, they'd
        come unsewn. Heh, I washed my kosode yesterday and pretty much soaked my entire
        dormroom... poor poor roommates...




        ---------------------------------
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      • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
        ... *nods* I had gotten Ruri from Dalby s book Tale of Murasaki . But there are a few others I like and would you be so kind as to look over them? - Ayame
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
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          > > Ah, well, back to the drawing board. Well, Ruri is probably legit, right?
          >
          > Actually, it sounds rather modern to me, I'm afraid...

          *nods* I had gotten Ruri from Dalby's book "Tale of Murasaki". But there are a few
          others I like and would you be so kind as to look over them?
          - Ayame
          -Fudeko
          -Kikueko
          I know the "ko" suffix is pretty modern, or at least, perceived to be over used, and
          this paired with the fact that I'm doing Heian, makes me a bit cautious.

          > > But I was mostly wondering what one
          > > would be wearing if not at court or if the red hakama was kinda like the Guess?
          jeans
          > > of the female Heian nobility and wore them regardless of occasion or location.
          > > And yes, that is a terrible analogy. I should be punished. (;
          >
          > <dirty old effingvoice>Sure, little missy, I can do that...</dirty old effingvoice>
          >
          Eeeep!!!!
          Well, guess my search for what non-attendant upper class women wore will continue.
          I mean, not all of the young women of that social class entered court service. I'm sure
          a good portion of them did, how better to get a husband than to ascend the social
          ladder? But the more fun things to make, the better.

          Thanks.
          s.
          E
        • daviem01
          ... You ... Ochikubo Monogatari is a really, really cool story-- I highly recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what s coming to them in a very
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
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            > Does this mean we have a possible replacement for "Kitsune"? ;->
            You
            > know SOMEBODY's going to think it's cool. Heck, look what I picked!
            >
            > Makiwara

            "Ochikubo Monogatari" is a really, really cool story-- I highly
            recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what's coming to
            them in a very Heian way.

            -Aine
          • daviem01
            ... fellow Japanese persona ... screen names ... negatively viewed ... apparently redeemable, ... It seems that rats/mice were not always negatively viewed in
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
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              > My nickname isn't Nezumi; I just have this feeling that if I let
              fellow Japanese persona
              > SCAdians come up with something, my lapses into rat tales and my
              screen names
              > elsewhere would invite the appelation, even though it's kind of a
              negatively viewed
              > animal no matter where you go, though with a few, but not
              apparently redeemable,
              > exceptions.

              It seems that rats/mice were not always negatively viewed in Japan,
              at least not nearly as much as foxes and the like. For one thing,
              there's a year in the cycle named after them; for another, because
              they tended to hang out where the rice (read: food) was, they were
              considered lucky and you sometimes see them as symbols of Inari, the
              god(dess) of rice. (Foxes, which preyed on the rats/mice/small
              animals in the fields and had a similar association.) There are some
              really great period and post-period paintings, netsuke, etc. of rats
              and mice, usually munching on vegetables or sheaves of grain.

              In particular, there are at least two picture scrolls featuring
              anthropomorphic mice as the main characters: "Nezumi no soshi" (The
              Mouse Story) and "Yahyoe nezumi" (Yahyoe the Mouse). The latter can
              be found online at http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-
              e.asp?ID=KL033&FRAME=False -- this particular scroll dates from the
              Edo Period but is apparently a reproduction/retelling of a Muromachi
              period story. It also expresses what I was saying above about rats
              and mice in period: during the course of his adventures, Yahyoe takes
              refuge in a shrine of Inari or Daikoku (not sure). When a lord and
              his wife come to pray, they take Yahyoe to be a messenger of the god
              and show him great kindness, even helping him to get back to his
              family.

              (The funniest part of the scroll is after Yahyoe marries the daughter
              of a field mouse and they have lots of children and live in splendor
              in a temple storehouse. The scroll shows the mice wearing fine
              clothing, playing human games, and eating fine feasts-- and then you
              see what's REALLY happening, at least if humans were to come across
              them: a bunch of tiny little mice crawling in and around old, beat up
              furniture and clothes in the temple storehouse, and nibbling on the
              offerings. Heehee!)


              > Actually, I found some documentation, or at least, a slightly
              secondary source that
              > mentions that in Tokugawa Japan, breeding fancy mice was a hobby
              (and has a
              > picture too.) There was apparently a manual too about how to breed
              mice and a quick
              > web search shows there was a Buddhist monk who had two pet fancy
              mice. Not
              > exactly rats, but rats are really just big mice with better
              personalities (;
              >

              Fascinating!

              -Aine
            • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
              - ... can ... Muromachi ... Ah, yes, I had stumbled along this scroll online a while back. One of the first pictures, where they re all in their finery, was
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
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                ->
                > In particular, there are at least two picture scrolls featuring
                > anthropomorphic mice as the main characters: "Nezumi no soshi" (The
                > Mouse Story) and "Yahyoe nezumi" (Yahyoe the Mouse). The latter
                can
                > be found online at http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-
                > e.asp?ID=KL033&FRAME=False -- this particular scroll dates from the
                > Edo Period but is apparently a reproduction/retelling of a
                Muromachi
                > period story.

                Ah, yes, I had stumbled along this scroll online a while back. One of
                the first pictures,
                where they're all in their finery, was the background/desktop for my
                computer for a
                bit. Cute little story, though I felt sad when poor Yahyoe got lost
                and his wife missed
                him. Yeah, yeah, the story is only two or three paragraphs but the
                poor widdle
                mwousie...
                Actually, I was thinking about this yesterday, pet rats could
                actually ride pretty
                comfortably in wide court sleeves, provided they don't scamper down
                and tumble
                down the robe onto the ground (and you'd probably want to wear a
                yellow robe just in
                case, lol). Mine loved to hang out in the sleeves of regular clothes,
                but she'd probably
                get lost in a huge upper robe. (;
                ------
                | <'3 |
                \ ___/

                s.E
              • Ellen Davis
                ... I don t know if there s any authenticity in this, but in Fudoki by Kij Johnson, the narrator, Princess Harueme, speaks of how she used to raise mice
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 1, 2004
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                  > Actually, I was thinking about this yesterday, pet rats could
                  > actually ride pretty
                  > comfortably in wide court sleeves, provided they don't
                  > scamper down and tumble
                  > down the robe onto the ground (and you'd probably want to
                  > wear a yellow robe just in
                  > case, lol). Mine loved to hang out in the sleeves of regular
                  > clothes, but she'd probably
                  > get lost in a huge upper robe. (;

                  I don't know if there's any authenticity in this, but in "Fudoki" by Kij
                  Johnson, the narrator, Princess Harueme, speaks of how she used to raise
                  mice which would nestle in her sleeves (in her young, wild and crazy days,
                  anyway). Fantastic book.

                  -Aine
                • Solveig
                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! -ko is a very very Heian name suffix which was REVIVED during the Meiji period. -- Your Humble Servant Solveig
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 12, 2004
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                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig! -ko is a very very Heian name suffix which was
                    REVIVED during the Meiji period.
                    --

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar

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                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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                  • Solveig
                    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Mice are fairly auspicious and are a zodiac character. Foxes are not generally auspicious and are not a zodiac
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 12, 2004
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                      Noble Cousins!

                      Greetings from Solveig! Mice are fairly auspicious and are a zodiac character.
                      Foxes are not generally auspicious and are not a zodiac character. Mice may
                      be associated with a good rice harvest. Please, please, please, do not try
                      to impose modern North American fantasy upon medieval Japan.
                      --

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar

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                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... Dontcha love Heian comeuppance? :) Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 28, 2004
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                        daviem01 wrote:


                        > "Ochikubo Monogatari" is a really, really cool story-- I highly
                        > recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what's coming to
                        > them in a very Heian way.

                        Dontcha love Heian comeuppance? :)

                        Effingham

                        --

                        Anthony J. Bryant
                        Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                        Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                        http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                        Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
                        http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
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