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Re: [SCA-JML] A Variety of Inquiries (garb, names, poetry)

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  • Jennifer Kobayashi
    Greetings fellow Carolingian! ... I agree that it looks brown in this picture. Now I don t read japanese so I can only work from english sources, but my
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
      Greetings fellow Carolingian!

      --- Booknerd9@... wrote:

      > Ohaiyo Gozaimasu!
      >

      > 2. The Japanese Costume Museum has a picture I'm
      > interested filed under the Heian
      > list, the "young girl in everyday wear called
      > "kazami"". I am under the impression that
      > court ladies wore the red hakama[2], but if a girl
      > was not a court lady (or just not at
      > court), would she have worn another color of hakama?
      > This girl appears to be wearing
      > a nice brown pair. Can anyone elaborate on this?
      > Thanks.
      > Link:
      > http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/wayou/2.htm

      I agree that it looks brown in this picture. Now I
      don't read japanese so I can only work from english
      sources, but my understanding is that girls wear dark
      reddish hakama.

      From p228 Liza Dalby's _Kimono:_Fashioning_Culture (an
      excellent book BTW) "Women wore them [hakama] in
      bright scarlet pink while unmarried girls wore dark
      purplish red - a reversal of modern Japanese notions
      of age-appropriate colors."

      For examples see:
      http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/12.htm
      http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/13.htm

      My guess is that
      http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/wayou/2.htm

      may actually be a purplish red, but looks brown in
      this picture. I have read of descriptions of other
      colors of hakama for women, but in English
      translations which cannot be entirely trusted.

      Someone else may have more information and/or
      expertise.?

      Anyway, you would certainly be safe with a dark
      purplish or maroon red.

      Good luck. Hope to see you at Falling Leaves.

      Ki no Izumi called Kobayashi
      aka Gwendolyn of Middlemarch or Jennifer Kobayashi




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    • ellen.m.davis@att.net
      ... This looks like a pretty good list, and a lot of the names ARE period (I don t have Lady Solveig s book in front of me to compare, though.) ... Sugawara is
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
        -------------- Original message from Booknerd9@...: --------------

        > Ohaiyo Gozaimasu!
        >
        > Wow, I haven't checked back here in a while; I've been settling back into
        > College Life
        > and only now am I starting to re-establish my old forum routines. Anyway, I have
        > a
        > few questions and comments that have been rattling around in my brain for a
        > while
        > and I hope you all can help.
        >
        > 1. I stumbled along this site a while back which details Japanese names, but
        > focuses
        > on "old" names. Link: http://www.juliancollege.com/names.html
        >

        This looks like a pretty good list, and a lot of the names ARE period (I don't have Lady Solveig's book in front of me to compare, though.)


        > 1a. Even though I am a girl, I think I have an idea for a surname. I've found
        > the tale of
        > Sugawara no Michizane to be incredibly interesting but due to his fame, could
        > one
        > use Sugawara as a surname in the SCA? Also, according to my research, he
        > technically, he comes from the Hijitaka clan which changed it's name to
        > Sugawara, so
        > if using this family branch's name is permitted, would Hijitaka be the name a
        > girl
        > would use?

        Sugawara is definitely doable (we already have a Sugawara-dono in the East Kingdom, so having another distant cousin coming out of the woodwork would be fine!)

        I don't have any personal knowledge of the Hijitaka clan and its relationship to the Sugawaras (I though Sugawara was itself an uji name), but we have "Sugawara Michizane and the Early Heian Court" at home so I'll check. As a woman I believe you would tend to use the uji name in preference to a family name, so you could be Hijitaka Nezumi (to steal your nickname as an example!) Sugawara no Hijitaka Nezumi (<family name> *no* <uji name> <personal name>) is also a proper construction, I believe.

        (I love female names because there are so many options by which a woman may be addressed!)

        > 2. The Japanese Costume Museum has a picture I'm interested filed under the
        > Heian
        > list, the "young girl in everyday wear called "kazami"". I am under the
        > impression that
        > court ladies wore the red hakama[2], but if a girl was not a court lady (or just
        > not at
        > court), would she have worn another color of hakama? This girl appears to be
        > wearing
        > a nice brown pair. Can anyone elaborate on this? Thanks.
        > Link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/wayou/2.htm

        Girls who had not yet "come of age" (I believe the official ceremony was called "mofuku", "putting on the train") wore darker hakama as you see in the picture. I believe they were dyed with suou (sappanwood/"maroon") but I'm not sure. The regular red hakama/nagabakama were dyed with madder, which I also heard was thought to protect against "female complaints".

        > [1]Heh, worse come to worse, I end up nicknamed "Nezumi" due to my affection for
        > rats (I had one as a pet and was quite attached to the little thing).

        Awwww! I like rats although I've never had any. I should start signing my posts as "Tobi-nezumi no kimi" (Flying Rat Lady-- don't ask).

        > [2] And any advice for getting a ginger ale out of a pair? (; I can't *see* any
        > ginger ale,
        > there's no stain, but there was a ginger ale incident that did hit me... hmn.

        Any reason they can't just be tossed in the washer/dryer? Many silks are fine with that (I wash mine and they come out fine.)

        Regards,

        Aine (who needs to get off her patootie and choose a Japanese name, but there are so many options!)
      • Jennifer Kobayashi
        ... Yes or hand wash. Though if they are red, you don t want to wash them with anything else until you are sure they won t run ;-). ... Ki no Izumi called
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
          --- ellen.m.davis@... wrote:

          >
          >
          > -------------- Original message from
          > Booknerd9@...: --------------
          >

          > > [2] And any advice for getting a ginger ale out of
          > a pair? (; I can't *see* any
          > > ginger ale,
          > > there's no stain, but there was a ginger ale
          > incident that did hit me... hmn.
          >
          > Any reason they can't just be tossed in the
          > washer/dryer? Many silks are fine with that (I wash
          > mine and they come out fine.)

          Yes or hand wash. Though if they are red, you don't
          want to wash them with anything else until you are
          sure they won't run ;-).
          >
          Ki no Izumi called Kobayashi

          =====
          - Jennifer



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        • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
          ... Lady Solveig s book in front of me to compare, though.) ... Ah, alright. I don t see Ruri on the list, unfortunately, and I ve become slightly fond of that
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
            > This looks like a pretty good list, and a lot of the names ARE period (I don't have
            Lady Solveig's book in front of me to compare, though.)
            >
            Ah, alright. I don't see Ruri on the list, unfortunately, and I've become slightly fond of
            that name, Ayame is nice too and Kikueko. I like flower names, though I don't see too
            many on the list and I don't think Nadeshiko is period...

            > Sugawara is definitely doable (we already have a Sugawara-dono in the East
            Kingdom, so having another distant cousin coming out of the woodwork would be
            fine!)
            >
            Well, if he doesn't mind a distant cousin running around (:

            > Girls who had not yet "come of age" (I believe the official ceremony was called
            "mofuku", "putting on the train") wore darker hakama as you see in the picture. I
            believe they were dyed with suou (sappanwood/"maroon") but I'm not sure. The
            regular red hakama/nagabakama were dyed with madder, which I also heard was
            thought to protect against "female complaints".
            >
            Ok, so it's an age thing. I was just wondering what women wore when they were not
            in the service of the court. Maybe I should ignore it because it's historical fiction but
            in Dalby's "Tale of Murasaki", our dear Fuji writes about how she needs a red hakama
            when she goes to be in the entourage of the Empress, which makes me wonder what
            she was wearing otherwise.

            > Awwww! I like rats although I've never had any. I should start signing my posts as
            "Tobi-nezumi no kimi" (Flying Rat Lady-- don't ask).
            >
            My nickname isn't Nezumi; I just have this feeling that if I let fellow Japanese persona
            SCAdians come up with something, my lapses into rat tales and my screen names
            elsewhere would invite the appelation, even though it's kind of a negatively viewed
            animal no matter where you go, though with a few, but not apparently redeemable,
            exceptions.
            Actually, I found some documentation, or at least, a slightly secondary source that
            mentions that in Tokugawa Japan, breeding fancy mice was a hobby (and has a
            picture too.) There was apparently a manual too about how to breed mice and a quick
            web search shows there was a Buddhist monk who had two pet fancy mice. Not
            exactly rats, but rats are really just big mice with better personalities (;

            > Any reason they can't just be tossed in the washer/dryer? Many silks are fine with
            that (I wash mine and they come out fine.)
            >
            I sewed my pair by hand and mom says that if I throw them in the washer, they'd
            come unsewn. Heh, I washed my kosode yesterday and pretty much soaked my entire
            dormroom... poor poor roommates...

            Thanks all!
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... I remember the situation well. :) ... I d be really cautious about this. The list is riddled with mistakes beginning with Akamatsu ( red mountain ) (it s
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
              Booknerd9@... wrote:

              > Ohaiyo Gozaimasu!
              >
              > Wow, I haven't checked back here in a while; I've been settling back into College Life
              > and only now am I starting to re-establish my old forum routines. Anyway, I have a
              > few questions and comments that have been rattling around in my brain for a while
              > and I hope you all can help.

              I remember the situation well. :)

              > 1. I stumbled along this site a while back which details Japanese names, but focuses
              > on "old" names. However, I'm not quite sure of how period some of the names are, as
              > there is quite a nice bounty of female names, which I am in need of[1]. I'm attending
              > Falling Leaves next week (hello to any Carolingians out there) and I'd like an idea of
              > something to use or contemplate or discuss with my herald. I have a few that I like,
              > and if no one minds, I can list them in a follow up post. They are from this site I
              > found, so they may or may not be period.
              > Link: http://www.juliancollege.com/names.html

              I'd be really cautious about this. The list is riddled with mistakes beginning
              with "Akamatsu ('red mountain')" (it's Red Pine) down through "-wara ('swamp,'
              'marsh,' some translators render this as the more elegant 'arbor')" (it's a
              FIELD; "swamp" is "numa" or "numachi".) It even has the amusing mistake of
              "Kawakami ('god river')" for a name that is a locative -- kawakami means "above
              the river").

              Also consider: "chujo ('captain,' a very common and generic military-sounding
              title for a male leader, " -- actually, no. It's an effete court title for a
              captain of the palace guard.

              A favorite: "Ochikubo (lit. 'basement room' or 'room under the stairs' -- people
              were often known by the name of the place they lived, rather than by their given
              names. Therefore 'Captain Ochikubo' was the Captain that lived in the room under
              the stairs, as opposed to say, while 'Captain Ichijo' who was the captain that
              lived on Ichijo -- 'first avenue')" -- Although are no Harry Potters in Japan,
              this is the nickname of the heroine in the "Ochikubo Monogatari" -- a fictional
              tale in the Cinderella mode, and comparing the idea of the heroine living in a
              storage hole in the floor (an Ochikubo) and the European heroine's living
              arrangements on the floor in front of the hearth (CINDERella), the comparison is
              obvious. Why anyone would think this would be a suitable name for anyone is
              beyond me.

              I don't know if the people putting it together even speak Japanese. They may
              know enough Japanese to be dangerous (it seems they make a few obvious homophone
              errors -- witness the above kawakami, mistaking "kami (up)" for "kami (god)",
              and their rendition of "Akihito" as "autumn man" when in fact the kanji are
              "aki" (different kanji; either "bright" or "clear") and "hito" (an singular
              reading for the character for "benevolence"), mistaking the basic J-101 words
              for the correct ones.

              I wouldn't trust it, unless you (1) speak enough Japanese to catch the mistakes,
              and (2) had better sources to cross-reference anything it says.


              > 1a. Even though I am a girl, I think I have an idea for a surname. I've found the tale of
              > Sugawara no Michizane to be incredibly interesting but due to his fame, could one
              > use Sugawara as a surname in the SCA? Also, according to my research, he
              > technically, he comes from the Hijitaka clan which changed it's name to Sugawara, so
              > if using this family branch's name is permitted, would Hijitaka be the name a girl
              > would use?

              I love Sugawara. Great name, great family.

              > 2. The Japanese Costume Museum has a picture I'm interested filed under the Heian
              > list, the "young girl in everyday wear called "kazami"". I am under the impression that
              > court ladies wore the red hakama[2], but if a girl was not a court lady (or just not at
              > court), would she have worn another color of hakama? This girl appears to be wearing
              > a nice brown pair. Can anyone elaborate on this? Thanks.
              > Link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/wayou/2.htm

              Minor problem: Unless you're under 13 or so, you probably wouldn't be wearing
              that. That's kids' clothing.


              Effingham

              --

              Anthony J. Bryant
              Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

              Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
              http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

              Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
              http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
            • makiwara_no_yetsuko
              ... wrote: Although are no Harry Potters in Japan, ... a fictional ... living in a ... living ... comparison is ... anyone is ... Does this mean we have a
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@i...>
                wrote:
                Although are no Harry Potters in Japan,
                > this is the nickname of the heroine in the "Ochikubo Monogatari" --
                a fictional
                > tale in the Cinderella mode, and comparing the idea of the heroine
                living in a
                > storage hole in the floor (an Ochikubo) and the European heroine's
                living
                > arrangements on the floor in front of the hearth (CINDERella), the
                comparison is
                > obvious. Why anyone would think this would be a suitable name for
                anyone is
                > beyond me.

                Does this mean we have a possible replacement for "Kitsune"? ;-> You
                know SOMEBODY's going to think it's cool. Heck, look what I picked!

                Makiwara
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... Yes, but you wear it well. :) Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
                  makiwara_no_yetsuko wrote:

                  > Does this mean we have a possible replacement for "Kitsune"? ;-> You
                  > know SOMEBODY's going to think it's cool. Heck, look what I picked!

                  Yes, but you wear it well. :)

                  Effingham

                  --

                  Anthony J. Bryant
                  Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                  Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                  http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                  Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
                  http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
                • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
                  ... Ah, well, back to the drawing board. Well, Ruri is probably legit, right? ... Ah, thanks. The mannequin has decieved me. But I was mostly wondering what
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
                    >
                    > I'd be really cautious about this. The list is riddled with mistake.....
                    > I wouldn't trust it, unless you (1) speak enough Japanese to catch the mistakes,
                    > and (2) had better sources to cross-reference anything it says.

                    Ah, well, back to the drawing board. Well, Ruri is probably legit, right?

                    > Minor problem: Unless you're under 13 or so, you probably wouldn't be wearing
                    > that. That's kids' clothing.

                    Ah, thanks. The mannequin has decieved me. But I was mostly wondering what one
                    would be wearing if not at court or if the red hakama was kinda like the Guess? jeans
                    of the female Heian nobility and wore them regardless of occasion or location.
                    And yes, that is a terrible analogy. I should be punished. (;

                    Thanks again.
                    E
                  • Anthony J. Bryant
                    ... Actually, it sounds rather modern to me, I m afraid... ... There are a couple of giveaways on the mannequin, but you have to be tuned to that sort of
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 30, 2004
                      Booknerd9@... wrote:

                      >>I'd be really cautious about this. The list is riddled with mistake.....
                      >>I wouldn't trust it, unless you (1) speak enough Japanese to catch the mistakes,
                      >>and (2) had better sources to cross-reference anything it says.
                      >
                      >
                      > Ah, well, back to the drawing board. Well, Ruri is probably legit, right?

                      Actually, it sounds rather modern to me, I'm afraid...

                      >>Minor problem: Unless you're under 13 or so, you probably wouldn't be wearing
                      >>that. That's kids' clothing.
                      >
                      >
                      > Ah, thanks. The mannequin has decieved me.

                      There are a couple of giveaways on the mannequin, but you have to be tuned to
                      that sort of thing. For one, the hair isn't dressed as an adult's, nor as long.
                      For another, the outfit, based on the cut/garment of a hitatare, is HUGE on the
                      lil' lady. ;)

                      > But I was mostly wondering what one
                      > would be wearing if not at court or if the red hakama was kinda like the Guess? jeans
                      > of the female Heian nobility and wore them regardless of occasion or location.
                      > And yes, that is a terrible analogy. I should be punished. (;

                      <dirty old effingvoice>Sure, little missy, I can do that...</dirty old effingvoice>

                      > Thanks again.

                      Any time!

                      Effingham
                      --

                      Anthony J. Bryant
                      Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                      Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                      http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                      Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
                      http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
                    • Rae Lahman
                      They shouldn t come apart just by being washed, unless you re really, really bad at handsewing. I handsew most of my garb, and I always wash it in the machine.
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 1 5:56 AM
                        They shouldn't come apart just by being washed, unless you're really, really bad at handsewing. I handsew most of my garb, and I always wash it in the machine. I haven't had to put too much of it back together yet! :)

                        Tsukiko

                        > Any reason they can't just be tossed in the washer/dryer? Many silks are fine with
                        that (I wash mine and they come out fine.)
                        >
                        I sewed my pair by hand and mom says that if I throw them in the washer, they'd
                        come unsewn. Heh, I washed my kosode yesterday and pretty much soaked my entire
                        dormroom... poor poor roommates...




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                      • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
                        ... *nods* I had gotten Ruri from Dalby s book Tale of Murasaki . But there are a few others I like and would you be so kind as to look over them? - Ayame
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 1 11:31 AM
                          > > Ah, well, back to the drawing board. Well, Ruri is probably legit, right?
                          >
                          > Actually, it sounds rather modern to me, I'm afraid...

                          *nods* I had gotten Ruri from Dalby's book "Tale of Murasaki". But there are a few
                          others I like and would you be so kind as to look over them?
                          - Ayame
                          -Fudeko
                          -Kikueko
                          I know the "ko" suffix is pretty modern, or at least, perceived to be over used, and
                          this paired with the fact that I'm doing Heian, makes me a bit cautious.

                          > > But I was mostly wondering what one
                          > > would be wearing if not at court or if the red hakama was kinda like the Guess?
                          jeans
                          > > of the female Heian nobility and wore them regardless of occasion or location.
                          > > And yes, that is a terrible analogy. I should be punished. (;
                          >
                          > <dirty old effingvoice>Sure, little missy, I can do that...</dirty old effingvoice>
                          >
                          Eeeep!!!!
                          Well, guess my search for what non-attendant upper class women wore will continue.
                          I mean, not all of the young women of that social class entered court service. I'm sure
                          a good portion of them did, how better to get a husband than to ascend the social
                          ladder? But the more fun things to make, the better.

                          Thanks.
                          s.
                          E
                        • daviem01
                          ... You ... Ochikubo Monogatari is a really, really cool story-- I highly recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what s coming to them in a very
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 1 3:49 PM
                            > Does this mean we have a possible replacement for "Kitsune"? ;->
                            You
                            > know SOMEBODY's going to think it's cool. Heck, look what I picked!
                            >
                            > Makiwara

                            "Ochikubo Monogatari" is a really, really cool story-- I highly
                            recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what's coming to
                            them in a very Heian way.

                            -Aine
                          • daviem01
                            ... fellow Japanese persona ... screen names ... negatively viewed ... apparently redeemable, ... It seems that rats/mice were not always negatively viewed in
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 1 4:06 PM
                              > My nickname isn't Nezumi; I just have this feeling that if I let
                              fellow Japanese persona
                              > SCAdians come up with something, my lapses into rat tales and my
                              screen names
                              > elsewhere would invite the appelation, even though it's kind of a
                              negatively viewed
                              > animal no matter where you go, though with a few, but not
                              apparently redeemable,
                              > exceptions.

                              It seems that rats/mice were not always negatively viewed in Japan,
                              at least not nearly as much as foxes and the like. For one thing,
                              there's a year in the cycle named after them; for another, because
                              they tended to hang out where the rice (read: food) was, they were
                              considered lucky and you sometimes see them as symbols of Inari, the
                              god(dess) of rice. (Foxes, which preyed on the rats/mice/small
                              animals in the fields and had a similar association.) There are some
                              really great period and post-period paintings, netsuke, etc. of rats
                              and mice, usually munching on vegetables or sheaves of grain.

                              In particular, there are at least two picture scrolls featuring
                              anthropomorphic mice as the main characters: "Nezumi no soshi" (The
                              Mouse Story) and "Yahyoe nezumi" (Yahyoe the Mouse). The latter can
                              be found online at http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-
                              e.asp?ID=KL033&FRAME=False -- this particular scroll dates from the
                              Edo Period but is apparently a reproduction/retelling of a Muromachi
                              period story. It also expresses what I was saying above about rats
                              and mice in period: during the course of his adventures, Yahyoe takes
                              refuge in a shrine of Inari or Daikoku (not sure). When a lord and
                              his wife come to pray, they take Yahyoe to be a messenger of the god
                              and show him great kindness, even helping him to get back to his
                              family.

                              (The funniest part of the scroll is after Yahyoe marries the daughter
                              of a field mouse and they have lots of children and live in splendor
                              in a temple storehouse. The scroll shows the mice wearing fine
                              clothing, playing human games, and eating fine feasts-- and then you
                              see what's REALLY happening, at least if humans were to come across
                              them: a bunch of tiny little mice crawling in and around old, beat up
                              furniture and clothes in the temple storehouse, and nibbling on the
                              offerings. Heehee!)


                              > Actually, I found some documentation, or at least, a slightly
                              secondary source that
                              > mentions that in Tokugawa Japan, breeding fancy mice was a hobby
                              (and has a
                              > picture too.) There was apparently a manual too about how to breed
                              mice and a quick
                              > web search shows there was a Buddhist monk who had two pet fancy
                              mice. Not
                              > exactly rats, but rats are really just big mice with better
                              personalities (;
                              >

                              Fascinating!

                              -Aine
                            • Booknerd9@yahoo.com
                              - ... can ... Muromachi ... Ah, yes, I had stumbled along this scroll online a while back. One of the first pictures, where they re all in their finery, was
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 1 4:21 PM
                                ->
                                > In particular, there are at least two picture scrolls featuring
                                > anthropomorphic mice as the main characters: "Nezumi no soshi" (The
                                > Mouse Story) and "Yahyoe nezumi" (Yahyoe the Mouse). The latter
                                can
                                > be found online at http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-
                                > e.asp?ID=KL033&FRAME=False -- this particular scroll dates from the
                                > Edo Period but is apparently a reproduction/retelling of a
                                Muromachi
                                > period story.

                                Ah, yes, I had stumbled along this scroll online a while back. One of
                                the first pictures,
                                where they're all in their finery, was the background/desktop for my
                                computer for a
                                bit. Cute little story, though I felt sad when poor Yahyoe got lost
                                and his wife missed
                                him. Yeah, yeah, the story is only two or three paragraphs but the
                                poor widdle
                                mwousie...
                                Actually, I was thinking about this yesterday, pet rats could
                                actually ride pretty
                                comfortably in wide court sleeves, provided they don't scamper down
                                and tumble
                                down the robe onto the ground (and you'd probably want to wear a
                                yellow robe just in
                                case, lol). Mine loved to hang out in the sleeves of regular clothes,
                                but she'd probably
                                get lost in a huge upper robe. (;
                                ------
                                | <'3 |
                                \ ___/

                                s.E
                              • Ellen Davis
                                ... I don t know if there s any authenticity in this, but in Fudoki by Kij Johnson, the narrator, Princess Harueme, speaks of how she used to raise mice
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 1 7:27 PM
                                  > Actually, I was thinking about this yesterday, pet rats could
                                  > actually ride pretty
                                  > comfortably in wide court sleeves, provided they don't
                                  > scamper down and tumble
                                  > down the robe onto the ground (and you'd probably want to
                                  > wear a yellow robe just in
                                  > case, lol). Mine loved to hang out in the sleeves of regular
                                  > clothes, but she'd probably
                                  > get lost in a huge upper robe. (;

                                  I don't know if there's any authenticity in this, but in "Fudoki" by Kij
                                  Johnson, the narrator, Princess Harueme, speaks of how she used to raise
                                  mice which would nestle in her sleeves (in her young, wild and crazy days,
                                  anyway). Fantastic book.

                                  -Aine
                                • Solveig
                                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! -ko is a very very Heian name suffix which was REVIVED during the Meiji period. -- Your Humble Servant Solveig
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 12 5:52 PM
                                    Noble Cousin!

                                    Greetings from Solveig! -ko is a very very Heian name suffix which was
                                    REVIVED during the Meiji period.
                                    --

                                    Your Humble Servant
                                    Solveig Throndardottir
                                    Amateur Scholar

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                                  • Solveig
                                    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Mice are fairly auspicious and are a zodiac character. Foxes are not generally auspicious and are not a zodiac
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 12 6:12 PM
                                      Noble Cousins!

                                      Greetings from Solveig! Mice are fairly auspicious and are a zodiac character.
                                      Foxes are not generally auspicious and are not a zodiac character. Mice may
                                      be associated with a good rice harvest. Please, please, please, do not try
                                      to impose modern North American fantasy upon medieval Japan.
                                      --

                                      Your Humble Servant
                                      Solveig Throndardottir
                                      Amateur Scholar

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                                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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                                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                                      ... Dontcha love Heian comeuppance? :) Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Oct 28 6:05 PM
                                        daviem01 wrote:


                                        > "Ochikubo Monogatari" is a really, really cool story-- I highly
                                        > recommend it. The evil relatives definitely get what's coming to
                                        > them in a very Heian way.

                                        Dontcha love Heian comeuppance? :)

                                        Effingham

                                        --

                                        Anthony J. Bryant
                                        Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                                        Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                                        http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                                        Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
                                        http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
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