Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Need advice
- On Aug 2, 2004, at 11:52 PM, John wrote:
> Tatsuzou-DonoIf there is a fully legal 16-or-thicker ga steel helmet underneath, you
> The shikoro is totally cosmetic in the helm I have been working on. I
> have a 14 gauge solid skirt under where it will go.
can cosmetically add to it however you like, though you should be
careful if it reduces your ability to recognize good blows.
> The leather I am thinking of using is soft enough to bounce backI'd be doubly careful of blow calibration in this case: if, by its
> from shots and strong enough to hold shape as long as it isnt
> actually "folded".
flexing, it absorbs a lot of the blow without transferring it to the
helmet, you could easily be ignoring good blows and not know it,
because you'd never feel them; I used to have a similar problem with my
first haidate design, which got me a stern talking-to by a more
experienced fighter, back in the day.
> Metal, if creased would have to be removed, then hammered back intoI've been fighting in kabuto with 16 ga steel shikoro for almost 20
years, and I've never had it crease (though fukigaeshi can get pretty
well flattened). My first kabuto (which I fought in for 5 years or so)
had a solid riveted shikoro (with purely decorative lacing), and while
the bowl (a 16 ga spun bowl) had to be pounded out twice, the shikoro
never got a dent. And my two suceeding kabuto, both with regular
'floating' shikoro, have never gotten creased either.
> Plus the big thing I am thinking about is catching a shot,Again, I've never had a shikoro get ripped, though through regular wear
> the sword snagging on a lame and ripping the whole thing apart.
and tear I do re-lace it about once every 18 months when I take it
apart to repaint it (FYI, between regular practices and fighting
events, I'm in armor probably about 100 times a year).
> Are there historical examples of solid shikoro's?None that I'm aware of; there are chinese helmets which have things
that are like shikoro which are solid, though.
I think your fears about if snagging and ripping apart being the basis
for wanting to make it 'solid' are at least groundless, and quite
possibly just compounding the potential problem; I believe you'd be
much better off just making a regular shikoro out of a rigid material
than a 'solid' shikoro out of a flexible material.
> ThanksSir Koredono
> Odawara Taro Yoshinobu
AEthelmearc Earl Marshal
- --- In email@example.com, "John" <j_tygart@h...> wrote:
> I have an idea, that I know will sound horrid, but I think it willto
> work. I am thinking of making a shikoro out of leather, no biggie
> there, but instead of several overlapping lames, I am thinking of
> one solid lame.
> Here is my logic, at fighter practice Sunday, i took a shot right
> my collarbone that would have hit the shikoro if I were waring aI used to wear a kabuto with metal shikkoro and I did have a problem
> kabuto. In hitting one of the lames, I could easily see it snagging
> on one lame and ripping the whole thing apart.
> So I am thinking one solid lame, maybe tooled to look like several
> overlapping lames, and laced like it was several lames, but it isnt.
> Is this acceptable?
> thanks in advance
> Odawara Karo Yoshinobu
with the lames shearing through the lacing along the front edge, but
I think that was mostly due to the fact that there were only 5 sets
of lacing holes in it, leaving around 4 inches between the suspension
points. I think with lacing set more closely together as it should be
and the edges of the lacing holes smoothed out there would be no
problem at all.
I have been wearing kabuto with metal shikoro since '97. As Saito
suggested, putting the lacing holes closer together do help lengthen
the life of the lacing. Like Saito, the only place the lacing frayed
or broke was in the front, but I only had that happen twice in 7
years. The lacing that broke usually snapped after becoming frayed,
and even after it broke, because the other lacing was so close (about
1 1/2" to 2" apart, it was no big deal. It wasn't enough for me to
have to stop fighting for the day, and because it was only one piece
of lacing, it only took about 5 minutes to repair...
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Scott" <sdsweetland@c...> wrote:
> --- In email@example.com, "John" <j_tygart@h...> wrote:
> > I have an idea, that I know will sound horrid, but I think it
> > work. I am thinking of making a shikoro out of leather, no biggie
> > there, but instead of several overlapping lames, I am thinking of
> > one solid lame.
> > Here is my logic, at fighter practice Sunday, i took a shot right
> > my collarbone that would have hit the shikoro if I were waring a
> > kabuto. In hitting one of the lames, I could easily see it
> > on one lame and ripping the whole thing apart.
> > So I am thinking one solid lame, maybe tooled to look like
> > overlapping lames, and laced like it was several lames, but it
> > Is this acceptable?
> > thanks in advance
> > Odawara Karo Yoshinobu
> I used to wear a kabuto with metal shikkoro and I did have a
> with the lames shearing through the lacing along the front edge,
> I think that was mostly due to the fact that there were only 5 sets
> of lacing holes in it, leaving around 4 inches between the
> points. I think with lacing set more closely together as it should
> and the edges of the lacing holes smoothed out there would be no
> problem at all.
> The jinbaori I have seen have "lapels," and are slitThis is what people generally think of when you say "jinbaori":
> part way up the back (makes sense for mounted samurai),
> while I think of haori as having a kimon-oid collar/lapel
> arrangement and not having an open back.
It became pretty much the standard through the Edo period, so it's the commonly
envisioned "historical" model today.
However, there are a dozen or so different styles. See:
Anthony J. Bryant
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
- So what is significantly different between this (a jinbaori):
and this (a dobuku)?: