Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Need advice

Expand Messages
  • John
    Tatsuzou-Dono The shikoro is totally cosmetic in the helm I have been working on.I have a 14 gauge solid skirt under where it will go. The leather I am
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Tatsuzou-Dono
      The shikoro is totally cosmetic in the helm I have been working on.I
      have a 14 gauge solid skirt under where it will go.

      The leather I am thinking of using is soft enough to bounce back
      from shots and strong enough to hold shape as long as it isnt
      actually "folded". Metal, if creased would have to be removed,then
      hammered back into shape.

      Plus the big thing I am thinking about is catching a shot,
      the sword snagging on a lame and ripping the whole thing apart.

      Are there historical examples of solid shikoro's?

      Thanks
      Odawara Taro Yoshinobu
    • Donald Luby
      ... If there is a fully legal 16-or-thicker ga steel helmet underneath, you can cosmetically add to it however you like, though you should be careful if it
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 2, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        On Aug 2, 2004, at 11:52 PM, John wrote:

        > Tatsuzou-Dono
        > The shikoro is totally cosmetic in the helm I have been working on. I
        > have a 14 gauge solid skirt under where it will go.

        If there is a fully legal 16-or-thicker ga steel helmet underneath, you
        can cosmetically add to it however you like, though you should be
        careful if it reduces your ability to recognize good blows.

        > The leather I am thinking of using is soft enough to bounce back
        > from shots and strong enough to hold shape as long as it isnt
        > actually "folded".

        I'd be doubly careful of blow calibration in this case: if, by its
        flexing, it absorbs a lot of the blow without transferring it to the
        helmet, you could easily be ignoring good blows and not know it,
        because you'd never feel them; I used to have a similar problem with my
        first haidate design, which got me a stern talking-to by a more
        experienced fighter, back in the day.

        > Metal, if creased would have to be removed, then hammered back into
        > shape.

        I've been fighting in kabuto with 16 ga steel shikoro for almost 20
        years, and I've never had it crease (though fukigaeshi can get pretty
        well flattened). My first kabuto (which I fought in for 5 years or so)
        had a solid riveted shikoro (with purely decorative lacing), and while
        the bowl (a 16 ga spun bowl) had to be pounded out twice, the shikoro
        never got a dent. And my two suceeding kabuto, both with regular
        'floating' shikoro, have never gotten creased either.

        > Plus the big thing I am thinking about is catching a shot,
        > the sword snagging on a lame and ripping the whole thing apart.

        Again, I've never had a shikoro get ripped, though through regular wear
        and tear I do re-lace it about once every 18 months when I take it
        apart to repaint it (FYI, between regular practices and fighting
        events, I'm in armor probably about 100 times a year).

        > Are there historical examples of solid shikoro's?

        None that I'm aware of; there are chinese helmets which have things
        that are like shikoro which are solid, though.

        I think your fears about if snagging and ripping apart being the basis
        for wanting to make it 'solid' are at least groundless, and quite
        possibly just compounding the potential problem; I believe you'd be
        much better off just making a regular shikoro out of a rigid material
        than a 'solid' shikoro out of a flexible material.

        > Thanks
        > Odawara Taro Yoshinobu


        Sir Koredono
        AEthelmearc Earl Marshal
      • Scott
        ... to ... I used to wear a kabuto with metal shikkoro and I did have a problem with the lames shearing through the lacing along the front edge, but I think
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 3, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "John" <j_tygart@h...> wrote:
          > I have an idea, that I know will sound horrid, but I think it will
          > work. I am thinking of making a shikoro out of leather, no biggie
          > there, but instead of several overlapping lames, I am thinking of
          > one solid lame.
          >
          > Here is my logic, at fighter practice Sunday, i took a shot right
          to
          > my collarbone that would have hit the shikoro if I were waring a
          > kabuto. In hitting one of the lames, I could easily see it snagging
          > on one lame and ripping the whole thing apart.
          >
          > So I am thinking one solid lame, maybe tooled to look like several
          > overlapping lames, and laced like it was several lames, but it isnt.
          >
          > Is this acceptable?
          >
          > thanks in advance
          > Odawara Karo Yoshinobu

          I used to wear a kabuto with metal shikkoro and I did have a problem
          with the lames shearing through the lacing along the front edge, but
          I think that was mostly due to the fact that there were only 5 sets
          of lacing holes in it, leaving around 4 inches between the suspension
          points. I think with lacing set more closely together as it should be
          and the edges of the lacing holes smoothed out there would be no
          problem at all.

          Saito
        • raijin31
          Greetings!! I have been wearing kabuto with metal shikoro since 97. As Saito suggested, putting the lacing holes closer together do help lengthen the life of
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 3, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Greetings!!

            I have been wearing kabuto with metal shikoro since '97. As Saito
            suggested, putting the lacing holes closer together do help lengthen
            the life of the lacing. Like Saito, the only place the lacing frayed
            or broke was in the front, but I only had that happen twice in 7
            years. The lacing that broke usually snapped after becoming frayed,
            and even after it broke, because the other lacing was so close (about
            1 1/2" to 2" apart, it was no big deal. It wasn't enough for me to
            have to stop fighting for the day, and because it was only one piece
            of lacing, it only took about 5 minutes to repair...

            Otoshi

            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <sdsweetland@c...> wrote:
            > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "John" <j_tygart@h...> wrote:
            > > I have an idea, that I know will sound horrid, but I think it
            will
            > > work. I am thinking of making a shikoro out of leather, no biggie
            > > there, but instead of several overlapping lames, I am thinking of
            > > one solid lame.
            > >
            > > Here is my logic, at fighter practice Sunday, i took a shot right
            > to
            > > my collarbone that would have hit the shikoro if I were waring a
            > > kabuto. In hitting one of the lames, I could easily see it
            snagging
            > > on one lame and ripping the whole thing apart.
            > >
            > > So I am thinking one solid lame, maybe tooled to look like
            several
            > > overlapping lames, and laced like it was several lames, but it
            isnt.
            > >
            > > Is this acceptable?
            > >
            > > thanks in advance
            > > Odawara Karo Yoshinobu
            >
            > I used to wear a kabuto with metal shikkoro and I did have a
            problem
            > with the lames shearing through the lacing along the front edge,
            but
            > I think that was mostly due to the fact that there were only 5 sets
            > of lacing holes in it, leaving around 4 inches between the
            suspension
            > points. I think with lacing set more closely together as it should
            be
            > and the edges of the lacing holes smoothed out there would be no
            > problem at all.
            >
            > Saito
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... This is what people generally think of when you say jinbaori : http://www.yusoku.com/top-jinbaori.jpg It became pretty much the standard through the Edo
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 3, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              > The jinbaori I have seen have "lapels," and are slit
              > part way up the back (makes sense for mounted samurai),
              > while I think of haori as having a kimon-oid collar/lapel
              > arrangement and not having an open back.

              This is what people generally think of when you say "jinbaori":
              http://www.yusoku.com/top-jinbaori.jpg

              It became pretty much the standard through the Edo period, so it's the commonly
              envisioned "historical" model today.

              However, there are a dozen or so different styles. See:
              http://www.mmwhida.jp/beebo/hie/m13.htm
              http://www.city.chikushino.fukuoka.jp/furusato/sanpo02.htm
              http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/suigun/jinbaori.jpg
              http://lian.webup.co.jp/tanaka/textile/zuhan/00013/00013.jpg
              http://www.shirakawa.ne.jp/~rekimin/siri2/jin.jpg
              http://www.shirakawa.ne.jp/~rekimin/siri2/jin2.jpg
              http://vase02.hp.infoseek.co.jp/mego/image/aobam03.jpg
              http://www.iwate-np.co.jp/news/y2003/m03/d21/j200303213.jpg
              http://www.town.sanada.nagano.jp/archive/03media/gif/zinbaori.jpg

              Effingham
              --

              Anthony J. Bryant
              Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

              Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
              http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

              Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
              http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
            • Otagiri Tatsuzou
              So what is significantly different between this (a jinbaori): http://vase02.hp.infoseek.co.jp/mego/image/aobam03.jpg and this (a dobuku)?:
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 3, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                So what is significantly different between this (a jinbaori):
                http://vase02.hp.infoseek.co.jp/mego/image/aobam03.jpg

                and this (a dobuku)?:
                http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/graphics/garbphotos/dobuku1L.jpg


                Otagiri
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.