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Things I've been dying to know..

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  • Scott
    When I started in the SCA I was one of four Japanese personas in the whole of the area which would one day become the principality of Northshield. The closest
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 31, 2004
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      When I started in the SCA I was one of four Japanese personas in the
      whole of the area which would one day become the principality of
      Northshield. The closest one to me was 200 miles away. Needless to
      say I wish I had had this list serve back then. :)

      Anyway I have done what I could in the last 17 years to research pre-
      Edo Japan on my own, but there have been things I could never find
      answers to and I just realized that there HAS to be people here who
      know.

      So I apologise if these things have been asked before (tried using
      the search function but it is a bit cumbersome and I came up with
      nothing) and I thank you in advance for sharing your wisdom! :)

      Are sleeves which have the bottoms of the front openings sewn up to
      form a pocket period?

      Are koshi-ita period? (if not, all 5 of my hakama need surgery lol)

      why do some samurai in movies have shaved foreheads and some don't?
      Does it signify anything?

      What period is the movie "Ran" set in? (if any)

      Some of the men in "Ran" appear to be wearing one-piece
      Hitatare/Hakama things. Are they really one-piece and if so what are
      they called?

      I'm sure there have been others over the years but that's all I can
      remember atm. hehe

      Domo Arigato Gozaimasu!!
      Saito
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... No. Period kosode sleeves are curved, not square. The end of the curve is the mouth of the sleeve. ... Not that I ve been able to document. The surviving
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 31, 2004
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        Scott wrote:


        > Are sleeves which have the bottoms of the front openings sewn up to
        > form a pocket period?

        No. Period kosode sleeves are curved, not square. The end of the curve is the
        mouth of the sleeve.

        > Are koshi-ita period? (if not, all 5 of my hakama need surgery lol)

        Not that I've been able to document. The surviving period hakama that I've seen
        (at least those that come readily to mind) don't have them.

        > why do some samurai in movies have shaved foreheads and some don't?
        > Does it signify anything?

        Why do some people part their hair on the left, some on the right, and some not
        at all?

        > What period is the movie "Ran" set in? (if any)

        Sengoku. Most likely the 1560s or 70s -- but judging from the armour, I'd lean
        toward a later date of the last part of the 70s.

        > Some of the men in "Ran" appear to be wearing one-piece
        > Hitatare/Hakama things. Are they really one-piece and if so what are
        > they called?

        It's not one piece. Look closer. Look at them from the side and you'll see the
        top half of the outfit (the hitatare) tucked into the hakama, because the back
        panel sometimes shows in the side opening of the hakama.


        Efingham

        --

        Anthony J. Bryant
        Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

        Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
        http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

        Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
        http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
      • Scott
        Thank you very much for your prompt and succinct answers, Effingham sensei!
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 31, 2004
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          Thank you very much for your prompt and succinct answers, Effingham
          sensei!
        • Solveig
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Pretty much no. ... Pretty much no. ... The ones who don t have shaven forlocks are either young boys or disreputable
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 2 9:42 PM
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig!

            >Are sleeves which have the bottoms of the front openings sewn up to
            >form a pocket period?

            Pretty much no.

            >Are koshi-ita period? (if not, all 5 of my hakama need surgery lol)

            Pretty much no.

            >why do some samurai in movies have shaved foreheads and some don't?
            >Does it signify anything?

            The ones who don't have shaven forlocks are either young boys or
            disreputable rakes.

            >What period is the movie "Ran" set in? (if any)

            It's King Lear. However, the armour and castles and that sort of thing
            appear to be drawn from the Sengoku Period. However, someone more
            interested in such questions can answer this one much more reliably than
            I.

            >Some of the men in "Ran" appear to be wearing one-piece
            >Hitatare/Hakama things. Are they really one-piece and if so what are
            >they called?

            It's called matching fabric.
            --

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
            | the trash by my email filters. |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          • Scott
            ... thing ... than ... are ... Thank you for your answers! I think what always threw me off about Ran was that even though the armor was obviously sengoku,
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 3 12:08 AM
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig <nostrand@a...> wrote:
              > Noble Cousin!
              >
              > Greetings from Solveig!
              >
              > >Are sleeves which have the bottoms of the front openings sewn up to
              > >form a pocket period?
              >
              > Pretty much no.
              >
              > >Are koshi-ita period? (if not, all 5 of my hakama need surgery lol)
              >
              > Pretty much no.
              >
              > >why do some samurai in movies have shaved foreheads and some don't?
              > >Does it signify anything?
              >
              > The ones who don't have shaven forlocks are either young boys or
              > disreputable rakes.
              >
              > >What period is the movie "Ran" set in? (if any)
              >
              > It's King Lear. However, the armour and castles and that sort of
              thing
              > appear to be drawn from the Sengoku Period. However, someone more
              > interested in such questions can answer this one much more reliably
              than
              > I.
              >
              > >Some of the men in "Ran" appear to be wearing one-piece
              > >Hitatare/Hakama things. Are they really one-piece and if so what
              are
              > >they called?
              >
              > It's called matching fabric.
              > --
              >
              > Your Humble Servant
              > Solveig Throndardottir
              > Amateur Scholar


              Thank you for your answers!

              I think what always threw me off about "Ran" was that even though the
              armor was obviously sengoku, the Great lord and his peers/sons all
              wore tachis, which I always heard were used much earlier. Although
              upon reviewing it recently I did notice all the other samurai wore
              later period katana/tanto daisho.

              Saito
            • Otagiri Tatsuzou
              ... Saito-dono If you look through the portraits of various lords of the sengoku and at the battle scrolls, you will see that men of rank wore tachi more
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 3 6:21 AM
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                > I think what always threw me off about "Ran" was that even though the
                > armor was obviously sengoku, the Great lord and his peers/sons all
                > wore tachis, which I always heard were used much earlier. Although
                > upon reviewing it recently I did notice all the other samurai wore
                > later period katana/tanto daisho.
                >

                Saito-dono

                If you look through the portraits of various lords of the sengoku and
                at the battle scrolls, you will see that men of rank wore tachi more
                frequently than katana. While wearing a katana/wakizashi did displace
                wearing a tachi/uchi-gatana, it appears to me that the style worked
                its way from the bottom-up and the katana did not completly displace
                the tachi until after Sekigahara.

                Otagiri
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... That didn t even make me blink. Tachi are cavalry sabres and there is no reason for the either the great lord or his
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 3 2:48 PM
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                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig!

                  >I think what always threw me off about "Ran" was that even though the
                  >armor was obviously sengoku, the Great lord and his peers/sons all
                  >wore tachis, which I always heard were used much earlier. Although
                  >upon reviewing it recently I did notice all the other samurai wore
                  >later period katana/tanto daisho.

                  That didn't even make me blink. Tachi are cavalry sabres and there is
                  no reason for the either the great lord or his generically named sons
                  to have taken up wearing cut down swords. If anything, a tachi as an
                  older aristocratic weapon emphasizes the presumed antiquity and general
                  signifance of the domain of the central character. Now if the junior
                  bushi all were running around with tachi and the big wigs had cut down
                  swords, then that would be really weird. You do occasionally see a
                  low ranking bushi with a long sword in Japanese films. The background
                  story for which is generally that he stole it from someone or had it
                  by some other rather interesting means.

                  Actually, tachi never completely dissappeared. The thing to remember
                  about them is that they are cavalry sabres and are longer than the
                  swords worn by infantry. The reason that high ranking buke cut down
                  their swords during the Tokugawa period was for convenience while
                  walking around edo. Basically, they had to wear a sword to the office
                  and a tachi just didn't make it as an accessory for basic business
                  day wear.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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