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Samurai with Shield

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  • Mike & Jackie
    Maybe someone can help me with this? I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield,
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
      Maybe someone can help me with this?

      I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my
      Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left handed,
      right handed, and both hands. if that is all true (and I hope it is)
      I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a Japanese Persona
      had to prove that they can fight with a shield?

      2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese shields. I have
      rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard time looking..

      Thanks

      Mike
    • Tim adams
      I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left handed, right handed, and both
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
        I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left handed, right handed, and both hands. if that is all true (and I hope it is) I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a Japanese Persona
        had to prove that they can fight with a shield?

        most kingdoms make you prove you can fight sword and
        shield as the default weapon form...
        This is a requirement, just remember you do not have to be any good at sword and shield, just be safe.

        2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese shields. I have rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard time looking..

        good question.. I only remeber seeing braced ground shields used by archers in siegecraft type situations.
        I just used a heater and got it done, and tossed it away.

        Tetsuki



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      • Mike Faragher
        Hi, Mike, it s Mike. ;) Sorry, had to do that. Well, Japanese shields are a no-no. The shield most commonly seen was actually an arrow blocker used from
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
          Hi, Mike, it's Mike. ;) Sorry, had to do that.

          Well, Japanese shields are a no-no. The "shield" most commonly seen was actually an arrow blocker used from 1300-1330. The device was dropped when entering close combat. Thus, sorry, not authentic.

          That being said, you'll need to use one. The Middle Kingdom, for instance (it may be SCA-wide) requires your original authorization be in sword and shield. Period. It's the easiest way to fight (so they say) and it gives everyone a common ground.

          I'd suggest finding a shield to borrow and having at it. They're not very intuitive (at least closed-form heater, as I'm trying to learn) so you need at least some work on it.

          Good luck on your authorization! Tell us how it goes!

          Mike

          Mike & Jackie <warrior02@...> wrote:
          Maybe someone can help me with this?

          I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my
          Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left handed,
          right handed, and both hands. if that is all true (and I hope it is)
          I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a Japanese Persona
          had to prove that they can fight with a shield?

          2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese shields. I have
          rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard time looking..

          Thanks

          Mike




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        • ERIC ASPLIND
          You haven t seen period Japanese military using hand-held shields due to the fact they didnt. In-combat personal defense was performed using whatever weapon
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
            You haven't seen period Japanese military using
            hand-held shields due to the fact they didnt.
            In-combat personal defense was performed using
            whatever weapon was in the combatant's hand at the
            time(i.e. daisho, naginata, yari, etc.).
            If your marshal is telling you to become
            experienced with hand shields, it's probably because
            he wants you to know what you'll be up against in
            future battles, a good strategy. ;)

            --- Mike & Jackie <warrior02@...> wrote:
            > Maybe someone can help me with this?
            >
            > I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I
            > was told by my
            > Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a
            > shield, left handed,
            > right handed, and both hands. if that is all true
            > (and I hope it is)
            > I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a
            > Japanese Persona
            > had to prove that they can fight with a shield?
            >
            > 2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese
            > shields. I have
            > rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard
            > time looking..
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > Mike
            >
            >
            >
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          • sigrune@aol.com
            Afternoon Mike and Mike.... it s yet another Mike. Check with your local (kingdom) marshalls, (or the kingdom marshall page/rules online if you do not want to
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
              Afternoon Mike and Mike.... it's yet another Mike.

              Check with your local (kingdom) marshalls, (or the kingdom marshall page/rules online if you do not want to wait till the next practice) it does very by kingdom.

              For example here in Atlantia I did not have to do sword and shield before getting my greatsword, spear, polearm or dual-weapon authorizations. However, to fight single sword (non-greatsword) there is no other category but weapon and shield, so I had to use one of those horrible devices in order to weild my uchigatana with one hand.
              And yes, Midrealm requires that to be the first authorization, not because it is easy (for fighting with sword and shield is an ongoing learning experiance like anything else) but because people tend to get away from sword and shield early on thus reducing the number of shield-men for the press. A line of polearms and greatswords just does not work as well in the press. Go figure...

              I would recommend highly that even if you converse weekly with your local marshall/s go online or get a copy/print and otherwise mentally consume both the society and your kingdom rules regarding fighting. Not only is it a benefit to you but there is a verbal quiz of the rules of the list in order to authorize.

              -Takeda

              >Hi, Mike, it's Mike. ;) Sorry, had to do that.
              >
              >Well, Japanese shields are a no-no. The "shield" most commonly seen was actually an arrow blocker used from 1300-1330. The device was dropped when entering close combat. Thus, sorry, not authentic.
              >
              >That being said, you'll need to use one. The Middle Kingdom, for instance (it may be SCA-wide) requires your original authorization be in sword and shield. Period. It's the easiest way to fight (so they say) and it gives everyone a common ground.
              >
              >I'd suggest finding a shield to borrow and having at it. They're not very intuitive (at least closed-form heater, as I'm trying to learn) so you need at least some work on it.
              >
              >Good luck on your authorization! Tell us how it goes!
              >
              >Mike
              >
              >Mike & Jackie <warrior02@...> wrote:
              >Maybe someone can help me with this?
              >
              >I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my
              >Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left handed,
              >right handed, and both hands. if that is all true (and I hope it is)
              >I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a Japanese Persona
              >had to prove that they can fight with a shield?
              >
              >2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese shields. I have
              >rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard time looking..
              >
              >Thanks
              >
              >Mike
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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            • Mike & Jackie
              Thanks Mike and Mike! I don t mind authorizing with a shield, I just don t want to use it full time in battle. I want to use my skills the way I know. and Mike
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
                Thanks Mike and Mike!
                I don't mind authorizing with a shield, I just don't want to use it
                full time in battle. I want to use my skills the way I know.
                and Mike I will let you know how everything goes at the event..


                is anyone here near SE Kentucky/NE Tennesee that is Japanese Persona
                that can help me with things?

                Mike









                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@a... wrote:
                > Afternoon Mike and Mike.... it's yet another Mike.
                >
                > Check with your local (kingdom) marshalls, (or the kingdom
                marshall page/rules online if you do not want to wait till the next
                practice) it does very by kingdom.
                >
                > For example here in Atlantia I did not have to do sword and shield
                before getting my greatsword, spear, polearm or dual-weapon
                authorizations. However, to fight single sword (non-greatsword)
                there is no other category but weapon and shield, so I had to use
                one of those horrible devices in order to weild my uchigatana with
                one hand.
                > And yes, Midrealm requires that to be the first authorization, not
                because it is easy (for fighting with sword and shield is an ongoing
                learning experiance like anything else) but because people tend to
                get away from sword and shield early on thus reducing the number of
                shield-men for the press. A line of polearms and greatswords just
                does not work as well in the press. Go figure...
                >
                > I would recommend highly that even if you converse weekly with
                your local marshall/s go online or get a copy/print and otherwise
                mentally consume both the society and your kingdom rules regarding
                fighting. Not only is it a benefit to you but there is a verbal quiz
                of the rules of the list in order to authorize.
                >
                > -Takeda
                >
                > >Hi, Mike, it's Mike. ;) Sorry, had to do that.
                > >
                > >Well, Japanese shields are a no-no. The "shield" most commonly
                seen was actually an arrow blocker used from 1300-1330. The device
                was dropped when entering close combat. Thus, sorry, not authentic.
                > >
                > >That being said, you'll need to use one. The Middle Kingdom, for
                instance (it may be SCA-wide) requires your original authorization
                be in sword and shield. Period. It's the easiest way to fight (so
                they say) and it gives everyone a common ground.
                > >
                > >I'd suggest finding a shield to borrow and having at it. They're
                not very intuitive (at least closed-form heater, as I'm trying to
                learn) so you need at least some work on it.
                > >
                > >Good luck on your authorization! Tell us how it goes!
                > >
                > >Mike
                > >
                > >Mike & Jackie <warrior02@c...> wrote:
                > >Maybe someone can help me with this?
                > >
                > >I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my
                > >Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left
                handed,
                > >right handed, and both hands. if that is all true (and I hope it
                is)
                > >I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a Japanese
                Persona
                > >had to prove that they can fight with a shield?
                > >
                > >2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese shields. I
                have
                > >rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard time looking..
                > >
                > >Thanks
                > >
                > >Mike
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >        
                > >---------------------------------
                > >Do you Yahoo!?
                > >Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
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                > >
              • RavenRux@COX.NET
                ... Hmmm....I m a Michael, too. Just how many Mikes are on this list? Masamune From: sigrune@aol.com Date: 2004/07/22 Thu PM 03:06:20 EDT To:
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
                  >Afternoon Mike and Mike.... it's yet another Mike.

                  Hmmm....I'm a Michael, too. Just how many Mikes are on this list?

                  Masamune

                  From: sigrune@...
                  Date: 2004/07/22 Thu PM 03:06:20 EDT
                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Samurai with Shield



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • scadragon@juno.com
                  The rules for authorizing the first time vary from kingdom to kingdom. You should consult with the marshalls in your hometown for advice. I recommend any bushi
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
                    The rules for authorizing the first time vary from kingdom to kingdom.
                    You should consult with the marshalls in your hometown for advice.

                    I recommend any bushi learn the basics of shield-use,
                    it will help you learn how to overcome those outland barbarians who use
                    those odd pieces of lumber
                    in their clumsy and futile attempts to defend themselves from your
                    katana!! Banzai!!

                    It will build up your arm strength, and by swapping between right and
                    left , you learn to fight off-hand better.

                    Anyhow, all you generally are doing is to demonstrate that you are SAFE
                    not neccesarily that you would win.
                    Remember: Don't lead with your HEAD!

                    Takeda Tochiro



                    On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:28:42 -0000 "Mike & Jackie"
                    <warrior02@...> writes:
                    > Maybe someone can help me with this?
                    >
                    > I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my
                    > Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left handed,
                    >
                    > right handed, and both hands. if that is all true (and I hope it is)
                    >
                    > I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a Japanese Persona
                    > had to prove that they can fight with a shield?
                    >
                    > 2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese shields. I have
                    >
                    > rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard time looking..
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > --------------------~-->
                    > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70
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                    >
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                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
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                    >
                    >
                    >


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                  • Ii Saburou
                    I knew it... I m surrounded by Michaels! (At least I ll never run out of tinsel and knicknacks!) -Ii running and ducking behind a line of tate.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 22, 2004
                      I knew it... I'm surrounded by Michaels!

                      (At least I'll never run out of tinsel and knicknacks!)

                      -Ii running and ducking behind a line of tate.

                      On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 RavenRux@... wrote:

                      > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:27:16 -0400
                      > From: RavenRux@...
                      > Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: Re: [SCA-JML] Samurai with Shield
                      >
                      > >Afternoon Mike and Mike.... it's yet another Mike.
                      >
                      > Hmmm....I'm a Michael, too. Just how many Mikes are on this list?
                      >
                      > Masamune
                      >
                      > From: sigrune@...
                      > Date: 2004/07/22 Thu PM 03:06:20 EDT
                      > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Samurai with Shield
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                    • Donald Luby
                      ... Do you mean are you physically able to or can you document it ? If the former, then yes I did, back in the dark ages, when I first authorized. People
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 31, 2004
                        On Jul 22, 2004, at 2:28 PM, Mike & Jackie wrote:

                        > Maybe someone can help me with this?
                        >
                        > I am going to my first SCA event next month, and I was told by my
                        > Marshal that I have to show I can fight using a shield, left handed,
                        > right handed, and both hands. if that is all true (and I hope it is)
                        > I am curious to the shield part, has anyone with a Japanese Persona
                        > had to prove that they can fight with a shield?

                        Do you mean "are you physically able to" or "can you document it"?

                        If the former, then yes I did, back in the dark ages, when I first
                        authorized. People in my area seemed to think that it was required as
                        a first authorization then (I went back and checked - it never was, in
                        the kingdom I was living in, just another urban legend), and until I
                        passed that authorization, I wasn't allowed to really train with any
                        additional forms; while it set me back in fighting the forms I wanted
                        to for a few months, I don't think it really did any long-term damage
                        to my fighting career.

                        Some kingdoms do in fact require that newer fighters first authorize in
                        sword and shield, or even require experienced fighters who've moved in
                        from other kingdoms to do so; I know of several people who specifically
                        keep their official SCA address in a different kingdom from where they
                        actually reside, specifically for this reason.

                        I know for a fact, for example, that AEthelmearc does not have such a
                        rule (mostly because I'm the one who gets to write those rules at the
                        moment), and I"m fairly certain that the East doesn't either; I
                        wouldn't be surprised if the Middle did, but then Middle has a long and
                        rigorous process for everything fighting-related.

                        Also, unlike many other kingdoms, we also allow combattants to be
                        authorized in only combat archery, if they wish, since we view it as
                        just another combat form.

                        > 2nd question: where can I find more info on Japanese shields. I have
                        > rarely seen them in pictures, and I have had a hard time looking.

                        That's because, from everything I've been able to tell, for the period
                        in which most all Japanese personae come from (~800 - 1600), the
                        Japanese did not carry shields into melee. There are examples of
                        self-standing shields that archers and gunners would carry, and they
                        would set them up on the ground and use the for cover from returning
                        fire, but that is something completely different.

                        > Thanks
                        >
                        > Mike


                        Sir Koredono
                        AEthelmearc Earl Marshal
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