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alternate personae

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  • Andrea Gideon
    On the SCA drumming list, someone forwarded a message from a Baroness in An Tir(I think) that stated that since belly dancing does not fall within the original
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 24, 2000
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      On the SCA drumming list, someone forwarded a message from a Baroness in
      An Tir(I think) that stated that since belly dancing does not fall
      within the original scope of the SCA, it should not be taught or
      performed at any official SCA function. This led to a discussion of how
      people with alternate personae (anything non-Western European) are
      treated and whether newbies are streered away from alternate choices in
      the local groups. I was wondered what y'all experiences are in that
      regard.

      Giovanna
    • Kass McGann
      ... Baroness in ... of how ... choices in ... All I can say is that the Baroness in question sure isn t going to make any friends with that remark. Middle
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 24, 2000
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        --- In sca-jml@egroups.com, Andrea Gideon <ahgideon@e...> wrote:
        > On the SCA drumming list, someone forwarded a message from a
        Baroness in
        > An Tir(I think) that stated that since belly dancing does not fall
        > within the original scope of the SCA, it should not be taught or
        > performed at any official SCA function. This led to a discussion
        of how
        > people with alternate personae (anything non-Western European) are
        > treated and whether newbies are streered away from alternate
        choices in
        > the local groups. I was wondered what y'all experiences are in that
        > regard.
        >
        > Giovanna

        All I can say is that the Baroness in question sure isn't going to
        make any friends with that remark. Middle Eastern dance existed in
        period. We have illustrations and mentions of dancers from as far
        back as the Bible. And the Crusaders came into contact with such
        practices. So why shouldn't we allow it?

        I am insulted and uphauled by the insinuation that being non-European
        is an "alternate choice". Lady Fujiwara no Aoi is my FIRST and
        primary person. I also do Irish. But to be quite honest, even close
        SCA friends of mine didn't recognize me the first time they saw me
        without my makeup and Heian wig. I am Lady Fujiwars first and
        foremost.

        If the SCA wants to "outlaw" foreign personae, let them. Let them
        also tighten up the time period and restrict the other European
        countries you can be from. I mean, if you're going to use the
        plausibility arguement, you might as well force us all to be from
        England and France in the 14th century or something. And there are
        those who believe this is what the SCA should be.

        The SCA started out as a party in someone's backyard in Berkeley, CA -
        - a bunch of hippies playing dress up with a name coined by a sci-fi-
        fantasy writer. We are much different from what we were when we
        started. But we are not a historical re-enactment group. So who
        cares if I am a Japanese noblewoman from the 10th century and that
        there is NO WAY I would have left my part of the country, much less
        traveled to Europe. I don't have an elaborate story of how I got
        here. I just got out of my ox cart one day and I was at the
        Coronation of Brion and Anna and people were very nice to me and gave
        me a place to stay and food to eat and I came to apprentice to a
        gentleman of my country, etc., etc.

        One of my dearest friends is a lady by the name of Eilis Ni Bhrian.
        Lady Eilis has NO persona story. She is a costumer. She makes
        clothing from all periods and all countries. She doesn't try to tell
        you that "her father is a trader" or "I stowed away on a pirate ship"
        or anything. She had an Irish name 'cuz she's mundanely of Irish
        descent. But for the rest of it, she's 14th century French today and
        12th century Persian tomorrow, and she doesn't try to explain any of
        it. That is her joy. That is the part of the game she loves. I
        couldn't be like her. Nor do I want to be. So why should we all be
        the same. That's hardly what the SCA is about.

        I belong to a number of different "real" re-anctment groups -- Battle
        of Hastings Era Norman, 15th century Swiss, 17th century Swedish,
        16th century Irish, American West... None of these gives me the same
        kind of joy and companionship that I get in the SCA. I wouldn't give
        any of them up. But I love the SCA for what it is. And though I
        can't STAND to see people running around in bathrobes
        and "Highlander" katanas, I still love what we do because of how we
        do it.

        The Baroness from An Tir needs to think about what a boring (and
        small) organization we would be if we weren't as eclectic as we are.

        Sincerely,
        Kass McGann
        aka Fujiwara no Aoi-hime
      • Barbara Nostrand
        Noble Cousins! One should remember that there was never an original scope for the Society unless it was contained in a party invitation back in 1966. What
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 25, 2000
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          Noble Cousins!

          One should remember that there was never an "original scope" for the
          Society unless it was contained in a party invitation back in 1966.
          What passed for "scope" early on was either pretty open or was so
          restrictive that a LOT of stuff in the Society including Russians
          and possibly arabs and welshmen would not be included. These battles
          have been fought too many times already, but appear to be doommed to
          be refought (at least in miniature) every couple of months. The real
          problem with "belly dancning" is not that it is middle eastern (which
          has been generally accepted for decades now), but that it is largely
          derived from cabaret dancing which is modern. The challenge for
          "belly dancers" as for many in the Society is to search out historical
          roots and recreate those instead of modern fantasies or adaptations.
          There is a cadre of dedicated middle eastern dance researches who
          are very interested in doing historical stuff. (They tend to wear
          more clothing.) Regardless, middle eastern dance may be connected
          to the Semiotic dance of Northern India. Northern Indian dance
          has influenced quite a bit of dance and extended as far East as
          Dai Nihon Teikoku which is of course of interest to this list.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
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        • Barbara Nostrand
          Baron Edward! Greetings from Solveig! I have somehow mislain those cothing citations again. Do you have them anywhere online? Could you possibly send them to
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 25, 2000
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            Baron Edward!

            Greetings from Solveig! I have somehow mislain those cothing citations
            again. Do you have them anywhere online? Could you possibly send them
            to me again?

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar
            --
            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
            | de Moivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
            | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
            | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
            | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
            | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
            | techie.com, msn.com |
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          • Barbara Nostrand
            Baron Edward! Could you plan on helping out with: Japanese Language Workshop (this is largely intended to be a salon) Diversions of the Japanese Aristocracy
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 7, 2000
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              Baron Edward!

              Could you plan on helping out with:

              Japanese Language Workshop (this is largely intended to be a salon)
              Diversions of the Japanese Aristocracy

              Please consider also.

              Japanese Architecture (I have not found my primary architecture books yet)
              The Japanese Festival Calendar (I have sources for this, but you may be
              better prepared at the moment.)

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
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