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Re: [SCA-JML] Pennisc

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  • Eva Grammer
    Greetings to all worthy patrons of this list... My name is Cynwise æt Sceaduwode. I am joining this list due to a nine-year-old s insatiable curiousity for
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 2, 2000
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      Greetings to all worthy patrons of this list...

      My name is Cynwise æt Sceaduwode. I am joining this list due to a nine-year-old's
      insatiable curiousity for all things Japanese. She wants a Japanese persona in
      the SCA. Of course, I realize that she can't even really register a name until
      she is 18, and that this might be a phase that she could grow out of, but I feel
      very reticent to squelch her curiousity.

      Therefore, I have joined this list to learn how Japanese is done in the SCA. We
      have done some preliminary research, and while she is interested in the Heian
      period, I have real reticence about all those robes, especially in Meridies summer
      heat! (read: humidity, humidity, humidity!) She already has problems dealing
      with the heat as it is.

      Anyway, if any gentles on the list could give me an idea of "Japanese lite" for
      my daughter, I'd really appreciate it. I sew marginally well, but have not tried
      anything more complicated than a T-tunic yet. I would like to get info on a
      period Japanese name for her, as well as some simple garb. And who knows, she
      might like it enough that she continues with the Japanese persona for the rest of
      her life, you never know.

      Thanks in advance,

      Cynwise æt Sceaduwode
      mka Eva Grammer
      Vulpine Reach, Meridies
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    • Barbara Nostrand
      Lady Cynwise æt Sceaduwode! Greetings from Solveig! ... I do not recall anything in the RfS which restricts registration of Society names to those who are 18
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 2, 2000
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        Lady Cynwise æt Sceaduwode!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        >the SCA. Of course, I realize that she can't even really register a
        >name until
        >she is 18, and that this might be a phase that she could grow out
        >of, but I feel
        >very reticent to squelch her curiousity.

        I do not recall anything in the RfS which restricts registration of Society
        names to those who are 18 or older.

        Now then. Your child is 9 years old. She is not expected to wear court
        robes yet. In fact, it is rather inappropriate for her to do so as she
        would not receive a court appointment until she was at least 12 or 13
        at the very earliest.

        Concerning heat and humidity. Parts of Japan are quite hot and humid during
        the Summer. The Japanese wore clothing which would allow people to survive
        that sort of weather.

        Japanese clothing can be just about as simple as a T-tunic. As for Japanese
        names. I can try to find my copy of History of Japanese Female Names by
        Pennsic and bring it with me. I will be giving a class on the Origin of
        Japanese Names. Incidentally, your daughter would have a childhood name
        at this point. Japanese customarily took new names at their coming of age
        ceremony. For that matter, an active life could give a Japanese person lots
        of opportunities to change their name or collect new ones to add to old ones.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Thronardottir
        Amateur Scholar

        Sorry for not being of greater help reight now. I have to vacate my office
        within the next two days. (The perilous life of the itinerant academic. I
        am off to a new post in the Autumn. Strange things happen. A place whose
        temporary job I turned down a few weeks ago called at the end of last
        week to offer a tenure track job. If the current tenure track offer falls
        trough, then I will take the newly offered one. *SIGH*)

        --
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        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
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      • Barbara Nostrand
        Noble Cousin! Yes, there are a lot of auxiliary verbs and joshi and all sorts of other stuff that was around in classical Japanese, but isn t now. By 1500,
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 2, 2000
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          Noble Cousin!

          Yes, there are a lot of auxiliary verbs and joshi and all sorts of
          other stuff that was around in classical Japanese, but isn't now.
          By 1500, Japanese starts looking pretty recognizeable. Even so,
          there is a "translation" into modern Japanese of Ryorimonogatari
          (17c) Regardless, a good text is:

          The Guide to Japanese Literature
          Shogakukan
          ISBN 4-09-504501-9

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          --
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
          | de Moivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
          | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
          | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
          | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
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          | techie.com, msn.com |
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        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... We re not talking about now. We re talking about 16th Century Japanese. ... Shakespeare is fairly recognizable too, but there are many points of grammar
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 3, 2000
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            Barbara Nostrand wrote:

            > Noble Cousin!
            >
            > Yes, there are a lot of auxiliary verbs and joshi and all sorts of
            > other stuff that was around in classical Japanese, but isn't now.

            We're not talking about now. We're talking about 16th Century Japanese.

            >
            > By 1500, Japanese starts looking pretty recognizeable. Even so,
            > there is a "translation" into modern Japanese of Ryorimonogatari
            > (17c)

            Shakespeare is "fairly recognizable" too, but there are many points of
            grammar and syntax in Shakespeare that are not common in contemporary
            English. The same with elements of Shakespearean vocabulary. Ask Lord
            Goderic about those Kyogen and Noh texts he's been trying to work on.
            That's *not* modern Japanese.

            Let me quote something as an example.

            Let's be specific, too, since we're talking about letters. Here's a letter
            in its entirety which was sent from Ieyasu to Hideyoshi who was in the
            midst of a campaign (my apologies to those who don't speak Japanese and
            can't catch why this is different):

            "Tsusshinde gonjou. Somosomo kondo Kishuu omote ni oite kakushuu to shite
            goriun no dan omowazariki ni, shojin botsuraku su. Kore mata gokenryo no
            hoka nari. Iyoiyo bangun genke taigen no ittou kijiku shi, tokoshinae ni
            tsuranatte taishi taiyou ne ni kashite chouken nari. Naozari ni rikkoku,
            narabi ni kitaru koto kaku no gotoshi. Jin'i wo Kyuushuu ni furui, ikioi
            nao moppara nari. Hatamata gokikan sottaku tsusshinde hofuku su. Yotte,
            kudan no tou. Sonkou sonhitsu uyamatt mousu.
            "Nangatsu itsuka Nanigashi
            "Fujiwara Hideyoshi-kou
            "Teishou shitatematsuru gobandokoro."

            The translation:

            "With deep respect, I report to you. Just when I did not expect you to be
            victorious in your present campaign in Kii province, the opponent being so
            persistently hostile, all enemy camps collapsed. This again is nothing but
            [evidence of] your wisdom. More and more, all armies have no option but to
            vanish before you like apparitions. Entwined for all eternity, branches and
            leaves become roots, healthy and strong. It happened just as easy as
            conquering the Six Provinces all at once. When you extend your divine might
            to Kyushu, your strength will become even more complete. Moreover, I
            prostrate myself in anticipation of the propitious occasion of your return.
            Thus the foregoing. With deep respect, I remain your humble servant.
            "Some month, some day X
            "Lord Fujiwara Hideyoshi
            "To the guardhouse that will present this letter."

            Does that look very modern? No desu. No gozaru. Hell, no sourou. Inflected
            verbs and adjectives. Honorific joshi.

            That's kobun showing there.

            If you've not had any exposure to bungo, reading or writing 16th C.
            Japanese won't make very much sense at all.

            Effingham
          • Kass McGann
            ... facial ... on ... headwear? ... about ... I personally have made a tsuboshozoku, commonly referred to as a bug hat . Basically it s a big basket-like hat
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 5, 2000
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              --- In sca-jml@egroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@i...> wrote:
              > Mikazuchi Ukyo wrote:
              >
              > > With the summer months here now, and having suffered a nice
              facial
              > > sunburn from the East Kingdom War Camp day...anyone have any idea
              on
              > > where I can purchase, or preferably make some nice Japanese
              headwear?
              > > I have a late 16th century persona that is still being worked on
              > > heavily, but I'm dying for some shade. =)
              >
              > Well, some martial arts stores sell the conical straw hats. That's
              about
              > as close as you'll get this side of the pond. Unless you make a big
              > jingasa out of metal or leather and lacquer it all up.
              >
              > Effingham

              I personally have made a tsuboshozoku, commonly referred to as a "bug
              hat". Basically it's a big basket-like hat with a strange
              cylindrical protrusion at the center and "curtains" of silk gauze to
              keep the bugs (and the eyes of on-lookers) away. It ties onto the
              head in a way that makes it very stable. It's still rather heavy,
              however. But since I'm used to wearing all those Heian robes, I
              don't much mind a heavy hat.

              I highly recommend making one. Someone taught me how to basketweave
              and I made a reasonable replica on my first attempt.

              If you'd like to try it, email me privately and I'll give you some
              instruction. Or perhaps I'll see you at the next EK Warcamp in
              Eisental?

              Fujiwara no Aoi
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              My apologies for not getting back to you sooner! ... { snippage } ... Welcome to the madhouse. Pull up a zabuton, have some sake, and sit back for the ride.
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 6, 2000
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                My apologies for not getting back to you sooner!


                Eva Grammer wrote:

                > My name is Cynwise 誥 Sceaduwode. I am joining this list due to a nine-year-old's
                > insatiable curiousity for all things Japanese. She wants a Japanese persona in
                > the SCA.

                { snippage }

                > Therefore, I have joined this list to learn how Japanese is done in the SCA.

                Welcome to the madhouse. Pull up a zabuton, have some sake, and sit back for the
                ride.

                > We
                > have done some preliminary research, and while she is interested in the Heian
                > period, I have real reticence about all those robes, especially in Meridies summer
                > heat! (read: humidity, humidity, humidity!) She already has problems dealing
                > with the heat as it is.
                >

                Well, the japanese survived it... and in Kyoto. A more muggy and humidly icky place I
                have never visited. Actually, multi-layering of loose clothing is remarkably cool;
                more layers to catch a breeze or wick heat away or some such idea. I'm really not too
                clear on it.

                Fortunately, for kids, you don't have to deal with all those layers. If your computer
                can read JPEGs or GIFs, I can scan in and send you a couple of color photos of
                Heian-era girlchild garments. And they're really easy to make, too, being almost
                entirely composed of rectangles.

                It's possibly a bit beyond a nine-year-old, but you might want to get and read (if
                only for your own edification) a copy of Ivan Morris' "The World of the Shining
                Prince." It's starting to show its age (c. 30+ years) but it's still arguably the
                best popular look at Heian life and custom. It's in paperback, and you can get it
                from Amazon.com.

                >
                > Anyway, if any gentles on the list could give me an idea of "Japanese lite" for
                > my daughter, I'd really appreciate it. I sew marginally well, but have not tried
                > anything more complicated than a T-tunic yet. I would like to get info on a
                > period Japanese name for her, as well as some simple garb. And who knows, she
                > might like it enough that she continues with the Japanese persona for the rest of
                > her life, you never know.
                >

                You should also grab Compleat Anachronist #65, "A Japanese Miscellany" -- it's got a
                lot of basic info on doing Japanese in the SCA, including a section on naming
                patterns.

                Effingham
              • kujika@aol.com
                Solveig this is Kuji you where kind enuff to do Tea at my camp last year , I will have Igo at war
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 7, 2000
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                  Solveig this is Kuji you where kind enuff to do Tea at my camp last year , I
                  will have Igo at war
                • Kass McGann
                  ... year , I ... Kuji! You unapologetic lurker! Fujiwara no Aoi
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 7, 2000
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                    --- In sca-jml@egroups.com, kujika@a... wrote:
                    > Solveig this is Kuji you where kind enuff to do Tea at my camp last
                    year , I
                    > will have Igo at war


                    Kuji! You unapologetic lurker!

                    <in a huff>
                    Fujiwara no Aoi
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