Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-JML] Letter Writing in Mediaeval Japan

Expand Messages
  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... The latter two I think you can order/find here in the States. The kogo jiten and possibly the Super Sigma book are more important, and only available there
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 2, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Joshua Badgley wrote:

      > On Sun, 2 Jul 2000, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:
      >
      > > If your Japanese is up to it, another useful source is the bookstore's selection
      > > of high-school texts on kobun. I recommend the Super Sigma (Suupaa Shiguma)
      > > "dekiru kobun (kokugo 1-2), by bun'ei do (it's B5 size). Another source (in
      > > English) is Introduction to Classical Japanese by Komai & Rohlich (pubbed by
      > > Bonjinsha). A *required* book is McCullough's "Bungo Manual". All but the latter
      > > can be bought in Japan.
      >
      > Obrigado,
      >
      > I will see what I can find/afford. ;)

      The latter two I think you can order/find here in the States. The kogo jiten and
      possibly the Super Sigma book are more important, and only available there (unless
      you order it via Kinokuniya online).

      Effingham
    • Eva Grammer
      Greetings to all worthy patrons of this list... My name is Cynwise æt Sceaduwode. I am joining this list due to a nine-year-old s insatiable curiousity for
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 2, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        Greetings to all worthy patrons of this list...

        My name is Cynwise æt Sceaduwode. I am joining this list due to a nine-year-old's
        insatiable curiousity for all things Japanese. She wants a Japanese persona in
        the SCA. Of course, I realize that she can't even really register a name until
        she is 18, and that this might be a phase that she could grow out of, but I feel
        very reticent to squelch her curiousity.

        Therefore, I have joined this list to learn how Japanese is done in the SCA. We
        have done some preliminary research, and while she is interested in the Heian
        period, I have real reticence about all those robes, especially in Meridies summer
        heat! (read: humidity, humidity, humidity!) She already has problems dealing
        with the heat as it is.

        Anyway, if any gentles on the list could give me an idea of "Japanese lite" for
        my daughter, I'd really appreciate it. I sew marginally well, but have not tried
        anything more complicated than a T-tunic yet. I would like to get info on a
        period Japanese name for her, as well as some simple garb. And who knows, she
        might like it enough that she continues with the Japanese persona for the rest of
        her life, you never know.

        Thanks in advance,

        Cynwise æt Sceaduwode
        mka Eva Grammer
        Vulpine Reach, Meridies
        --
        You can get paid for reading emails! Check this link out:

        http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/849085
      • Barbara Nostrand
        Lady Cynwise æt Sceaduwode! Greetings from Solveig! ... I do not recall anything in the RfS which restricts registration of Society names to those who are 18
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 2, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Lady Cynwise æt Sceaduwode!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          >the SCA. Of course, I realize that she can't even really register a
          >name until
          >she is 18, and that this might be a phase that she could grow out
          >of, but I feel
          >very reticent to squelch her curiousity.

          I do not recall anything in the RfS which restricts registration of Society
          names to those who are 18 or older.

          Now then. Your child is 9 years old. She is not expected to wear court
          robes yet. In fact, it is rather inappropriate for her to do so as she
          would not receive a court appointment until she was at least 12 or 13
          at the very earliest.

          Concerning heat and humidity. Parts of Japan are quite hot and humid during
          the Summer. The Japanese wore clothing which would allow people to survive
          that sort of weather.

          Japanese clothing can be just about as simple as a T-tunic. As for Japanese
          names. I can try to find my copy of History of Japanese Female Names by
          Pennsic and bring it with me. I will be giving a class on the Origin of
          Japanese Names. Incidentally, your daughter would have a childhood name
          at this point. Japanese customarily took new names at their coming of age
          ceremony. For that matter, an active life could give a Japanese person lots
          of opportunities to change their name or collect new ones to add to old ones.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Thronardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          Sorry for not being of greater help reight now. I have to vacate my office
          within the next two days. (The perilous life of the itinerant academic. I
          am off to a new post in the Autumn. Strange things happen. A place whose
          temporary job I turned down a few weeks ago called at the end of last
          week to offer a tenure track job. If the current tenure track offer falls
          trough, then I will take the newly offered one. *SIGH*)

          --
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
          | de Moivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
          | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
          | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
          | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
          | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
          | techie.com, msn.com |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
        • Barbara Nostrand
          Noble Cousin! Yes, there are a lot of auxiliary verbs and joshi and all sorts of other stuff that was around in classical Japanese, but isn t now. By 1500,
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 2, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            Noble Cousin!

            Yes, there are a lot of auxiliary verbs and joshi and all sorts of
            other stuff that was around in classical Japanese, but isn't now.
            By 1500, Japanese starts looking pretty recognizeable. Even so,
            there is a "translation" into modern Japanese of Ryorimonogatari
            (17c) Regardless, a good text is:

            The Guide to Japanese Literature
            Shogakukan
            ISBN 4-09-504501-9

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            --
            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
            | de Moivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
            | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
            | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
            | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
            | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
            | techie.com, msn.com |
            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... We re not talking about now. We re talking about 16th Century Japanese. ... Shakespeare is fairly recognizable too, but there are many points of grammar
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 3, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Barbara Nostrand wrote:

              > Noble Cousin!
              >
              > Yes, there are a lot of auxiliary verbs and joshi and all sorts of
              > other stuff that was around in classical Japanese, but isn't now.

              We're not talking about now. We're talking about 16th Century Japanese.

              >
              > By 1500, Japanese starts looking pretty recognizeable. Even so,
              > there is a "translation" into modern Japanese of Ryorimonogatari
              > (17c)

              Shakespeare is "fairly recognizable" too, but there are many points of
              grammar and syntax in Shakespeare that are not common in contemporary
              English. The same with elements of Shakespearean vocabulary. Ask Lord
              Goderic about those Kyogen and Noh texts he's been trying to work on.
              That's *not* modern Japanese.

              Let me quote something as an example.

              Let's be specific, too, since we're talking about letters. Here's a letter
              in its entirety which was sent from Ieyasu to Hideyoshi who was in the
              midst of a campaign (my apologies to those who don't speak Japanese and
              can't catch why this is different):

              "Tsusshinde gonjou. Somosomo kondo Kishuu omote ni oite kakushuu to shite
              goriun no dan omowazariki ni, shojin botsuraku su. Kore mata gokenryo no
              hoka nari. Iyoiyo bangun genke taigen no ittou kijiku shi, tokoshinae ni
              tsuranatte taishi taiyou ne ni kashite chouken nari. Naozari ni rikkoku,
              narabi ni kitaru koto kaku no gotoshi. Jin'i wo Kyuushuu ni furui, ikioi
              nao moppara nari. Hatamata gokikan sottaku tsusshinde hofuku su. Yotte,
              kudan no tou. Sonkou sonhitsu uyamatt mousu.
              "Nangatsu itsuka Nanigashi
              "Fujiwara Hideyoshi-kou
              "Teishou shitatematsuru gobandokoro."

              The translation:

              "With deep respect, I report to you. Just when I did not expect you to be
              victorious in your present campaign in Kii province, the opponent being so
              persistently hostile, all enemy camps collapsed. This again is nothing but
              [evidence of] your wisdom. More and more, all armies have no option but to
              vanish before you like apparitions. Entwined for all eternity, branches and
              leaves become roots, healthy and strong. It happened just as easy as
              conquering the Six Provinces all at once. When you extend your divine might
              to Kyushu, your strength will become even more complete. Moreover, I
              prostrate myself in anticipation of the propitious occasion of your return.
              Thus the foregoing. With deep respect, I remain your humble servant.
              "Some month, some day X
              "Lord Fujiwara Hideyoshi
              "To the guardhouse that will present this letter."

              Does that look very modern? No desu. No gozaru. Hell, no sourou. Inflected
              verbs and adjectives. Honorific joshi.

              That's kobun showing there.

              If you've not had any exposure to bungo, reading or writing 16th C.
              Japanese won't make very much sense at all.

              Effingham
            • Kass McGann
              ... facial ... on ... headwear? ... about ... I personally have made a tsuboshozoku, commonly referred to as a bug hat . Basically it s a big basket-like hat
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 5, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In sca-jml@egroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@i...> wrote:
                > Mikazuchi Ukyo wrote:
                >
                > > With the summer months here now, and having suffered a nice
                facial
                > > sunburn from the East Kingdom War Camp day...anyone have any idea
                on
                > > where I can purchase, or preferably make some nice Japanese
                headwear?
                > > I have a late 16th century persona that is still being worked on
                > > heavily, but I'm dying for some shade. =)
                >
                > Well, some martial arts stores sell the conical straw hats. That's
                about
                > as close as you'll get this side of the pond. Unless you make a big
                > jingasa out of metal or leather and lacquer it all up.
                >
                > Effingham

                I personally have made a tsuboshozoku, commonly referred to as a "bug
                hat". Basically it's a big basket-like hat with a strange
                cylindrical protrusion at the center and "curtains" of silk gauze to
                keep the bugs (and the eyes of on-lookers) away. It ties onto the
                head in a way that makes it very stable. It's still rather heavy,
                however. But since I'm used to wearing all those Heian robes, I
                don't much mind a heavy hat.

                I highly recommend making one. Someone taught me how to basketweave
                and I made a reasonable replica on my first attempt.

                If you'd like to try it, email me privately and I'll give you some
                instruction. Or perhaps I'll see you at the next EK Warcamp in
                Eisental?

                Fujiwara no Aoi
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                My apologies for not getting back to you sooner! ... { snippage } ... Welcome to the madhouse. Pull up a zabuton, have some sake, and sit back for the ride.
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 6, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  My apologies for not getting back to you sooner!


                  Eva Grammer wrote:

                  > My name is Cynwise 誥 Sceaduwode. I am joining this list due to a nine-year-old's
                  > insatiable curiousity for all things Japanese. She wants a Japanese persona in
                  > the SCA.

                  { snippage }

                  > Therefore, I have joined this list to learn how Japanese is done in the SCA.

                  Welcome to the madhouse. Pull up a zabuton, have some sake, and sit back for the
                  ride.

                  > We
                  > have done some preliminary research, and while she is interested in the Heian
                  > period, I have real reticence about all those robes, especially in Meridies summer
                  > heat! (read: humidity, humidity, humidity!) She already has problems dealing
                  > with the heat as it is.
                  >

                  Well, the japanese survived it... and in Kyoto. A more muggy and humidly icky place I
                  have never visited. Actually, multi-layering of loose clothing is remarkably cool;
                  more layers to catch a breeze or wick heat away or some such idea. I'm really not too
                  clear on it.

                  Fortunately, for kids, you don't have to deal with all those layers. If your computer
                  can read JPEGs or GIFs, I can scan in and send you a couple of color photos of
                  Heian-era girlchild garments. And they're really easy to make, too, being almost
                  entirely composed of rectangles.

                  It's possibly a bit beyond a nine-year-old, but you might want to get and read (if
                  only for your own edification) a copy of Ivan Morris' "The World of the Shining
                  Prince." It's starting to show its age (c. 30+ years) but it's still arguably the
                  best popular look at Heian life and custom. It's in paperback, and you can get it
                  from Amazon.com.

                  >
                  > Anyway, if any gentles on the list could give me an idea of "Japanese lite" for
                  > my daughter, I'd really appreciate it. I sew marginally well, but have not tried
                  > anything more complicated than a T-tunic yet. I would like to get info on a
                  > period Japanese name for her, as well as some simple garb. And who knows, she
                  > might like it enough that she continues with the Japanese persona for the rest of
                  > her life, you never know.
                  >

                  You should also grab Compleat Anachronist #65, "A Japanese Miscellany" -- it's got a
                  lot of basic info on doing Japanese in the SCA, including a section on naming
                  patterns.

                  Effingham
                • kujika@aol.com
                  Solveig this is Kuji you where kind enuff to do Tea at my camp last year , I will have Igo at war
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 7, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Solveig this is Kuji you where kind enuff to do Tea at my camp last year , I
                    will have Igo at war
                  • Kass McGann
                    ... year , I ... Kuji! You unapologetic lurker! Fujiwara no Aoi
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 7, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In sca-jml@egroups.com, kujika@a... wrote:
                      > Solveig this is Kuji you where kind enuff to do Tea at my camp last
                      year , I
                      > will have Igo at war


                      Kuji! You unapologetic lurker!

                      <in a huff>
                      Fujiwara no Aoi
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.