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Re: [SCA-JML] Patterns....

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  • Ii Saburou
    ... Where is here ? If you are doing kendo, I really recommend getting the appropriate gear, as a keikogi should be relatively tough. ... Long enough to cover
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 4, 2004
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      On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, esquire122 wrote:

      > I am going to order round-earth.com's hakama pattern
      > but I was wondering if anyone has a source for
      > a keikogi pattern? That may be a bit out of period
      > for our society but I am going to wear it for other
      > occasions such as the informal Kendo group we have
      > here locally.

      Where is 'here'?

      If you are doing kendo, I really recommend getting the appropriate gear,
      as a keikogi should be relatively tough.

      > I am afraid that I don't know much about Japanese clothing.
      > For those that wear hakamas, and wear some sort of shirt,
      > my question is that how long is the men's kimono that fits
      > inside the hakama?

      Long enough to cover the gaps in the hakama, so you don't see anything
      underneath! ;)

      > Forgive my lack of proper Japanese terminology. I am still
      > learning my way around Kendo equipment from Kendo The Definitive
      > Guide. My persona is English but well traveled to have been exposed
      > to Japanese martial arts. At Gulf Wars in two weeks, I would
      > like to wear Japanese garb over my armor so that I can fight
      > heavy weapons with my rattan katana.

      Thoughts: if you fight in western armor, you can always just fight with a
      regular hand-and-a-half sword. As for Japanese clothes, you might
      consider the Files section and see what they have in the Garb area.
      Hitare-kamishimo would be the typical outfit for bushi in many instances
      (Hitatare and hakama over a kosode--patterns should be available in the
      Files section). However, if you are looking at wearing something over
      armor, then the question starts to become: what is your purpose? To cover
      up the armour? Do you want to look like an unarmored person (with a
      helmet) or are you looking for the equivalent of a surcoat to go over your
      armor?

      For just hiding armor, going the religious route might be the best--you
      could event cover your helmet, I would think.

      -Ii
    • Donald Luby
      ... Welcome! ... If you want, there are free ones online - mine is at http://www.dementia.org/~djl/sca/japanese/patterns.html, which also contains a
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 4, 2004
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        On Mar 4, 2004, at 8:50 PM, esquire122 wrote:

        > Hello Everyone,
        >
        > This is my first posting to this list.

        Welcome!

        > I am going to order round-earth.com's hakama pattern

        If you want, there are free ones online - mine is at
        http://www.dementia.org/~djl/sca/japanese/patterns.html, which also
        contains a multi-purpose kimono / kosode / haori / jinbaori pattern as
        well.

        > but I was wondering if anyone has a source for
        > a keikogi pattern? That may be a bit out of period
        > for our society but I am going to wear it for other
        > occasions such as the informal Kendo group we have
        > here locally.

        Sorry, can't help you; since everything I make and wear is for SCA,
        I've never researched that, it being post-period.

        > I am afraid that I don't know much about Japanese clothing.
        > For those that wear hakamas, and wear some sort of shirt,
        > my question is that how long is the men's kimono that fits
        > inside the hakama?

        Personally, I make my kosode just shorter than knee-length, so they
        don't give weird bunching effects inside the hakama; my former knight
        wears full-length kimono and folds it up to about knee-length before
        putting on his hakama - same effect: mine is a an easier, more
        specialized garment, his is more multi-purpose (he can wear his without
        hakama, I really can't).

        > Forgive my lack of proper Japanese terminology. I am still
        > learning my way around Kendo equipment from Kendo The Definitive
        > Guide. My persona is English but well traveled to have been exposed
        > to Japanese martial arts. At Gulf Wars in two weeks, I would
        > like to wear Japanese garb over my armor so that I can fight
        > heavy weapons with my rattan katana.

        I'll be at Gulf Wars too, camping with AEthelmearc Royal; I should be
        on the field for some pickups at least one day, and some tourneys, as
        well as all the battles until I leave for the long drive home (some
        time Saturday), if you would like to do some work.

        > Thank you.
        >
        > Respectfully,
        > Aylwin Watkyns
        > Shire of the Eagle

        Sir Koredono
      • Donald Luby
        ... I have to agree; while good kendo hakama are not cheap (though I ve seen nice silk skirt hakama on ebay for $30 or so), I suspect that making a keikogi
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 4, 2004
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          On Mar 4, 2004, at 9:28 PM, Ii Saburou wrote:

          > On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, esquire122 wrote:
          >
          >> I am going to order round-earth.com's hakama pattern
          >> but I was wondering if anyone has a source for
          >> a keikogi pattern? That may be a bit out of period
          >> for our society but I am going to wear it for other
          >> occasions such as the informal Kendo group we have
          >> here locally.
          >
          > Where is 'here'?
          >
          > If you are doing kendo, I really recommend getting the appropriate
          > gear,
          > as a keikogi should be relatively tough.

          I have to agree; while good kendo hakama are not cheap (though I've
          seen nice silk 'skirt' hakama on ebay for $30 or so), I suspect that
          making a keikogi would be a major pain, and in the end, probably really
          not worth the effort.

          >> I am afraid that I don't know much about Japanese clothing.
          >> For those that wear hakamas, and wear some sort of shirt,
          >> my question is that how long is the men's kimono that fits
          >> inside the hakama?
          >
          > Long enough to cover the gaps in the hakama, so you don't see anything
          > underneath! ;)

          That too!

          >> Forgive my lack of proper Japanese terminology. I am still
          >> learning my way around Kendo equipment from Kendo The Definitive
          >> Guide. My persona is English but well traveled to have been exposed
          >> to Japanese martial arts. At Gulf Wars in two weeks, I would
          >> like to wear Japanese garb over my armor so that I can fight
          >> heavy weapons with my rattan katana.
          >
          > Thoughts: if you fight in western armor, you can always just fight
          > with a
          > regular hand-and-a-half sword.

          Which, to be honest, is not at all different from katana (exc. for
          maybe the guard, and of course its style and usage).

          > As for Japanese clothes, you might
          > consider the Files section and see what they have in the Garb area.
          > Hitare-kamishimo would be the typical outfit for bushi in many
          > instances
          > (Hitatare and hakama over a kosode--patterns should be available in the
          > Files section). However, if you are looking at wearing something over
          > armor, then the question starts to become: what is your purpose? To
          > cover
          > up the armour? Do you want to look like an unarmored person (with a
          > helmet) or are you looking for the equivalent of a surcoat to go over
          > your
          > armor?
          >
          > For just hiding armor, going the religious route might be the best--you
          > could event cover your helmet, I would think.

          I've always wanted to go the Shingen route and wear a huge orange
          kabuki-style wig on top of my kabuto! I decided to wait until either
          a) I had my own household, and my own troops, or b) won a Crown
          Tourney; neither has happened (yet), so I haven't done it (yet).
          The Kenshin look, with the monk's cowl wrapped over the kabuto, would
          also be cool, but I'm to much of a Takeda supporter to ever do that.
          :)

          As for hiding the armor, I don't think having kimono/kosode *over* the
          armor is necessarily a good way to go, just because it would look odd.
          OTOH, wearing a jinbaori might be just the thing - I've been known to
          do that myself, but just to look even cooler, not to hide anything.

          > -Ii


          Sir Koredono
        • esquire122
          Hello Everyone, Thank you to everyone who answered my questions, especially, Sir Koredono. I have looked at your patterns and found them to be very
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 5, 2004
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            Hello Everyone,

            Thank you to everyone who answered my questions, especially, Sir
            Koredono. I have looked at your patterns and found them to be
            very interesting.

            Ii writes:
            > That may be a bit out of period
            > for our society but I am going to wear it for other
            > occasions such as the informal Kendo group we have
            > here locally.

            >Where is 'here'?

            Shire of the Eagle, Auburn University, AL


            In my last post, what I didn't explain was that I assume
            a Japanese persona on the battlefield because of my years of martial
            arts training. It just feels comfortable mentally and natural.

            It was my desire to appear on the battlefield, to the extent
            possible, with my armor hidden beneath my clothing so as to
            appear much like unarmored samurai of the Edo period. While
            I do realize that Japanese warriors wore extensive armor, it
            is just my wish to appear to have none. Of course, having said
            that, it will be impossible to hide my helm or my gauntlets, but
            at least the rest of the armor can remain hidden. I was hoping
            to hide my leg armor with a hakama and my arm, shoulder, and chest
            armor with a natural looking garment.

            Sir Koredono writes:
            >As for hiding the armor, I don't think having kimono/kosode *over*
            >thearmor is necessarily a good way to go, just because it would
            >look odd. OTOH, wearing a jinbaori might be just the thing - I've
            >been known to do that myself, but just to look even cooler, not to
            >hide anything.

            That is the kind of information that I am looking to learn.
            Since you will be at Gulf Wars, I will be there at Hastings
            Field in a black surcoat, white trim with a fimbriated saltire
            with a argent star within on each shoulder covering. I will
            also be carrying my katana, black suede handle, aluminum tsuba,
            and curved rattan with thrusting tip. I don't know what you
            will be wearing but I will also being doing combat archery.
            If you see me, please contact me. I would love for my wife
            to see your garb, and ask you questions about making it.

            Respectfully in the service,
            Aylwin Watkyns
            Shire of the Eagle
            mka (East Central Alabama)
          • Ii Saburou
            ... Hmmm, unfortunately I m not sure how to help you here. It would actually be easier to go pre-17th century for covering armour, I would think. The
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 5, 2004
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              On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, esquire122 wrote:

              > In my last post, what I didn't explain was that I assume
              > a Japanese persona on the battlefield because of my years of martial
              > arts training. It just feels comfortable mentally and natural.
              >
              > It was my desire to appear on the battlefield, to the extent
              > possible, with my armor hidden beneath my clothing so as to
              > appear much like unarmored samurai of the Edo period. While
              > I do realize that Japanese warriors wore extensive armor, it
              > is just my wish to appear to have none. Of course, having said
              > that, it will be impossible to hide my helm or my gauntlets, but
              > at least the rest of the armor can remain hidden. I was hoping
              > to hide my leg armor with a hakama and my arm, shoulder, and chest
              > armor with a natural looking garment.

              Hmmm, unfortunately I'm not sure how to help you here. It would actually
              be easier to go pre-17th century for covering armour, I would think. The
              religious route would also make it easier.

              What kind of armour do you have? Late period, you can easily get away
              with a good, metal breastplate, as they were coming in from outside
              (usually being modified, but you can skip that).

              I'm not as knowledgable about post-period, clothes, unfortunately.

              Now, with minimal armour, you could probably wear a hitatare and hakama
              over your clothes.

              I think that Koredono-gimi's recommendation about a jinbaori is probably
              the best. For one, you have a large freedom as to just what you want to
              do for the design! You can get some really cool stuff with jinbaori.

              -Ii
            • Donald Luby
              ... Glad to be of help. ... Well, such a thing is possible - I did it myself for a few years until my knight required that all of his squires wear armor of
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 5, 2004
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                On Mar 5, 2004, at 12:00 PM, esquire122 wrote:

                > Hello Everyone,
                >
                > Thank you to everyone who answered my questions, especially, Sir
                > Koredono. I have looked at your patterns and found them to be
                > very interesting.

                Glad to be of help.

                > Ii writes:
                >>> That may be a bit out of period
                >>> for our society but I am going to wear it for other
                >>> occasions such as the informal Kendo group we have
                >>> here locally.
                >>
                >> Where is 'here'?
                >
                > Shire of the Eagle, Auburn University, AL
                >
                >
                > In my last post, what I didn't explain was that I assume
                > a Japanese persona on the battlefield because of my years of martial
                > arts training. It just feels comfortable mentally and natural.
                >
                > It was my desire to appear on the battlefield, to the extent
                > possible, with my armor hidden beneath my clothing so as to
                > appear much like unarmored samurai of the Edo period. While
                > I do realize that Japanese warriors wore extensive armor, it
                > is just my wish to appear to have none. Of course, having said
                > that, it will be impossible to hide my helm or my gauntlets, but
                > at least the rest of the armor can remain hidden. I was hoping
                > to hide my leg armor with a hakama and my arm, shoulder, and chest
                > armor with a natural looking garment.

                Well, such a thing is possible - I did it myself for a few years until
                my knight required that all of his squires wear armor of very similar
                armor and lacing patterns; we certainly look much better as a unit for
                it. Certainly if you wanted to go with 'Society minimum' armor (I'm
                uncertain what the requirements are for Meridies, but I doubt it's much
                higher than that, based on what I've seen worn at Gulf Wars in past
                years), everything except for gauntlets and kabuto can be easily
                covered by kosode and hakama - elbow and knee cops are easy, and a
                kidney belt shouldn't be too hard either. Since the East had more
                requirements than that, years ago, I also had to put a rigid plate on
                my sternum, simple black leather cops on the shoulders, and very
                minimal haidate, which since it hung off the kidney belt that solved
                two issues at once. Also, the kimono I wore, which covered all of my
                legal target areas, was padded/quilted so that I had some minimal
                bruise protection where I didn't have rigid protection.

                > Sir Koredono writes:
                >> As for hiding the armor, I don't think having kimono/kosode *over*
                >> thearmor is necessarily a good way to go, just because it would
                >> look odd. OTOH, wearing a jinbaori might be just the thing - I've
                >> been known to do that myself, but just to look even cooler, not to
                >> hide anything.
                >
                > That is the kind of information that I am looking to learn.
                > Since you will be at Gulf Wars, I will be there at Hastings
                > Field in a black surcoat, white trim with a fimbriated saltire
                > with a argent star within on each shoulder covering. I will
                > also be carrying my katana, black suede handle, aluminum tsuba,
                > and curved rattan with thrusting tip.
                >
                > I don't know what you will be wearing

                Well, for the battles, I'll be with the King of AEthelmearc, and except
                for the ravine, I'll have a sashimono with my mon (three lozenges
                within a mascle argent) and my barony's badge (a comet argent) for the
                battles; my do also has my mon laced into the sode. While I don't
                expect there to be a lot of other Japanese personae there, here's a
                link to a pic of me at Gulf Wars last year to make it a little easier
                to spot me:
                http://www.capnmac.com/sca/picturepages/2003/gulfwar2k3/pages/
                012gulfwar2k3.htm

                > but I will also being doing combat archery.

                I may bring my yumi and fire back golf tubes in the more static battles
                (ravine and fort), but that's not anything definite.

                > If you see me, please contact me. I would love for my wife
                > to see your garb, and ask you questions about making it.

                She would certainly be welcome to; I'm always willing to answer
                questions.

                > Respectfully in the service,
                > Aylwin Watkyns
                > Shire of the Eagle
                > mka (East Central Alabama)


                Sir Koredono
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                Just a I m proud of my prentices moment. Ii Katsumori has just been named the Kingdom Performing Arts Champion of Atlantia (K PACA?). He performed a series
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 9, 2004
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                  Just a "I'm proud of my 'prentices" moment.

                  Ii Katsumori has just been named the Kingdom Performing Arts Champion of
                  Atlantia (K'PACA?). He performed a series of pieces in various styles (from
                  French trouveres materiel to ancient Chinese tales (to the infamous "Namu Amida"
                  song -- to the tune of "Feliz Navidad" for a light moment) and smoked the
                  competition.

                  Medetaki koto zonzuru!*

                  I'm very proud of my apprentiges.

                  Effingham
                  *"I know this is an auspicious thing" -- but it loses in the translation
                • Anthony J. Bryant
                  ... One might point out, though, that if you were to take up fencing you would wear fencing gear because it is correct for the sport, not what you wear to do
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 9, 2004
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                    esquire122 wrote:

                    > In my last post, what I didn't explain was that I assume
                    > a Japanese persona on the battlefield because of my years of martial
                    > arts training. It just feels comfortable mentally and natural.

                    One might point out, though, that if you were to take up fencing you would wear
                    fencing gear because it is correct for the sport, not what you wear to do
                    another one. People who play both baseball and football wear different outfits
                    for each sport, no? <G>

                    > It was my desire to appear on the battlefield, to the extent
                    > possible, with my armor hidden beneath my clothing so as to
                    > appear much like unarmored samurai of the Edo period.

                    I can't understand why, as the Edo period is outside the purview of the SCA. Our
                    cutoff is 1600, and Edo began in either 1600 or 1603 (depending on your counting).

                    > While
                    > I do realize that Japanese warriors wore extensive armor, it
                    > is just my wish to appear to have none.

                    Why? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Think of the comparable European model.
                    "I'm doing Agincourt or a tournament, but I want to look like I'm at a feast
                    instead of in the field."

                    I don't get it.


                    Effingham
                  • Matt L
                    congradulations Ii-dono, and congradulations effingham-dono... Ii brings your house much honor yoshimasa ... From: Anthony J. Bryant
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 9, 2004
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                      congradulations Ii-dono, and congradulations effingham-dono... Ii brings your house much honor

                      yoshimasa

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Anthony J. Bryant [SMTP:ajbryant@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:01 PM
                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [SCA-JML] Bragging time

                      Just a "I'm proud of my 'prentices" moment.

                      Ii Katsumori has just been named the Kingdom Performing Arts Champion of
                      Atlantia (K'PACA?). He performed a series of pieces in various styles (from
                      French trouveres materiel to ancient Chinese tales (to the infamous "Namu Amida"
                      song -- to the tune of "Feliz Navidad" for a light moment) and smoked the
                      competition.

                      Medetaki koto zonzuru!*

                      I'm very proud of my apprentiges.

                      Effingham
                      *"I know this is an auspicious thing" -- but it loses in the translation



                      UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    • ladypyrate@charter.net
                      Many congratulations Ii-domo. Mistress Rachel of Nottinghill told me about your performance, and I wish I could have traveled to see it. Meadhbh inghean
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 9, 2004
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                        Many congratulations Ii-domo. Mistress Rachel of Nottinghill told me about your performance, and I wish I could have traveled to see it.

                        Meadhbh inghean Thaidgh ui Dohmniall
                        Gaijin sailor in the lonely seas of deep southern Atlantia

                        >
                        > From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                        > Date: 2004/03/09 Tue PM 02:01:13 EST
                        > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [SCA-JML] Bragging time
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ii Saburou
                        ... I must humbly correct this flattering praise as there was no assumption of title in the process. It was an enjoyable experience, with many good
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 9, 2004
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                          On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:

                          > Just a "I'm proud of my 'prentices" moment.
                          >
                          > Ii Katsumori has just been named the Kingdom Performing Arts Champion of
                          > Atlantia (K'PACA?). He performed a series of pieces in various styles (from
                          > French trouveres materiel to ancient Chinese tales (to the infamous "Namu Amida"
                          > song -- to the tune of "Feliz Navidad" for a light moment) and smoked the
                          > competition.

                          I must humbly correct this flattering praise as there was no assumption of
                          title in the process. It was an enjoyable experience, with many good
                          competitors, though.

                          -Ii
                        • Andrew Leitch
                          I don t know. Is there a comparable Japanese equivalent of the European Tourney? Would they wear armour to it? If not, I could imagine our friend here thinks
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 10, 2004
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                            I don't know. Is there a comparable Japanese equivalent of the European
                            Tourney? Would they wear armour to it?

                            If not, I could imagine our friend here thinks of coming to a tourney
                            dressed in Japanese persona as the equivalent of a ronin walking up to the
                            local monastary's martial arts competition as you see in one of those
                            Musashi movies (yes I know its Edo Jidai). Now my impression is that ronin
                            generally don't walk around in armour (or can even afford it).

                            Just a few thoughts.

                            - Andre


                            Anthony J. Bryant writes:
                            esquire122 wrote:

                            > In my last post, what I didn't explain was that I assume
                            > a Japanese persona on the battlefield because of my years of martial
                            > arts training. It just feels comfortable mentally and natural.

                            One might point out, though, that if you were to take up fencing you would
                            wear
                            fencing gear because it is correct for the sport, not what you wear to do
                            another one. People who play both baseball and football wear different
                            outfits
                            for each sport, no? <G>

                            > It was my desire to appear on the battlefield, to the extent
                            > possible, with my armor hidden beneath my clothing so as to
                            > appear much like unarmored samurai of the Edo period.

                            I can't understand why, as the Edo period is outside the purview of the
                            SCA. Our
                            cutoff is 1600, and Edo began in either 1600 or 1603 (depending on your
                            counting).

                            > While
                            > I do realize that Japanese warriors wore extensive armor, it
                            > is just my wish to appear to have none.

                            Why? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Think of the comparable European
                            model.
                            "I'm doing Agincourt or a tournament, but I want to look like I'm at a
                            feast
                            instead of in the field."

                            I don't get it.


                            Effingham
                          • esquire122
                            Hello Everyone, ... Perhaps it is my lack of expertise in Japanese history and culture that is the cause of confusion. For this, I apologize. On the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 10, 2004
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                              Hello Everyone,

                              Effingham writes:
                              >Why? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Think of the comparable
                              >European model. "I'm doing Agincourt or a tournament, but I want to
                              >look like I'm at a feast instead of in the field."
                              > I don't get it.
                              > Effingham

                              Perhaps it is my lack of expertise in Japanese history and culture
                              that is the cause of confusion. For this, I apologize.

                              On the battlefield, I have a personal preference, (not speaking
                              of a Japanese theme) for wearing a surcoat and hiding my stainless-
                              steel armor. For some time, I have thought of assuming a Japanese
                              persona just for the battlefield. As far as weapons, I prefer my 44"
                              rattan Katana to my other weapons only because I have mundane
                              martial experience although I would NOT call myself a swordsman.

                              A Katana would look out of place with European battlefield garb
                              so I began to investigate the possibility of a Japanese persona and
                              clothing so that it would complement the katana and not clash.
                              I am afraid, owing to my lack of knowledge of Japanese culture
                              and history that I may not speak precisely enough to be
                              understood. I simply like the look of a fighter on the battlefield
                              who shows no armor but you "understand" it is worn under garb.
                              If that isn't a historically accurate that Japanese fought on the
                              battlefield without armor, then I need to re-align my focus.

                              If the Edo period is out of SCA period, then I understand. I will
                              try to do more research before asking questions so that at least
                              they will be framed with a more appropriate understanding of how I
                              wish to appear on the battlefield, if I indeed pursue a Japanese
                              battlefied persona as I have desired.

                              Respectfully,
                              Aylwin
                            • Otagiri Tatsuzou
                              ... The japanese battlefield is fully armoured. Men of distinction wore armour that was notable by the armour s style, colors, lacing patterns, and/or
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 10, 2004
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                                > ... I simply like the look of a fighter on the battlefield
                                > who shows no armor but you "understand" it is worn under garb.
                                > If that isn't a historically accurate that Japanese fought on the
                                > battlefield without armor, then I need to re-align my focus.
                                >

                                The japanese battlefield is fully armoured. Men of distinction wore
                                armour that was notable by the armour's style, colors, lacing
                                patterns, and/or 'grotesque' helmet crests. Peasant soldiers would
                                wear whatever armour they could find. And, by the late 1500s,
                                standardized "army issue" (munition) armours were made for those in
                                between.

                                If I misunderstand you, and you are asking if any Japanese warriors
                                wore their armour under some garment, then you might want to look at
                                the warrior monks known as sohei or yamabushi, though they tend to
                                fight with polearms. Some religious samurai would also wear religious
                                robes over their armour.

                                See:
                                http://www.akataka.co.uk/images/funky_shoes.jpg
                                http://web.tiscali.it/gandalfilgrigio/mitsu/yamabushi.jpg
                                http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/21.htm

                                Rent the movies Ran or Kagemusha, or see the Last Samurai, to get a
                                basic feel for Japanese battlefields.

                                Otagiri
                              • Anthony J. Bryant
                                ... There s nothing to apologize for. ... Ah. You should probably watch a couple of films (I recommend Ran, Kagemusha, and Samurai Banners as
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 12, 2004
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                                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "esquire122" <watkijm@a...> wrote:
                                  > Hello Everyone,
                                  >
                                  > Effingham writes:
                                  > >Why? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Think of the comparable
                                  > >European model. "I'm doing Agincourt or a tournament, but I want to
                                  > >look like I'm at a feast instead of in the field."
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps it is my lack of expertise in Japanese history and culture
                                  > that is the cause of confusion. For this, I apologize.

                                  There's nothing to apologize for.

                                  <snip>

                                  > A Katana would look out of place with European battlefield garb
                                  > so I began to investigate the possibility of a Japanese persona and
                                  > clothing so that it would complement the katana and not clash.
                                  > I am afraid, owing to my lack of knowledge of Japanese culture
                                  > and history that I may not speak precisely enough to be
                                  > understood. I simply like the look of a fighter on the battlefield
                                  > who shows no armor but you "understand" it is worn under garb.

                                  Ah. You should probably watch a couple of films (I recommend "Ran,"
                                  "Kagemusha," and "Samurai Banners" as big-budget battle-fests to see
                                  what a Japanese battlefield looks like. As a rule, you don't fight
                                  without armour, unless you're caught up in a street brawl of some sort.


                                  > If the Edo period is out of SCA period, then I understand. I will
                                  > try to do more research before asking questions so that at least
                                  > they will be framed with a more appropriate understanding of how I
                                  > wish to appear on the battlefield, if I indeed pursue a Japanese
                                  > battlefied persona as I have desired.

                                  Pshaw! (I think that's how it's spelled. <G>) Ask away! There are
                                  several ways to find out things, and one of the easier ones is to ask
                                  for direction, info, and help. If you hadn't asked, you wouldn't have
                                  known. <G>

                                  Most of us are rather helpful, though I can be a bit... um... spicy at
                                  times.

                                  Effingham
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