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kydex armoring question

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  • Matt L
    I have a question for Date-dono and others who have worked with kydex. I have found a convient local source for purchacing sheet kydex, and have intention of
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 4 12:48 AM
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      I have a question for Date-dono and others who have worked with kydex. I
      have found a convient local source for purchacing sheet kydex, and have
      intention of building my armor SOON. my plans arte to make a Go-Mai Mogami
      Haramaki Do and matching Sode. I am presently requesting samples of lace
      from the various companies people have listed here in recent posts, and
      will be getting my materials together as soon as they arive, but I need to
      know a couple things.

      First and perhapse mosty importantly: How thick should the Kydex (tm) be? I
      will be using actual kydex, not ABS (which a number of people call kydex),
      nor chemical barrel (which suffers the same misidentification of ABS) I
      have been given a bit of general information on tooling and thermoforming
      the kydex from the suplier, but found a lot more detailed info on
      www.kydex.com which is kleerdex's website. Nothing on thier site mentions
      "if your going to be wearing this stuff while someone bearts on you with
      ratan use this thickness of this formula"... imagine that.

      the sales man at the supplier was reccomending 1/8" sheet, but it was clear
      he didn't know much about SCA combat as he had only seen a local fighter
      practice on one occasion, and thought said sheet would also be good for my
      kabuto...

      second, I imagine that those who have worked with the stuff have at some
      point used the "bake ity at 350" method (well o.k. it actualy needs to be
      between 380 and 390 but not over 400 (picky picky the stuff can be.)... did
      you have any problems with melting portions of it which where in contact
      with whatever metal container you used to suport it in the oven, or did you
      use an alternative method? (I know using a heat gun is an option, but it
      sounds like more time consuming and less even method of heating the plates.

      third, what would you reccomend for shaping of the plates? (as in molding
      thier curvature in)

      fourth: do I recall past conversations on the list that commented that
      using a punch while more percise than a drill has a binding problem in
      plastics? what form of a punch are you talking about using? (hollow or
      solid) or if a drill is prefered (yes I have access to a drill press, band
      saw, table saw, radial arm saw, etc at a friends work shop... just not good
      metal working tools beyond a sawz all) I am reading in the pamplet that the
      supplier gave me "Kydex can be drilled with a standard metal cutting drill.
      The drill should be aloud to fead itself and not be forced into the
      material. modified drills dubbed off to zero rake angles are prefered" now
      the only place I know rake angles from is motorcycles where it indicates
      the angle of the steering neck... and it has something to do with saw
      blades that I am forgetting the details of at the moment, but how is it
      aplicable to drill bits, and what would I have to modify to achieve this?

      for cutting curved sections, they recomend a straight flute router bit or
      band saw (both of which I have), but I was wondering if I can find the
      right size router bit would that work as an alternate to the drill bit? I
      know they can be used for such a purpose in wood, so I see no reason other
      than melting that it would not be usable for kydex.

      finaly does anyone have any experience with painting kydex? the website has
      some info on it, but I checked with several local suppliers and was not
      able to find the paints they reccomended... (I figure even if the paint
      isn't available in the color I want, it should be able to serve as a primer
      to which my prefered colors might adhear)... unfortunatly if I can not find
      a suitable base paint which will adhear to the kydex, I may have a problem.
      my suppliuer can not get it in the color I want, and the only options that
      come close to any documented color is black and brick red... (neither of
      which appeal to my lack of desire to be roasted in my armor in the
      excessivly hot southern sun)

      any help/info is greatly apreciated

      Yoshimasa
    • kegage
      I don t have a lot of experience with kydex in general, but on the painting question I may be able to help. Krylon has recently come out with a spray paint
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 4 1:20 AM
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        I don't have a lot of experience with kydex in general, but on the
        painting question I may be able to help. Krylon has recently come out
        with a spray paint called "Fusion" which is supposed to molecularly
        bond with the surface of the plastic effectively changing the actual
        color of the plastic (unless you choose to paint it the same color it
        is when manufactured).

        Hope this helps.

        Waffle

        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Matt L <mattlew@b...> wrote:

        > finaly does anyone have any experience with painting kydex? the
        website has
        > some info on it, but I checked with several local suppliers and was not
        > able to find the paints they reccomended... (I figure even if the paint
        > isn't available in the color I want, it should be able to serve as a
        primer
        > to which my prefered colors might adhear)... unfortunatly if I can
        not find
        > a suitable base paint which will adhear to the kydex, I may have a
        problem.
        > my suppliuer can not get it in the color I want, and the only
        options that
        > come close to any documented color is black and brick red...
        (neither of
        > which appeal to my lack of desire to be roasted in my armor in the
        > excessivly hot southern sun)
        >
        > any help/info is greatly apreciated
        >
        > Yoshimasa
      • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
        Yoshimasu-dono, Konnichi wa, tomodachi. Finally - a chance to work with a man of few words!!! :-) It seems you have done a fair amount of research and are on
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 4 5:50 AM
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          Yoshimasu-dono,
          Konnichi wa, tomodachi.
          Finally - a chance to work with a man of few words!!! :-)
          It seems you have done a fair amount of research and are on
          your way - I will respond off list to you about the questions you
          have asked so we don't clog other's e-mails and bandwidth...

          Date Saburou Yukiie
          Yama Kaminari Ryu

          > Yoshimasa
        • Marko Peussa
          Sorry, don t really know about Kydex, but, Whatever you do, ask for some free samples of different thickness and try them out first. It s a good plan to
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 5 12:32 AM
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            Sorry, don't really know about Kydex, but,

            Whatever you do, ask for some free samples of different thickness and
            try them out first. It's a good plan to practice with smaller pieces
            to find out how they handle in your specific application.

            Try out what is the temperature and time needed in your convection
            oven for the pieces to soften. See if they tend to stick on the
            support surface, in that case use some ordinary teflon coated baking
            paper. Find out which kind of gloves you need to handle the pieces,
            and how fast they cool down and get stiff again. Test if you need to
            hold the pieces in place when they are cooling. See if there is a
            need for wooden or steel plate forms for cooling.

            Try to find out the oven temperature and time which is needed to get
            the pieces just a little bit soft. At this temperature you can bend
            them and they will keep shape after cooling. I use this temp to curve
            the plates in one direction, or to fit the plate curvature to my body.

            Try to find out the second temperature and time to make the pieces
            floppy. At this temperature one can make cup-like shapes by suitable
            shaping aids. Or, it is possible to make patterns to the plastic
            surface. Having the pieces in this temperature will reset and remove
            any previous shapes. This is great if you need to make rework.

            I have been able to do something like kiritsuke zane to ABS plates,
            and I can just say that this way of working will greatly reduce the
            time needed to make a 'fake' lamellar for SCA combat.

            I have a Mongol 'fake' lamellar coming up. For a photo of the shaped
            back and shoulder plates, please have a look at:

            http://www.kolumbus.fi/marko.peussa/PCDV0009.JPG

            There are a couple of stainless steel forms in the photo, too. I
            shaped these to my body first, and then bent the plastics on the
            forms by hand.

            Regards,

            Klaus

            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Matt L <mattlew@b...> wrote:
            > I have a question for Date-dono and others who have worked with
            kydex. I
            > have found a convient local source for purchacing sheet kydex, and
            have
            > intention of building my armor SOON. my plans arte to make a Go-Mai
            Mogami
            > Haramaki Do and matching Sode. I am presently requesting samples of
            lace
            > from the various companies people have listed here in recent posts,
            and
            > will be getting my materials together as soon as they arive, but I
            need to
            > know a couple things.
            >
            > First and perhapse mosty importantly: How thick should the Kydex
            (tm) be? I
            > will be using actual kydex, not ABS (which a number of people call
            kydex),
            > nor chemical barrel (which suffers the same misidentification of
            ABS) I
            > have been given a bit of general information on tooling and
            thermoforming
            > the kydex from the suplier, but found a lot more detailed info on
            > www.kydex.com which is kleerdex's website. Nothing on thier site
            mentions
            > "if your going to be wearing this stuff while someone bearts on you
            with
            > ratan use this thickness of this formula"... imagine that.
            >
            > the sales man at the supplier was reccomending 1/8" sheet, but it
            was clear
            > he didn't know much about SCA combat as he had only seen a local
            fighter
            > practice on one occasion, and thought said sheet would also be good
            for my
            > kabuto...
            >
            > second, I imagine that those who have worked with the stuff have at
            some
            > point used the "bake ity at 350" method (well o.k. it actualy needs
            to be
            > between 380 and 390 but not over 400 (picky picky the stuff can
            be.)... did
            > you have any problems with melting portions of it which where in
            contact
            > with whatever metal container you used to suport it in the oven, or
            did you
            > use an alternative method? (I know using a heat gun is an option,
            but it
            > sounds like more time consuming and less even method of heating the
            plates.
            >
            > third, what would you reccomend for shaping of the plates? (as in
            molding
            > thier curvature in)
            >
            > fourth: do I recall past conversations on the list that commented
            that
            > using a punch while more percise than a drill has a binding problem
            in
            > plastics? what form of a punch are you talking about using? (hollow
            or
            > solid) or if a drill is prefered (yes I have access to a drill
            press, band
            > saw, table saw, radial arm saw, etc at a friends work shop... just
            not good
            > metal working tools beyond a sawz all) I am reading in the pamplet
            that the
            > supplier gave me "Kydex can be drilled with a standard metal
            cutting drill.
            > The drill should be aloud to fead itself and not be forced into the
            > material. modified drills dubbed off to zero rake angles are
            prefered" now
            > the only place I know rake angles from is motorcycles where it
            indicates
            > the angle of the steering neck... and it has something to do with
            saw
            > blades that I am forgetting the details of at the moment, but how
            is it
            > aplicable to drill bits, and what would I have to modify to achieve
            this?
            >
            > for cutting curved sections, they recomend a straight flute router
            bit or
            > band saw (both of which I have), but I was wondering if I can find
            the
            > right size router bit would that work as an alternate to the drill
            bit? I
            > know they can be used for such a purpose in wood, so I see no
            reason other
            > than melting that it would not be usable for kydex.
            >
            > finaly does anyone have any experience with painting kydex? the
            website has
            > some info on it, but I checked with several local suppliers and was
            not
            > able to find the paints they reccomended... (I figure even if the
            paint
            > isn't available in the color I want, it should be able to serve as
            a primer
            > to which my prefered colors might adhear)... unfortunatly if I can
            not find
            > a suitable base paint which will adhear to the kydex, I may have a
            problem.
            > my suppliuer can not get it in the color I want, and the only
            options that
            > come close to any documented color is black and brick red...
            (neither of
            > which appeal to my lack of desire to be roasted in my armor in the
            > excessivly hot southern sun)
            >
            > any help/info is greatly apreciated
            >
            > Yoshimasa
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... Are you insane? Do this HERE. In the group. So that *everyone* can benefit from the exchange. Effingham
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 9 11:13 AM
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              Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:


              > It seems you have done a fair amount of research and are on
              > your way - I will respond off list to you about the questions you
              > have asked so we don't clog other's e-mails and bandwidth...

              Are you insane?

              Do this HERE. In the group. So that *everyone* can benefit from the exchange. <G>


              Effingham
            • Matt L
              rest assured effingham-donoI will build a composit of the information and post it to the group... (probably in the files section so I can include the PDF s
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 9 11:34 AM
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                rest assured effingham-donoI will build a composit of the information and
                post it to the group... (probably in the files section so I can include the
                PDF's from kleerdex with the tech data or atleast links directly to the
                nessicary info)

                yoshimasa

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Anthony J. Bryant [SMTP:ajbryant@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:14 PM
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: kydex armoring question

                Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:


                > It seems you have done a fair amount of research and are on
                > your way - I will respond off list to you about the questions you
                > have asked so we don't clog other's e-mails and bandwidth...

                Are you insane?

                Do this HERE. In the group. So that *everyone* can benefit from the
                exchange. <G>


                Effingham



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