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Re: kamon

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  • S. J. Hootman
    ... Agreed, but I like simple armory. ... Also agreed, but respectfully, I dislike seeing No! without alternatives offered and explained,
    Message 1 of 50 , Feb 1, 2004
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      <snippage>
      > People in the Society toss elements
      > together
      > > more than they should for European armory.

      Agreed, but I like simple armory.

      > Tossing elements
      > together is
      > > even less appropriate for Japanese armory.

      Also agreed, but respectfully, I dislike seeing "No!" without
      alternatives offered and explained, especially since it is my belief
      that this list is supposed to be educational. "No" without
      alternatives offered never seems educational to me.

      I'm no expert, but I've seen fuji in both the tomoe and lozenge
      shapes, as well as in annulo (looking like a wreath of fuji-flowers
      without the leaves) as fabric patterns on pre Edo fabrics. Yes, I
      know, not all fabric patterns were Kamon, but for Society purposes, a
      fabric pattern can prove that a particular motif was known in period
      and thus make a particular idea plausible, if not actually
      documentable as used for the item in question.

      What about three fuji forced into the triangular shape, the fuji-
      triangles arranged with with their vertices together. That could give
      the look that is desired with the Fuji reference. Don't ask me to
      figure out how to blazon it to register it with the Society (quick
      assessment: The really cool designs where one object takes the shape
      of another can't be done. Personally, I gave up on the idea of a
      Kamon because of that.) but that seems like it should be appropriate
      and give the visual references that the person desired.

      That stated, I would ask is he interested in strict authenticity or
      looking for for something with a Japanese inspiration that references
      his Japanese family name (fuji) and the game he likes (Legend of
      Zelda)?

      Only he can answer this question. It's all about degrees. How
      authentic do you care to be? How important is authenticity on X topic
      compared to other factors, such as personal aesthetics, society
      rules, or finances? - Health and safety issues are a gimme:
      Authenticity comes dead last on those and no appologies should be
      expected or offered. Read the Authenticity list that's the first
      thing they say.

      Looking at the fuji-in-triangle (compare to fuji-in-tomoe) arranged
      with with their vertices together, the questions then become:

      Authenticity Question 1: Is the area of Kamon an area of high
      priority authenticity for me?

      If not, then fuji-in-triangle may be an answer for you.

      Authenticity Question 2: Assuming high authenticity for kamon, is
      fuji-in-triangle appropriate to the period of Japanese history being
      recreated?

      Unsure, probably not. Triangles probably are. Fuji are, but fuji-in-
      triangle may not be appropriate. A good question would be "when are
      the first recorded appearances of non-geometric object A forced into
      the shape of geometric object B?" Once that question is answered, it
      answers the question of if the idea is appropriate to the time period
      he's recreating.

      Authenticity Question 2: : Assuming high authenticity for kamon, is
      fuji-in-triangle apporprate to any pre-Edo Japanese armory at all?

      Unsure. It's possible, but I don't have the data to answer that
      question. It seems like the Edo opened up Japan culturally and alot
      of new things were tried and passed into "traditional" from that
      point on. Answering the dating question on non-geometric object into
      geometric shape would answer this question.

      Authenticity Question 3: Is an original Kamon a high priority, along
      with authenticity is? If not then is the triforce itself protected
      armory for the SCA due to prestige or someone else in the society
      actually registering it?

      It seems not. I didn't find the anything resembling the blazon for it
      for it in the armorial or any of the precidents. I blazoned it: three
      triangles, one and two, cojoined at the vertices and looked through
      the entire page of triangle armory for anything even close, such as
      three triangles one and two. Cojoining at the vertices may make it
      difficult to pass, as I haven't seen anything like that so far in the
      Oridnary. Beyond that, it might not pass because someone else might
      recognize it as "the Triforce" and bounce it on excessive modernity.
      Laurel would need documentation for the use of that symbol in period
      Japanese armory to try to avert the bounce for modernity from
      happening.

      > The Triforce is a
      > reference to a highly opoular Nintendo game series called the
      > Legend of Zelda.

      Link-dono is obviously samurai. He rides a horse. He uses the bow and
      the sword. He doesn't get the girl. I want to see you make the
      Japanese equivilant of Link's green elfy outfits. Now that would be
      cool. :D

      Yours in Service,
      Fujiwara no Kitsume

      Anime girl and obviously not authentic to the learned eye, but at
      least I can tell you what's wrong with my outfits and my armory and
      why I chose to do it the "wrong way."
    • Bob R
      Thanks, I ll see what I can find. Bob R ... ===== Check out Cowboy Bob s Books & Things at: http://asia.geocities.com/gentleman9/index.htm
      Message 50 of 50 , Feb 4, 2004
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        Thanks, I'll see what I can find.

        Bob R

        --- Solveig <nostrand@...> wrote:
        > Thank you for offering. I will see about scanning in
        > my copy of the
        > title page. This is not the sort of book which has a
        > decorative cover.
        > You need to go by what it says on the spine. It is
        > part of a multi-
        > volume set.

        =====
        Check out "Cowboy" Bob's Books & Things at:
        http://asia.geocities.com/gentleman9/index.htm



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