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Re: garb

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  • Kass McGann
    Kou-dono, ... colors ... yellow ... Historical ... My comment to you regarding the brocade obi was intended to discourage you from using brocade obi that look
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 8, 2000
      Kou-dono,

      > Yes, I'm aware that the kyu-dan ranking system and use of belt
      colors
      > for ranks is very modern. I seem to remember hearing that it was
      > developed by Jigoro Kano. My thought of the colored obi stemmed
      > not from that, but from the typical SCA customs of white belt for
      > knights, white sash for Masters of Arms, red belt for squires,
      yellow
      > belt for protoges and green belt for apprentices. Using colored obi
      > seemed a way to adapt something from the conventions of our Current
      > Middle Ages instead of trying to find some analogy from the
      Historical
      > Middle Ages. I do not remember the white sashes from Shogun.

      My comment to you regarding the brocade obi was intended to
      discourage you from using brocade obi that look modern (too wide/too
      ornate). Obi in period were simply things that kept your clothes
      closed, and were often not very ornate at all. They were something
      that was to be hidden, not something to signify rank or station.
      That is why I suggested the kumihimo cord. Hiraizumi-dono has some
      historical reference to some kind of belt that denotes rank, but I
      don't remember exactly what it is. Perhaps he will respond to this
      when he returns. I am but a woman after all...

      Regarding the sashes, perhaps it was not Shogun. It was some movie
      someone was trying to use as a reference, though. As good as
      Japanese movies tend to be (compared to American
      historical "attempts"), always remember that they are NOT
      documentaries. They take liberties. Be aware of this.

      > Hmm, what about white brocade jimbaori? I know they were worn with
      > armor, but how about with civilian clothing?

      If you can find a period illustration of one worn without armour, you
      have a case!

      > Thank you for the information on the brocades and gauze! Were
      colors
      > always regulated, or was that something more from the Heian and
      > Tokugawa eras? Were colors regulated only for brocades or for solid
      > colored, unpatterned fabrics?

      The idea of regulating colour according to rank came over with the
      Chinese envoys practically at the beginning of Japanese recorded
      history. It persists in some form even to this day. You see, there
      is a reason the new princess didn't wear a red karaginu with her
      bridal outfit... She's not noble! But as far as wide-spread use, I
      know that the rank restrictions changed but remained intact
      throughout intervening years until the Meiji Restoration (1868) at
      least. So colour has always played a big role in who you are and who
      you are "allowed" to be in Japan... This goes far beyond "royal
      purple" and "white after Labour Day"...

      Aoi
    • Barbara Nostrand
      Noble Cousins! As I recall, the colours of the imperial court ossified sometime during the Heian period at the latest. The colours, kabane, cap ranks, &c.
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 11, 2000
        Noble Cousins!

        As I recall, the colours of the imperial court ossified sometime during
        the Heian period at the latest. The colours, kabane, cap ranks, &c.
        slosh around a bit during the time period recorded by the Nihongi, but
        later on, the imperial court stuff was thoroughly frozen as the real
        political action mainly moved elsewhere.

        Incidentally, you will note that in general, the bushi (even the
        daimyo and what naught) are often shown wearing simple black robes.
        This originally comes from their inferior status re. the imperial
        court. The high ranking bushi did (however) emulate the kuge to
        some extent. GAK. I wish that I had my library here. I could start
        thumbing through pictures. That part of the library never came out
        of storage this year. SIGH One great reference which both Baron
        Edward and I have (actually he has more issues than I have) is
        the rekishi besatsu series that came out ca 1988-1989. It was
        really great. It was full of photographs from museums and what not.
        Sadly, it is very much out of print, so no you can't get copies of it.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throdnardottir
        Amateur Scholar

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      • Barbara Nostrand
        Noble Cousins! My bradley email address stopped working sometime in the last several hours. I do not know whether it will be turned back on again. You should
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 15, 2000
          Noble Cousins!

          My bradley email address stopped working sometime in the last several
          hours. I do not know whether it will be turned back on again. You
          should in general send mail to me at mailto:nostrand@...
          Thank you very much for indulging this piece of email.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
          --
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          | de Moivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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