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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie

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  • Solveig
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment under U.S. copyright law. Further,
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
      >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
      >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
      >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
      >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
      >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
      >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
      >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
      >outcome was.

      By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
      under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
      is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
      sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

      What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
      the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
      analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

      (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
      | the trash by my email filters. |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
    • Elaine Koogler
      I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics,
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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        I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

        Kiri

        Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
        You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
        You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
        You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
        >
        > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Solveig
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:30 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
        >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
        >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
        >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
        >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
        >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
        >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
        >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
        >outcome was.

        By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
        under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
        is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
        sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

        What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
        the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
        analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

        (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
        --

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
        | the trash by my email filters. |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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      • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
        Konnichi wa, As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on copyright... ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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          Konnichi wa,
          As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on
          copyright...
          ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people can
          see. What else is the point, if people don't see it...but I realy do
          believe ethically that people should credit their sources.
          For the production crew to say "their" prop department did the
          work...that is problematical - By contract, Jaap technically did work
          for them...but the facts were distorted when they reported their
          numbers...and it made it seem that it was an in-house crew that did
          the work, rather than hired-out professional labour.
          Plus, movie props are not made just like the real things - resin
          quivers are not like real ones...
          Is Jaap's work copyrightable? Why, to a degree, yes...
          He makes production yumi for the world. A bow, by and large, is
          already common domain, but his technique is protected, and the actual
          work he did should be credited to him. Jaap obviously did not invent
          the yumi...but he learned from a very good historical liniage, and his
          particular personal additions to the process are his alone...no one
          can take credit for them.
          But he did contract the bows he made to be used for the movie crew as
          they say fit.

          Will I still go see the movie...of course. Yumi is a big boy...I just
          wish that the movie folk chose to give him some sort of credit. All I
          can do as a friend and an ethical artist is to let people know who did
          the real work. Jaap would do the same for me. We have known each other
          long enough to feel comfortable in that...
          Enough ranting...

          Date Saburou Yukiie
          Yama Kaminari Ryu
          shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
          http://www.kabutographics.com
          kabuto@...


          >but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without
          bothering to credit him for the usage.
        • Solveig
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I wrote that it is a sin against scholarship . That is, they did a sholarly NO-NO. They should be scolded and
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig!

            >I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by
            >another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is
            >actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than
            >law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in
            >law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

            I wrote that it is "a sin against scholarship". That is, they did a sholarly
            NO-NO. They should be scolded and possibly discredited. However, they probably
            did not violate copyright.

            As for Yaap. He created what is known as a "work made for hire" and the
            copyright belongs to the movie studio that hired him. Do I think that the
            movie studio acted like scoundrels. Absolutely. After sitting through minuttes
            of credits for a movie which include the names of each of the tutors for
            child actors, the name of the catering service, the name of the legal services,
            the names of historical consultants and dialect coaches, I do think that they
            could have included Yaap among a list of "armourers" in the credits.
            --

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
            | the trash by my email filters. |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          • klaus1526
            ... matter... ... thought, but ... Sphere did. ... Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in soul . I was never engaged in the movie and really didn t care
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 4, 2003
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              > I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject
              matter...
              > I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you
              thought, but
              > it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and
              Sphere did.
              > Ok, I'll stop now...
              >
              > Kagesue


              Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in "soul". I was never engaged
              in the movie and really didn't care about the characters. I did read
              the book, and it was, as usual, far better than the movie.
              It seems the Timeline was made for the 12-13yr olds and didn't have
              good acting or dialogue. It was a disappointment.

              KlausH
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