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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie

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  • Elaine Koogler
    It s not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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      It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the outcome was.

      Kiri


      Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
      You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
      You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
      You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
      >
      > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:42 PM
      Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


      Hiraizumi-sensei,
      I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
      few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
      industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
      inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
      outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
      Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
      in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
      samurai movie with white guys in it...
      Baka Gaijin...
      He just returned from China, where he did the opening
      ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
      you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
      yumi...hehehe...)

      Date Saburou Yukiie
      Yama Kaminari Ryu
      Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
      http://www.kabutographics.com
      kabuto@...


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    • Solveig
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment under U.S. copyright law. Further,
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
        >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
        >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
        >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
        >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
        >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
        >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
        >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
        >outcome was.

        By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
        under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
        is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
        sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

        What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
        the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
        analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

        (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
        --

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
        | the trash by my email filters. |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      • Elaine Koogler
        I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics,
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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          I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

          Kiri

          Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
          You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
          You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
          You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
          >
          > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Solveig
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:30 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
          >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
          >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
          >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
          >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
          >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
          >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
          >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
          >outcome was.

          By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
          under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
          is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
          sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

          What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
          the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
          analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

          (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
          --

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
          | the trash by my email filters. |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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        • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
          Konnichi wa, As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on copyright... ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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            Konnichi wa,
            As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on
            copyright...
            ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people can
            see. What else is the point, if people don't see it...but I realy do
            believe ethically that people should credit their sources.
            For the production crew to say "their" prop department did the
            work...that is problematical - By contract, Jaap technically did work
            for them...but the facts were distorted when they reported their
            numbers...and it made it seem that it was an in-house crew that did
            the work, rather than hired-out professional labour.
            Plus, movie props are not made just like the real things - resin
            quivers are not like real ones...
            Is Jaap's work copyrightable? Why, to a degree, yes...
            He makes production yumi for the world. A bow, by and large, is
            already common domain, but his technique is protected, and the actual
            work he did should be credited to him. Jaap obviously did not invent
            the yumi...but he learned from a very good historical liniage, and his
            particular personal additions to the process are his alone...no one
            can take credit for them.
            But he did contract the bows he made to be used for the movie crew as
            they say fit.

            Will I still go see the movie...of course. Yumi is a big boy...I just
            wish that the movie folk chose to give him some sort of credit. All I
            can do as a friend and an ethical artist is to let people know who did
            the real work. Jaap would do the same for me. We have known each other
            long enough to feel comfortable in that...
            Enough ranting...

            Date Saburou Yukiie
            Yama Kaminari Ryu
            shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
            http://www.kabutographics.com
            kabuto@...


            >but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without
            bothering to credit him for the usage.
          • Solveig
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I wrote that it is a sin against scholarship . That is, they did a sholarly NO-NO. They should be scolded and
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!

              >I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by
              >another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is
              >actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than
              >law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in
              >law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

              I wrote that it is "a sin against scholarship". That is, they did a sholarly
              NO-NO. They should be scolded and possibly discredited. However, they probably
              did not violate copyright.

              As for Yaap. He created what is known as a "work made for hire" and the
              copyright belongs to the movie studio that hired him. Do I think that the
              movie studio acted like scoundrels. Absolutely. After sitting through minuttes
              of credits for a movie which include the names of each of the tutors for
              child actors, the name of the catering service, the name of the legal services,
              the names of historical consultants and dialect coaches, I do think that they
              could have included Yaap among a list of "armourers" in the credits.
              --

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            • klaus1526
              ... matter... ... thought, but ... Sphere did. ... Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in soul . I was never engaged in the movie and really didn t care
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 4, 2003
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                > I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject
                matter...
                > I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you
                thought, but
                > it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and
                Sphere did.
                > Ok, I'll stop now...
                >
                > Kagesue


                Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in "soul". I was never engaged
                in the movie and really didn't care about the characters. I did read
                the book, and it was, as usual, far better than the movie.
                It seems the Timeline was made for the 12-13yr olds and didn't have
                good acting or dialogue. It was a disappointment.

                KlausH
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