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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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      Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:
      > Sir Koredono,
      > Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They
      > are, in his words, "Movie-bows" they are shaped like real yumi,
      > and are bamboo, but are weak, not tillered at all, and are spray-
      > painted instead of properly lacquered...Not fit for shooting, but
      > would look good for court functions...
      >
      > An interesting thing to note is that when reading the hollywood
      > script book...they take credit by saying..."Our prop department
      > made 200 bows exactly like the real ones were made..."
      >
      > They did not give Yumi any credit at all for it - and he would have
      > had to pay $6000.00 to get a single line movie credit as an
      > armorer...It is a wierd industry...

      LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could
      provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military camp
      /field equipment. Sent a pile of URLs and some reference sources and materials,
      and never heard back. Sigh.

      Effingham
    • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
      Hiraizumi-sensei, I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie industry
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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        Hiraizumi-sensei,
        I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
        few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
        industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
        inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
        outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
        Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
        in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
        samurai movie with white guys in it...
        Baka Gaijin...
        He just returned from China, where he did the opening
        ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
        you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
        yumi...hehehe...)

        Date Saburou Yukiie
        Yama Kaminari Ryu
        Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
        http://www.kabutographics.com
        kabuto@...
      • Elaine Koogler
        It s not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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          It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the outcome was.

          Kiri


          Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
          You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
          You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
          You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
          >
          > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:42 PM
          Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


          Hiraizumi-sensei,
          I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
          few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
          industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
          inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
          outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
          Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
          in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
          samurai movie with white guys in it...
          Baka Gaijin...
          He just returned from China, where he did the opening
          ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
          you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
          yumi...hehehe...)

          Date Saburou Yukiie
          Yama Kaminari Ryu
          Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
          http://www.kabutographics.com
          kabuto@...


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Solveig
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment under U.S. copyright law. Further,
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig!

            >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
            >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
            >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
            >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
            >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
            >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
            >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
            >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
            >outcome was.

            By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
            under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
            is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
            sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

            What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
            the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
            analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

            (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
            --

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
            | the trash by my email filters. |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          • Elaine Koogler
            I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics,
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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              I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

              Kiri

              Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
              You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
              You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
              You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
              >
              > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Solveig
              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!

              >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
              >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
              >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
              >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
              >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
              >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
              >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
              >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
              >outcome was.

              By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
              under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
              is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
              sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

              What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
              the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
              analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

              (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
              --

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




              UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
              Konnichi wa, As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on copyright... ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                Konnichi wa,
                As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on
                copyright...
                ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people can
                see. What else is the point, if people don't see it...but I realy do
                believe ethically that people should credit their sources.
                For the production crew to say "their" prop department did the
                work...that is problematical - By contract, Jaap technically did work
                for them...but the facts were distorted when they reported their
                numbers...and it made it seem that it was an in-house crew that did
                the work, rather than hired-out professional labour.
                Plus, movie props are not made just like the real things - resin
                quivers are not like real ones...
                Is Jaap's work copyrightable? Why, to a degree, yes...
                He makes production yumi for the world. A bow, by and large, is
                already common domain, but his technique is protected, and the actual
                work he did should be credited to him. Jaap obviously did not invent
                the yumi...but he learned from a very good historical liniage, and his
                particular personal additions to the process are his alone...no one
                can take credit for them.
                But he did contract the bows he made to be used for the movie crew as
                they say fit.

                Will I still go see the movie...of course. Yumi is a big boy...I just
                wish that the movie folk chose to give him some sort of credit. All I
                can do as a friend and an ethical artist is to let people know who did
                the real work. Jaap would do the same for me. We have known each other
                long enough to feel comfortable in that...
                Enough ranting...

                Date Saburou Yukiie
                Yama Kaminari Ryu
                shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
                http://www.kabutographics.com
                kabuto@...


                >but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without
                bothering to credit him for the usage.
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I wrote that it is a sin against scholarship . That is, they did a sholarly NO-NO. They should be scolded and
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig!

                  >I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by
                  >another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is
                  >actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than
                  >law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in
                  >law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                  I wrote that it is "a sin against scholarship". That is, they did a sholarly
                  NO-NO. They should be scolded and possibly discredited. However, they probably
                  did not violate copyright.

                  As for Yaap. He created what is known as a "work made for hire" and the
                  copyright belongs to the movie studio that hired him. Do I think that the
                  movie studio acted like scoundrels. Absolutely. After sitting through minuttes
                  of credits for a movie which include the names of each of the tutors for
                  child actors, the name of the catering service, the name of the legal services,
                  the names of historical consultants and dialect coaches, I do think that they
                  could have included Yaap among a list of "armourers" in the credits.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                • klaus1526
                  ... matter... ... thought, but ... Sphere did. ... Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in soul . I was never engaged in the movie and really didn t care
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 4, 2003
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                    > I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject
                    matter...
                    > I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you
                    thought, but
                    > it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and
                    Sphere did.
                    > Ok, I'll stop now...
                    >
                    > Kagesue


                    Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in "soul". I was never engaged
                    in the movie and really didn't care about the characters. I did read
                    the book, and it was, as usual, far better than the movie.
                    It seems the Timeline was made for the 12-13yr olds and didn't have
                    good acting or dialogue. It was a disappointment.

                    KlausH
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