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RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie

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  • Anthony Thompson
    From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it was based, though I can t be sure... I haven t read it yet. Also, I heard... a
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
      From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
      was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
      heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
      the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

      >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
      >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
      >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
      >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
      >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
      >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
      >have been four movies over four years.

      Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
      later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
      a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
      now that's just mean.

      >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
      >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

      I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
      I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
      it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
      Ok, I'll stop now...

      Kagesue
    • Elaine Koogler
      I haven t seen either Last Samurai or Master and Commander yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend. However, we did receive the deluxe set of
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
        I haven't seen either "Last Samurai" or "Master and Commander" yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend.

        However, we did receive the deluxe set of "The Two Towers". There was a lot of additional material in the movie that was not in the theatrical release...most of which served to explain some of the events. It really made for a much better movie.

        Kiri

        Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
        You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
        You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
        You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
        >
        > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Anthony Thompson
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:26 PM
        Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


        From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
        was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
        heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
        the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

        >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
        >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
        >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
        >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
        >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
        >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
        >have been four movies over four years.

        Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
        later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
        a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
        now that's just mean.

        >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
        >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

        I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
        I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
        it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
        Ok, I'll stop now...

        Kagesue



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      • Solveig
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander. -- Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander.
          --

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
          | the trash by my email filters. |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
            Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:
            > Sir Koredono,
            > Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They
            > are, in his words, "Movie-bows" they are shaped like real yumi,
            > and are bamboo, but are weak, not tillered at all, and are spray-
            > painted instead of properly lacquered...Not fit for shooting, but
            > would look good for court functions...
            >
            > An interesting thing to note is that when reading the hollywood
            > script book...they take credit by saying..."Our prop department
            > made 200 bows exactly like the real ones were made..."
            >
            > They did not give Yumi any credit at all for it - and he would have
            > had to pay $6000.00 to get a single line movie credit as an
            > armorer...It is a wierd industry...

            LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could
            provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military camp
            /field equipment. Sent a pile of URLs and some reference sources and materials,
            and never heard back. Sigh.

            Effingham
          • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
            Hiraizumi-sensei, I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie industry
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
              Hiraizumi-sensei,
              I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
              few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
              industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
              inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
              outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
              Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
              in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
              samurai movie with white guys in it...
              Baka Gaijin...
              He just returned from China, where he did the opening
              ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
              you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
              yumi...hehehe...)

              Date Saburou Yukiie
              Yama Kaminari Ryu
              Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
              http://www.kabutographics.com
              kabuto@...
            • Elaine Koogler
              It s not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
                It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the outcome was.

                Kiri


                Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                >
                > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:42 PM
                Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                Hiraizumi-sensei,
                I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
                few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
                industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
                inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
                outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
                Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
                in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
                samurai movie with white guys in it...
                Baka Gaijin...
                He just returned from China, where he did the opening
                ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
                you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
                yumi...hehehe...)

                Date Saburou Yukiie
                Yama Kaminari Ryu
                Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
                http://www.kabutographics.com
                kabuto@...


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              • Solveig
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment under U.S. copyright law. Further,
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig!

                  >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                  >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                  >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                  >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                  >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                  >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                  >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                  >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                  >outcome was.

                  By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                  under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                  is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                  sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                  What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                  the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                  analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                  (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                • Elaine Koogler
                  I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
                    I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                    Kiri

                    Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                    You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                    You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                    You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                    >
                    > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Solveig
                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:30 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig!

                    >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                    >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                    >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                    >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                    >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                    >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                    >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                    >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                    >outcome was.

                    By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                    under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                    is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                    sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                    What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                    the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                    analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                    (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                    --

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar

                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                    | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                    | the trash by my email filters. |
                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    ADVERTISEMENT




                    UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                    Konnichi wa, As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on copyright... ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
                      Konnichi wa,
                      As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on
                      copyright...
                      ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people can
                      see. What else is the point, if people don't see it...but I realy do
                      believe ethically that people should credit their sources.
                      For the production crew to say "their" prop department did the
                      work...that is problematical - By contract, Jaap technically did work
                      for them...but the facts were distorted when they reported their
                      numbers...and it made it seem that it was an in-house crew that did
                      the work, rather than hired-out professional labour.
                      Plus, movie props are not made just like the real things - resin
                      quivers are not like real ones...
                      Is Jaap's work copyrightable? Why, to a degree, yes...
                      He makes production yumi for the world. A bow, by and large, is
                      already common domain, but his technique is protected, and the actual
                      work he did should be credited to him. Jaap obviously did not invent
                      the yumi...but he learned from a very good historical liniage, and his
                      particular personal additions to the process are his alone...no one
                      can take credit for them.
                      But he did contract the bows he made to be used for the movie crew as
                      they say fit.

                      Will I still go see the movie...of course. Yumi is a big boy...I just
                      wish that the movie folk chose to give him some sort of credit. All I
                      can do as a friend and an ethical artist is to let people know who did
                      the real work. Jaap would do the same for me. We have known each other
                      long enough to feel comfortable in that...
                      Enough ranting...

                      Date Saburou Yukiie
                      Yama Kaminari Ryu
                      shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
                      http://www.kabutographics.com
                      kabuto@...


                      >but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without
                      bothering to credit him for the usage.
                    • Solveig
                      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I wrote that it is a sin against scholarship . That is, they did a sholarly NO-NO. They should be scolded and
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
                        Noble Cousin!

                        Greetings from Solveig!

                        >I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by
                        >another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is
                        >actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than
                        >law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in
                        >law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                        I wrote that it is "a sin against scholarship". That is, they did a sholarly
                        NO-NO. They should be scolded and possibly discredited. However, they probably
                        did not violate copyright.

                        As for Yaap. He created what is known as a "work made for hire" and the
                        copyright belongs to the movie studio that hired him. Do I think that the
                        movie studio acted like scoundrels. Absolutely. After sitting through minuttes
                        of credits for a movie which include the names of each of the tutors for
                        child actors, the name of the catering service, the name of the legal services,
                        the names of historical consultants and dialect coaches, I do think that they
                        could have included Yaap among a list of "armourers" in the credits.
                        --

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar

                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                        | the trash by my email filters. |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      • klaus1526
                        ... matter... ... thought, but ... Sphere did. ... Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in soul . I was never engaged in the movie and really didn t care
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 4, 2003
                          > I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject
                          matter...
                          > I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you
                          thought, but
                          > it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and
                          Sphere did.
                          > Ok, I'll stop now...
                          >
                          > Kagesue


                          Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in "soul". I was never engaged
                          in the movie and really didn't care about the characters. I did read
                          the book, and it was, as usual, far better than the movie.
                          It seems the Timeline was made for the 12-13yr olds and didn't have
                          good acting or dialogue. It was a disappointment.

                          KlausH
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