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[SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie

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  • Solveig
    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Noble Cousins!

      Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
      Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
      Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
      early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
      and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
      soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
      have been four movies over four years.

      As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
      scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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    • Choronzey, Marc
      The trailer to Return of the King you mean? or a trailer scene in the movie itself? You can see the 1st trailer on Lordoftherings.net if that s what you re
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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        The trailer to Return of the King you mean? or a "trailer scene" in the
        movie itself?

        You can see the 1st trailer on Lordoftherings.net if that's what you're
        looking for.

        -Marc Choronzey
        OFA, Bell Mobility, Montreal.
        work: 514.495.5343
        Page : 514.414.0907
        Cell : 514.917.4764

        > -----Message d'origine-----
        > De: Solveig
        > Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:12 AM
        > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        > Objet: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie
        >
        > Noble Cousins!
        >
        > Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
        > Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
        > Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
        > early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
        > and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
        > soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
        > have been four movies over four years.
        >
        > As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the
        > trailer
        > scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.
        > --
        >
        > Your Humble Servant
        > Solveig Throndardottir
        > Amateur Scholar
        >
        > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        > | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
        > | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
        > | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
        > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        > | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
        > | the trash by my email filters. |
        > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        >
        >
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        >
      • Anthony Thompson
        From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it was based, though I can t be sure... I haven t read it yet. Also, I heard... a
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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          From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
          was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
          heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
          the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

          >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
          >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
          >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
          >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
          >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
          >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
          >have been four movies over four years.

          Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
          later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
          a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
          now that's just mean.

          >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
          >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

          I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
          I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
          it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
          Ok, I'll stop now...

          Kagesue
        • Elaine Koogler
          I haven t seen either Last Samurai or Master and Commander yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend. However, we did receive the deluxe set of
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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            I haven't seen either "Last Samurai" or "Master and Commander" yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend.

            However, we did receive the deluxe set of "The Two Towers". There was a lot of additional material in the movie that was not in the theatrical release...most of which served to explain some of the events. It really made for a much better movie.

            Kiri

            Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
            You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
            You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
            You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
            >
            > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Anthony Thompson
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:26 PM
            Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


            From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
            was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
            heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
            the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

            >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
            >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
            >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
            >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
            >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
            >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
            >have been four movies over four years.

            Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
            later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
            a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
            now that's just mean.

            >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
            >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

            I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
            I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
            it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
            Ok, I'll stop now...

            Kagesue



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          • Solveig
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander. -- Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander.
              --

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:
                > Sir Koredono,
                > Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They
                > are, in his words, "Movie-bows" they are shaped like real yumi,
                > and are bamboo, but are weak, not tillered at all, and are spray-
                > painted instead of properly lacquered...Not fit for shooting, but
                > would look good for court functions...
                >
                > An interesting thing to note is that when reading the hollywood
                > script book...they take credit by saying..."Our prop department
                > made 200 bows exactly like the real ones were made..."
                >
                > They did not give Yumi any credit at all for it - and he would have
                > had to pay $6000.00 to get a single line movie credit as an
                > armorer...It is a wierd industry...

                LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could
                provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military camp
                /field equipment. Sent a pile of URLs and some reference sources and materials,
                and never heard back. Sigh.

                Effingham
              • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                Hiraizumi-sensei, I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie industry
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                  Hiraizumi-sensei,
                  I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
                  few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
                  industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
                  inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
                  outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
                  Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
                  in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
                  samurai movie with white guys in it...
                  Baka Gaijin...
                  He just returned from China, where he did the opening
                  ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
                  you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
                  yumi...hehehe...)

                  Date Saburou Yukiie
                  Yama Kaminari Ryu
                  Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
                  http://www.kabutographics.com
                  kabuto@...
                • Elaine Koogler
                  It s not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                    It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the outcome was.

                    Kiri


                    Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                    You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                    You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                    You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                    >
                    > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:42 PM
                    Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                    Hiraizumi-sensei,
                    I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
                    few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
                    industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
                    inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
                    outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
                    Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
                    in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
                    samurai movie with white guys in it...
                    Baka Gaijin...
                    He just returned from China, where he did the opening
                    ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
                    you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
                    yumi...hehehe...)

                    Date Saburou Yukiie
                    Yama Kaminari Ryu
                    Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
                    http://www.kabutographics.com
                    kabuto@...


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                  • Solveig
                    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment under U.S. copyright law. Further,
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                      Noble Cousin!

                      Greetings from Solveig!

                      >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                      >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                      >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                      >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                      >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                      >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                      >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                      >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                      >outcome was.

                      By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                      under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                      is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                      sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                      What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                      the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                      analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                      (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                      --

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar

                      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                      | the trash by my email filters. |
                      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    • Elaine Koogler
                      I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics,
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                        I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                        Kiri

                        Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                        You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                        You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                        You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                        >
                        > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Solveig
                        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:30 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                        Noble Cousin!

                        Greetings from Solveig!

                        >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                        >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                        >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                        >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                        >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                        >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                        >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                        >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                        >outcome was.

                        By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                        under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                        is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                        sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                        What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                        the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                        analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                        (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                        --

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar

                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                        | the trash by my email filters. |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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                      • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                        Konnichi wa, As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on copyright... ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                          Konnichi wa,
                          As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on
                          copyright...
                          ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people can
                          see. What else is the point, if people don't see it...but I realy do
                          believe ethically that people should credit their sources.
                          For the production crew to say "their" prop department did the
                          work...that is problematical - By contract, Jaap technically did work
                          for them...but the facts were distorted when they reported their
                          numbers...and it made it seem that it was an in-house crew that did
                          the work, rather than hired-out professional labour.
                          Plus, movie props are not made just like the real things - resin
                          quivers are not like real ones...
                          Is Jaap's work copyrightable? Why, to a degree, yes...
                          He makes production yumi for the world. A bow, by and large, is
                          already common domain, but his technique is protected, and the actual
                          work he did should be credited to him. Jaap obviously did not invent
                          the yumi...but he learned from a very good historical liniage, and his
                          particular personal additions to the process are his alone...no one
                          can take credit for them.
                          But he did contract the bows he made to be used for the movie crew as
                          they say fit.

                          Will I still go see the movie...of course. Yumi is a big boy...I just
                          wish that the movie folk chose to give him some sort of credit. All I
                          can do as a friend and an ethical artist is to let people know who did
                          the real work. Jaap would do the same for me. We have known each other
                          long enough to feel comfortable in that...
                          Enough ranting...

                          Date Saburou Yukiie
                          Yama Kaminari Ryu
                          shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
                          http://www.kabutographics.com
                          kabuto@...


                          >but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without
                          bothering to credit him for the usage.
                        • Solveig
                          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I wrote that it is a sin against scholarship . That is, they did a sholarly NO-NO. They should be scolded and
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                            Noble Cousin!

                            Greetings from Solveig!

                            >I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by
                            >another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is
                            >actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than
                            >law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in
                            >law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                            I wrote that it is "a sin against scholarship". That is, they did a sholarly
                            NO-NO. They should be scolded and possibly discredited. However, they probably
                            did not violate copyright.

                            As for Yaap. He created what is known as a "work made for hire" and the
                            copyright belongs to the movie studio that hired him. Do I think that the
                            movie studio acted like scoundrels. Absolutely. After sitting through minuttes
                            of credits for a movie which include the names of each of the tutors for
                            child actors, the name of the catering service, the name of the legal services,
                            the names of historical consultants and dialect coaches, I do think that they
                            could have included Yaap among a list of "armourers" in the credits.
                            --

                            Your Humble Servant
                            Solveig Throndardottir
                            Amateur Scholar

                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                            | the trash by my email filters. |
                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                          • klaus1526
                            ... matter... ... thought, but ... Sphere did. ... Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in soul . I was never engaged in the movie and really didn t care
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 4, 2003
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                              > I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject
                              matter...
                              > I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you
                              thought, but
                              > it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and
                              Sphere did.
                              > Ok, I'll stop now...
                              >
                              > Kagesue


                              Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in "soul". I was never engaged
                              in the movie and really didn't care about the characters. I did read
                              the book, and it was, as usual, far better than the movie.
                              It seems the Timeline was made for the 12-13yr olds and didn't have
                              good acting or dialogue. It was a disappointment.

                              KlausH
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