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Re: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie

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  • Pamela Grayer
    ... From: Arthur Raymond To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:50 PM Subject: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie ...
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 29, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Arthur Raymond" <Dragon_III@...>
      To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:50 PM
      Subject: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie


      > Greetings All,
      >
      > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One word
      > "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see. The armor
      > was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad thing
      is
      > now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(
      >
      > In Service
      > Togashi Ichiro
      >
      Lucky you!
      As usual, we in Great Britain have to wait a little longer. I think it's the
      end of December/January for general release here.....
      Michael
      BAJS, Asiatic Society of Japan
    • echo2501
      *laugh* I read about the 7:30pm sneak preview here at 7:45pm. Was kicking myself for about a half hour over that one.
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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        *laugh* I read about the 7:30pm sneak preview here at 7:45pm.

        Was kicking myself for about a half hour over that one.
      • yamashiro_kato
        Konnichiwa. I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I thumbed through the
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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          Konnichiwa.

          I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last
          week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I thumbed
          through the pages, I was impressed. They have some really good
          pictures of the clothes, armor, and weapons. I had to buy it. I am
          sure the garb is "hollywood-ified", but they do have some nice stuff
          that is giving me ideas.

          The book can be found at Amazon if you are interested:
          http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
          /1931933634/qid=1070318935//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/104-9678736-
          9697514?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

          -A nip named Kato

          > Greetings All,
          >
          > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend.
          One word
          > "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see.
          The armor
          > was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad
          thing is
          > now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(
          >
          > In Service
          > Togashi Ichiro
        • makiwara_no_yetsuko
          ... thumbed ... am ... stuff ... On the other hand, the film is set during a period for which photographs exist. One hopes the art and costume designers looked
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "yamashiro_kato"
            <yamashiro_kato@y...> wrote:
            >> I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last
            > week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I
            thumbed
            > through the pages, I was impressed. They have some really good
            > pictures of the clothes, armor, and weapons. I had to buy it. I
            am
            > sure the garb is "hollywood-ified", but they do have some nice
            stuff
            > that is giving me ideas.

            On the other hand, the film is set during a period for which
            photographs exist. One hopes the art and costume designers looked at
            some.

            I'm looking forward to seeing it, though I did get my "things that
            float and go boom" with "Master and Commander" last week.

            Makiwara
          • Donald Luby
            ... Well, we can at least take some modicum of pleasure in the knowledge that the archery equipment was right (if not used right - haven t seen any clips with
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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              On Dec 1, 2003, at 5:54 PM, yamashiro_kato wrote:

              > Konnichiwa.
              >
              > I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last
              > week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I thumbed
              > through the pages, I was impressed. They have some really good
              > pictures of the clothes, armor, and weapons. I had to buy it. I am
              > sure the garb is "hollywood-ified", but they do have some nice stuff
              > that is giving me ideas.

              Well, we can at least take some modicum of pleasure in the knowledge
              that the archery equipment was right (if not used right - haven't seen
              any clips with any archery use actually in it) - from what I was told,
              by the man himself about 2 years ago, Yumi was cntracted to make 100
              yumi for the movie. Now I'm just waiting for the production company to
              sell off all the equipment! :)

              > The book can be found at Amazon if you are interested:
              > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
              > /1931933634/qid=1070318935//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/104-9678736-
              > 9697514?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
              >
              > -A nip named Kato
              >
              >> Greetings All,
              >>
              >> I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend.
              >> One word
              >> "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see. The
              >> armor
              >> was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad
              >> thing is
              >> now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(
              >>
              >> In Service
              >> Togashi Ichiro

              Sir Koredono
            • Brian Dean
              Yeah, i finally got a production screenplay book for the movie,, so i have the stills,, well not all of them but alot, and i will agree,, AWSOME!!! though
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                Yeah, i finally got a production screenplay book for the movie,, so i have
                the stills,, well not all of them but alot, and i will agree,, AWSOME!!!
                though there is a piece of armor that is Definatly Scale, looks cool but
                dont know how period it is. and when i mean scale i mean like dragon scales.



                Onishi Hirotora no Tatsukami








                >From: "Bubba" <mysticz28@...>
                >Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie
                >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:37:07 -0600
                >
                >Arthur Raymond wrote:
                > > Greetings All,
                > >
                > > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One
                > > word "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see.
                > > The armor was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The
                > > only bad thing is now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see
                > > it again :(
                >
                >Now that I have the ability to grab frames from DVDs, I can't wait to get a
                >copy of it (yes, a legal copy). I'll wind up filling the drive with pics of
                >armor and garb and stuff ;)
                >
                >We halfway discussed going on opening day in garb, but figured the locals
                >wouldn't quite understand the armor and swords ;)
                >--
                >Kagemasa
                >mysticz28@...
                >He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
                >
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
                Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage
                now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... I have only seen the previews and I sincerely hope that the movie is more historically accurate than the previews
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  Noble Cousins!

                  Greetings from Solveig!

                  >I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One word
                  >"Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see. The armor
                  >was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad thing is
                  >now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(

                  I have only seen the previews and I sincerely hope that the movie is more
                  historically accurate than the previews suggest. The movie should be set
                  against the backdrop of the Satsuma rebellion. There are photographs of
                  the Satsuma rebellion available in books.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                • Solveig
                  Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                    Noble Cousins!

                    Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                    Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                    Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                    early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                    and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                    soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                    have been four movies over four years.

                    As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
                    scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.
                    --

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar

                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                    | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                    | the trash by my email filters. |
                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                    Sir Koredono, Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They are, in his words, Movie-bows they are shaped like real yumi, and are bamboo, but
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                      Sir Koredono,
                      Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They
                      are, in his words, "Movie-bows" they are shaped like real yumi,
                      and are bamboo, but are weak, not tillered at all, and are spray-
                      painted instead of properly lacquered...Not fit for shooting, but
                      would look good for court functions...

                      An interesting thing to note is that when reading the hollywood
                      script book...they take credit by saying..."Our prop department
                      made 200 bows exactly like the real ones were made..."

                      They did not give Yumi any credit at all for it - and he would have
                      had to pay $6000.00 to get a single line movie credit as an
                      armorer...It is a wierd industry...

                      Yumi himself had three of the cast resin ebira which were used
                      for the movie - the funny thing there was that the resin ebira
                      looked great, but weighed about three times more than a real
                      one would weigh! I believe he is selling them for about $250.00
                      per...(Yikes for a resin repro!!!)

                      Oh well...

                      Date Saburou Yukiie
                      Yama Kaminari Ryu
                      http://www,kabutographics.com
                      kabuto@...


                      > Well, we can at least take some modicum of pleasure in the
                      knowledge
                      > that the archery equipment was right (if not used right - haven't
                      seen
                      > any clips with any archery use actually in it) - from what I was
                      told,
                      > by the man himself about 2 years ago, Yumi was cntracted to
                      make 100
                      > yumi for the movie. Now I'm just waiting for the production
                      company to
                      > sell off all the equipment! :)
                    • echo2501
                      ... locals ... Yeah, I keep flip flopping on going to see it in garb. Not so much for the movie, but it gives me an excuse to go to the movies in some of my
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Bubba" <mysticz28@s...> wrote:
                        > Arthur Raymond wrote:
                        > We halfway discussed going on opening day in garb, but figured the
                        locals
                        > wouldn't quite understand the armor and swords ;)

                        Yeah, I keep flip flopping on going to see it in garb. Not so much
                        for the movie, but it gives me an excuse to go to the movies in some
                        of my most comfortable clothing. ;) Possibly armor, but don't how
                        comfortable that would be at the movies.

                        Comfort... snickering... comfort... snickering... hmmmmm...
                        Will they balance out enough for me?

                        -Luis / Seiichirô
                      • Choronzey, Marc
                        The trailer to Return of the King you mean? or a trailer scene in the movie itself? You can see the 1st trailer on Lordoftherings.net if that s what you re
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                          The trailer to Return of the King you mean? or a "trailer scene" in the
                          movie itself?

                          You can see the 1st trailer on Lordoftherings.net if that's what you're
                          looking for.

                          -Marc Choronzey
                          OFA, Bell Mobility, Montreal.
                          work: 514.495.5343
                          Page : 514.414.0907
                          Cell : 514.917.4764

                          > -----Message d'origine-----
                          > De: Solveig
                          > Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:12 AM
                          > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          > Objet: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie
                          >
                          > Noble Cousins!
                          >
                          > Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                          > Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                          > Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                          > early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                          > and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                          > soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                          > have been four movies over four years.
                          >
                          > As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the
                          > trailer
                          > scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.
                          > --
                          >
                          > Your Humble Servant
                          > Solveig Throndardottir
                          > Amateur Scholar
                          >
                          > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                          > | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                          > | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                          > | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                          > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                          > | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                          > | the trash by my email filters. |
                          > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                          >
                          >
                          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                        • Anthony Thompson
                          From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it was based, though I can t be sure... I haven t read it yet. Also, I heard... a
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                            From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
                            was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
                            heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
                            the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

                            >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                            >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                            >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                            >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                            >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                            >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                            >have been four movies over four years.

                            Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
                            later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
                            a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
                            now that's just mean.

                            >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
                            >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

                            I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
                            I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
                            it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
                            Ok, I'll stop now...

                            Kagesue
                          • Elaine Koogler
                            I haven t seen either Last Samurai or Master and Commander yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend. However, we did receive the deluxe set of
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                              I haven't seen either "Last Samurai" or "Master and Commander" yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend.

                              However, we did receive the deluxe set of "The Two Towers". There was a lot of additional material in the movie that was not in the theatrical release...most of which served to explain some of the events. It really made for a much better movie.

                              Kiri

                              Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                              You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                              You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                              You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                              >
                              > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Anthony Thompson
                              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:26 PM
                              Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                              From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
                              was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
                              heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
                              the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

                              >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                              >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                              >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                              >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                              >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                              >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                              >have been four movies over four years.

                              Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
                              later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
                              a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
                              now that's just mean.

                              >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
                              >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

                              I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
                              I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
                              it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
                              Ok, I'll stop now...

                              Kagesue



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                            • Solveig
                              Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander. -- Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                                Noble Cousin!

                                Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander.
                                --

                                Your Humble Servant
                                Solveig Throndardottir
                                Amateur Scholar

                                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                                | the trash by my email filters. |
                                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                              • Anthony J. Bryant
                                ... LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                  Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:
                                  > Sir Koredono,
                                  > Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They
                                  > are, in his words, "Movie-bows" they are shaped like real yumi,
                                  > and are bamboo, but are weak, not tillered at all, and are spray-
                                  > painted instead of properly lacquered...Not fit for shooting, but
                                  > would look good for court functions...
                                  >
                                  > An interesting thing to note is that when reading the hollywood
                                  > script book...they take credit by saying..."Our prop department
                                  > made 200 bows exactly like the real ones were made..."
                                  >
                                  > They did not give Yumi any credit at all for it - and he would have
                                  > had to pay $6000.00 to get a single line movie credit as an
                                  > armorer...It is a wierd industry...

                                  LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could
                                  provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military camp
                                  /field equipment. Sent a pile of URLs and some reference sources and materials,
                                  and never heard back. Sigh.

                                  Effingham
                                • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                  Hiraizumi-sensei, I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie industry
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                    Hiraizumi-sensei,
                                    I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
                                    few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
                                    industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
                                    inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
                                    outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
                                    Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
                                    in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
                                    samurai movie with white guys in it...
                                    Baka Gaijin...
                                    He just returned from China, where he did the opening
                                    ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
                                    you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
                                    yumi...hehehe...)

                                    Date Saburou Yukiie
                                    Yama Kaminari Ryu
                                    Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
                                    http://www.kabutographics.com
                                    kabuto@...
                                  • Elaine Koogler
                                    It s not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                      It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the outcome was.

                                      Kiri


                                      Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                                      You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                                      You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                                      You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                                      >
                                      > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:42 PM
                                      Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                                      Hiraizumi-sensei,
                                      I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
                                      few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
                                      industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
                                      inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
                                      outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
                                      Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
                                      in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
                                      samurai movie with white guys in it...
                                      Baka Gaijin...
                                      He just returned from China, where he did the opening
                                      ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
                                      you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
                                      yumi...hehehe...)

                                      Date Saburou Yukiie
                                      Yama Kaminari Ryu
                                      Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
                                      http://www.kabutographics.com
                                      kabuto@...


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                                    • Solveig
                                      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment under U.S. copyright law. Further,
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                        Noble Cousin!

                                        Greetings from Solveig!

                                        >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                                        >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                                        >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                                        >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                                        >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                                        >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                                        >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                                        >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                                        >outcome was.

                                        By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                                        under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                                        is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                                        sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                                        What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                                        the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                                        analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                                        (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                                        --

                                        Your Humble Servant
                                        Solveig Throndardottir
                                        Amateur Scholar

                                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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                                      • Elaine Koogler
                                        I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics,
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                          I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                                          Kiri

                                          Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                                          You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                                          You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                                          You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                                          >
                                          > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Solveig
                                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:30 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                                          Noble Cousin!

                                          Greetings from Solveig!

                                          >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                                          >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                                          >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                                          >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                                          >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                                          >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                                          >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                                          >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                                          >outcome was.

                                          By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                                          under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                                          is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                                          sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                                          What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                                          the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                                          analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                                          (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                                          --

                                          Your Humble Servant
                                          Solveig Throndardottir
                                          Amateur Scholar

                                          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                          | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                                          | the trash by my email filters. |
                                          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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                                        • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                          Konnichi wa, As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on copyright... ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                            Konnichi wa,
                                            As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on
                                            copyright...
                                            ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people can
                                            see. What else is the point, if people don't see it...but I realy do
                                            believe ethically that people should credit their sources.
                                            For the production crew to say "their" prop department did the
                                            work...that is problematical - By contract, Jaap technically did work
                                            for them...but the facts were distorted when they reported their
                                            numbers...and it made it seem that it was an in-house crew that did
                                            the work, rather than hired-out professional labour.
                                            Plus, movie props are not made just like the real things - resin
                                            quivers are not like real ones...
                                            Is Jaap's work copyrightable? Why, to a degree, yes...
                                            He makes production yumi for the world. A bow, by and large, is
                                            already common domain, but his technique is protected, and the actual
                                            work he did should be credited to him. Jaap obviously did not invent
                                            the yumi...but he learned from a very good historical liniage, and his
                                            particular personal additions to the process are his alone...no one
                                            can take credit for them.
                                            But he did contract the bows he made to be used for the movie crew as
                                            they say fit.

                                            Will I still go see the movie...of course. Yumi is a big boy...I just
                                            wish that the movie folk chose to give him some sort of credit. All I
                                            can do as a friend and an ethical artist is to let people know who did
                                            the real work. Jaap would do the same for me. We have known each other
                                            long enough to feel comfortable in that...
                                            Enough ranting...

                                            Date Saburou Yukiie
                                            Yama Kaminari Ryu
                                            shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
                                            http://www.kabutographics.com
                                            kabuto@...


                                            >but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without
                                            bothering to credit him for the usage.
                                          • Solveig
                                            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I wrote that it is a sin against scholarship . That is, they did a sholarly NO-NO. They should be scolded and
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                              Noble Cousin!

                                              Greetings from Solveig!

                                              >I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by
                                              >another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is
                                              >actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than
                                              >law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in
                                              >law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                                              I wrote that it is "a sin against scholarship". That is, they did a sholarly
                                              NO-NO. They should be scolded and possibly discredited. However, they probably
                                              did not violate copyright.

                                              As for Yaap. He created what is known as a "work made for hire" and the
                                              copyright belongs to the movie studio that hired him. Do I think that the
                                              movie studio acted like scoundrels. Absolutely. After sitting through minuttes
                                              of credits for a movie which include the names of each of the tutors for
                                              child actors, the name of the catering service, the name of the legal services,
                                              the names of historical consultants and dialect coaches, I do think that they
                                              could have included Yaap among a list of "armourers" in the credits.
                                              --

                                              Your Humble Servant
                                              Solveig Throndardottir
                                              Amateur Scholar

                                              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                                              | the trash by my email filters. |
                                              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                            • klaus1526
                                              ... matter... ... thought, but ... Sphere did. ... Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in soul . I was never engaged in the movie and really didn t care
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Dec 4, 2003
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                                                > I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject
                                                matter...
                                                > I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you
                                                thought, but
                                                > it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and
                                                Sphere did.
                                                > Ok, I'll stop now...
                                                >
                                                > Kagesue


                                                Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in "soul". I was never engaged
                                                in the movie and really didn't care about the characters. I did read
                                                the book, and it was, as usual, far better than the movie.
                                                It seems the Timeline was made for the 12-13yr olds and didn't have
                                                good acting or dialogue. It was a disappointment.

                                                KlausH
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