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Re: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie

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  • Pamela Grayer
    ... From: Arthur Raymond To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:50 PM Subject: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie ...
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 29, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Arthur Raymond" <Dragon_III@...>
      To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:50 PM
      Subject: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie


      > Greetings All,
      >
      > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One word
      > "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see. The armor
      > was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad thing
      is
      > now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(
      >
      > In Service
      > Togashi Ichiro
      >
      Lucky you!
      As usual, we in Great Britain have to wait a little longer. I think it's the
      end of December/January for general release here.....
      Michael
      BAJS, Asiatic Society of Japan
    • Choronzey, Marc
      Well, not on opening night, but in Montreal we are a few of us going in garb. No weapons though. Figured it would be much fun for us. -Marc Choronzey OFA, Bell
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Well, not on opening night, but in Montreal we are a few of us going in
        garb. No weapons though. Figured it would be much fun for us.

        -Marc Choronzey
        OFA, Bell Mobility, Montreal.
        work: 514.495.5343
        Page : 514.414.0907
        Cell : 514.917.4764

        > -----Message d'origine-----
        > De: Bubba [SMTP:mysticz28@...]
        > Date: Monday, December 01, 2003 2:37 PM
        > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        > Objet: Re: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie
        >
        > Arthur Raymond wrote:
        > > Greetings All,
        > >
        > > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One
        > > word "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see.
        > > The armor was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The
        > > only bad thing is now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see
        > > it again :(
        >
        > Now that I have the ability to grab frames from DVDs, I can't wait to get
        > a
        > copy of it (yes, a legal copy). I'll wind up filling the drive with pics
        > of
        > armor and garb and stuff ;)
        >
        > We halfway discussed going on opening day in garb, but figured the locals
        > wouldn't quite understand the armor and swords ;)
        > --
        > Kagemasa
        > mysticz28@...
        > He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • Bubba
        ... Now that I have the ability to grab frames from DVDs, I can t wait to get a copy of it (yes, a legal copy). I ll wind up filling the drive with pics of
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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          Arthur Raymond wrote:
          > Greetings All,
          >
          > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One
          > word "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see.
          > The armor was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The
          > only bad thing is now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see
          > it again :(

          Now that I have the ability to grab frames from DVDs, I can't wait to get a
          copy of it (yes, a legal copy). I'll wind up filling the drive with pics of
          armor and garb and stuff ;)

          We halfway discussed going on opening day in garb, but figured the locals
          wouldn't quite understand the armor and swords ;)
          --
          Kagemasa
          mysticz28@...
          He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
        • echo2501
          *laugh* I read about the 7:30pm sneak preview here at 7:45pm. Was kicking myself for about a half hour over that one.
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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            *laugh* I read about the 7:30pm sneak preview here at 7:45pm.

            Was kicking myself for about a half hour over that one.
          • yamashiro_kato
            Konnichiwa. I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I thumbed through the
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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              Konnichiwa.

              I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last
              week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I thumbed
              through the pages, I was impressed. They have some really good
              pictures of the clothes, armor, and weapons. I had to buy it. I am
              sure the garb is "hollywood-ified", but they do have some nice stuff
              that is giving me ideas.

              The book can be found at Amazon if you are interested:
              http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
              /1931933634/qid=1070318935//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/104-9678736-
              9697514?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

              -A nip named Kato

              > Greetings All,
              >
              > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend.
              One word
              > "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see.
              The armor
              > was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad
              thing is
              > now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(
              >
              > In Service
              > Togashi Ichiro
            • makiwara_no_yetsuko
              ... thumbed ... am ... stuff ... On the other hand, the film is set during a period for which photographs exist. One hopes the art and costume designers looked
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "yamashiro_kato"
                <yamashiro_kato@y...> wrote:
                >> I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last
                > week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I
                thumbed
                > through the pages, I was impressed. They have some really good
                > pictures of the clothes, armor, and weapons. I had to buy it. I
                am
                > sure the garb is "hollywood-ified", but they do have some nice
                stuff
                > that is giving me ideas.

                On the other hand, the film is set during a period for which
                photographs exist. One hopes the art and costume designers looked at
                some.

                I'm looking forward to seeing it, though I did get my "things that
                float and go boom" with "Master and Commander" last week.

                Makiwara
              • Donald Luby
                ... Well, we can at least take some modicum of pleasure in the knowledge that the archery equipment was right (if not used right - haven t seen any clips with
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  On Dec 1, 2003, at 5:54 PM, yamashiro_kato wrote:

                  > Konnichiwa.
                  >
                  > I accidentally ran across The Last Samurai Movie Guide book last
                  > week. Normally I am not interested in movie guides, but as I thumbed
                  > through the pages, I was impressed. They have some really good
                  > pictures of the clothes, armor, and weapons. I had to buy it. I am
                  > sure the garb is "hollywood-ified", but they do have some nice stuff
                  > that is giving me ideas.

                  Well, we can at least take some modicum of pleasure in the knowledge
                  that the archery equipment was right (if not used right - haven't seen
                  any clips with any archery use actually in it) - from what I was told,
                  by the man himself about 2 years ago, Yumi was cntracted to make 100
                  yumi for the movie. Now I'm just waiting for the production company to
                  sell off all the equipment! :)

                  > The book can be found at Amazon if you are interested:
                  > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                  > /1931933634/qid=1070318935//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/104-9678736-
                  > 9697514?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
                  >
                  > -A nip named Kato
                  >
                  >> Greetings All,
                  >>
                  >> I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend.
                  >> One word
                  >> "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see. The
                  >> armor
                  >> was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad
                  >> thing is
                  >> now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(
                  >>
                  >> In Service
                  >> Togashi Ichiro

                  Sir Koredono
                • Brian Dean
                  Yeah, i finally got a production screenplay book for the movie,, so i have the stills,, well not all of them but alot, and i will agree,, AWSOME!!! though
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                    Yeah, i finally got a production screenplay book for the movie,, so i have
                    the stills,, well not all of them but alot, and i will agree,, AWSOME!!!
                    though there is a piece of armor that is Definatly Scale, looks cool but
                    dont know how period it is. and when i mean scale i mean like dragon scales.



                    Onishi Hirotora no Tatsukami








                    >From: "Bubba" <mysticz28@...>
                    >Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Last Samurai Movie
                    >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:37:07 -0600
                    >
                    >Arthur Raymond wrote:
                    > > Greetings All,
                    > >
                    > > I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One
                    > > word "Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see.
                    > > The armor was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The
                    > > only bad thing is now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see
                    > > it again :(
                    >
                    >Now that I have the ability to grab frames from DVDs, I can't wait to get a
                    >copy of it (yes, a legal copy). I'll wind up filling the drive with pics of
                    >armor and garb and stuff ;)
                    >
                    >We halfway discussed going on opening day in garb, but figured the locals
                    >wouldn't quite understand the armor and swords ;)
                    >--
                    >Kagemasa
                    >mysticz28@...
                    >He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
                    >
                    >

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage
                    now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
                  • Solveig
                    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... I have only seen the previews and I sincerely hope that the movie is more historically accurate than the previews
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                      Noble Cousins!

                      Greetings from Solveig!

                      >I had a chance to see Last Samurai on sneek preview this weekend. One word
                      >"Awesome!" The costumes were really good, as far as I could see. The armor
                      >was wonderful. The action sequences were well filmed. The only bad thing is
                      >now I'm going to have to wait till the 7th to see it again :(

                      I have only seen the previews and I sincerely hope that the movie is more
                      historically accurate than the previews suggest. The movie should be set
                      against the backdrop of the Satsuma rebellion. There are photographs of
                      the Satsuma rebellion available in books.
                      --

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar

                      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                      | the trash by my email filters. |
                      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    • Solveig
                      Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 1, 2003
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                        Noble Cousins!

                        Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                        Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                        Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                        early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                        and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                        soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                        have been four movies over four years.

                        As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
                        scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.
                        --

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar

                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                        | the trash by my email filters. |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                        Sir Koredono, Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They are, in his words, Movie-bows they are shaped like real yumi, and are bamboo, but
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                          Sir Koredono,
                          Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They
                          are, in his words, "Movie-bows" they are shaped like real yumi,
                          and are bamboo, but are weak, not tillered at all, and are spray-
                          painted instead of properly lacquered...Not fit for shooting, but
                          would look good for court functions...

                          An interesting thing to note is that when reading the hollywood
                          script book...they take credit by saying..."Our prop department
                          made 200 bows exactly like the real ones were made..."

                          They did not give Yumi any credit at all for it - and he would have
                          had to pay $6000.00 to get a single line movie credit as an
                          armorer...It is a wierd industry...

                          Yumi himself had three of the cast resin ebira which were used
                          for the movie - the funny thing there was that the resin ebira
                          looked great, but weighed about three times more than a real
                          one would weigh! I believe he is selling them for about $250.00
                          per...(Yikes for a resin repro!!!)

                          Oh well...

                          Date Saburou Yukiie
                          Yama Kaminari Ryu
                          http://www,kabutographics.com
                          kabuto@...


                          > Well, we can at least take some modicum of pleasure in the
                          knowledge
                          > that the archery equipment was right (if not used right - haven't
                          seen
                          > any clips with any archery use actually in it) - from what I was
                          told,
                          > by the man himself about 2 years ago, Yumi was cntracted to
                          make 100
                          > yumi for the movie. Now I'm just waiting for the production
                          company to
                          > sell off all the equipment! :)
                        • echo2501
                          ... locals ... Yeah, I keep flip flopping on going to see it in garb. Not so much for the movie, but it gives me an excuse to go to the movies in some of my
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Bubba" <mysticz28@s...> wrote:
                            > Arthur Raymond wrote:
                            > We halfway discussed going on opening day in garb, but figured the
                            locals
                            > wouldn't quite understand the armor and swords ;)

                            Yeah, I keep flip flopping on going to see it in garb. Not so much
                            for the movie, but it gives me an excuse to go to the movies in some
                            of my most comfortable clothing. ;) Possibly armor, but don't how
                            comfortable that would be at the movies.

                            Comfort... snickering... comfort... snickering... hmmmmm...
                            Will they balance out enough for me?

                            -Luis / Seiichirô
                          • Choronzey, Marc
                            The trailer to Return of the King you mean? or a trailer scene in the movie itself? You can see the 1st trailer on Lordoftherings.net if that s what you re
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                              The trailer to Return of the King you mean? or a "trailer scene" in the
                              movie itself?

                              You can see the 1st trailer on Lordoftherings.net if that's what you're
                              looking for.

                              -Marc Choronzey
                              OFA, Bell Mobility, Montreal.
                              work: 514.495.5343
                              Page : 514.414.0907
                              Cell : 514.917.4764

                              > -----Message d'origine-----
                              > De: Solveig
                              > Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:12 AM
                              > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                              > Objet: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie
                              >
                              > Noble Cousins!
                              >
                              > Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                              > Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                              > Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                              > early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                              > and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                              > soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                              > have been four movies over four years.
                              >
                              > As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the
                              > trailer
                              > scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.
                              > --
                              >
                              > Your Humble Servant
                              > Solveig Throndardottir
                              > Amateur Scholar
                              >
                              > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                              > | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                              > | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                              > | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                              > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                              > | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                              > | the trash by my email filters. |
                              > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                              >
                              >
                              > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                            • Anthony Thompson
                              From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it was based, though I can t be sure... I haven t read it yet. Also, I heard... a
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                                From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
                                was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
                                heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
                                the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

                                >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                                >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                                >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                                >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                                >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                                >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                                >have been four movies over four years.

                                Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
                                later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
                                a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
                                now that's just mean.

                                >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
                                >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

                                I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
                                I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
                                it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
                                Ok, I'll stop now...

                                Kagesue
                              • Elaine Koogler
                                I haven t seen either Last Samurai or Master and Commander yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend. However, we did receive the deluxe set of
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                                  I haven't seen either "Last Samurai" or "Master and Commander" yet...I hope to see at least one of them this weekend.

                                  However, we did receive the deluxe set of "The Two Towers". There was a lot of additional material in the movie that was not in the theatrical release...most of which served to explain some of the events. It really made for a much better movie.

                                  Kiri

                                  Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                                  You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                                  You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                                  You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                                  >
                                  > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Anthony Thompson
                                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:26 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                                  From what I understand, the movie was fairly close to the book from which it
                                  was based, though I can't be sure... I haven't read it yet. Also, I
                                  heard... a large rumor mind you, that Peter Jackson was thinking of making
                                  the Hobbit. Mind you this was a rumor, so don't hold me on it.

                                  >Greetings from Solveig! Master and Commander is the Napoleonic Wars meets
                                  >Moby Dick. I rather enjoyed the movie, but started thinking of captain
                                  >Ahab meets the voyage of the Beagle during the Napoleonic wars rather
                                  >early on during the movie. Yes. It was great fun to see things that float
                                  >and go boom. Now then. We also get to see Lord of the Rings III fairly
                                  >soon. I am a bit annoyed that they didn't to The Hobit as well. That would
                                  >have been four movies over four years.

                                  Yeah, movie makers do that a lot. They put scenes into a trailer, only to
                                  later take them out for story or time reasons. Sometimes movie makers shoot
                                  a part of the movie just to put into the trailer and not the actual film...
                                  now that's just mean.

                                  >As for Master and Commander, did anyone see a version which had the trailer
                                  >scene in it? The one I saw did not have the trailer scene in the movie.

                                  I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject matter...
                                  I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you thought, but
                                  it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and Sphere did.
                                  Ok, I'll stop now...

                                  Kagesue



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                                • Solveig
                                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander. -- Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                                    Noble Cousin!

                                    Greetings from Solveig! I ment the trailer for Master and Commander.
                                    --

                                    Your Humble Servant
                                    Solveig Throndardottir
                                    Amateur Scholar

                                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                    | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                    | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                    | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                                    | the trash by my email filters. |
                                    +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                  • Anthony J. Bryant
                                    ... LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                      Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:
                                      > Sir Koredono,
                                      > Yumi did indeed make 100 bows for the production, but They
                                      > are, in his words, "Movie-bows" they are shaped like real yumi,
                                      > and are bamboo, but are weak, not tillered at all, and are spray-
                                      > painted instead of properly lacquered...Not fit for shooting, but
                                      > would look good for court functions...
                                      >
                                      > An interesting thing to note is that when reading the hollywood
                                      > script book...they take credit by saying..."Our prop department
                                      > made 200 bows exactly like the real ones were made..."
                                      >
                                      > They did not give Yumi any credit at all for it - and he would have
                                      > had to pay $6000.00 to get a single line movie credit as an
                                      > armorer...It is a wierd industry...

                                      LOL! I can relate. About a year and a half ago I got an e-mail asking if I could
                                      provide their art director with some info on bakumatsu Japanese military camp
                                      /field equipment. Sent a pile of URLs and some reference sources and materials,
                                      and never heard back. Sigh.

                                      Effingham
                                    • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                      Hiraizumi-sensei, I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie industry
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                        Hiraizumi-sensei,
                                        I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
                                        few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
                                        industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
                                        inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
                                        outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
                                        Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
                                        in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
                                        samurai movie with white guys in it...
                                        Baka Gaijin...
                                        He just returned from China, where he did the opening
                                        ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
                                        you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
                                        yumi...hehehe...)

                                        Date Saburou Yukiie
                                        Yama Kaminari Ryu
                                        Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
                                        http://www.kabutographics.com
                                        kabuto@...
                                      • Elaine Koogler
                                        It s not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                          It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back, Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the outcome was.

                                          Kiri


                                          Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                                          You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                                          You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                                          You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                                          >
                                          > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:42 PM
                                          Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                                          Hiraizumi-sensei,
                                          I did two full suits of armor and two kabuto for the movie folk a
                                          few years ago. I got paid well enough, but found that the movie
                                          industry likes to take credit for more than they do...and are dis-
                                          inclined to give even a bone or two to those who they consider
                                          outside their world...even if they did the actual work...
                                          Jaap (Yumi) knew what he was doing, is does not feel slighted
                                          in any way...he has bigger projects in the works than a hollywood
                                          samurai movie with white guys in it...
                                          Baka Gaijin...
                                          He just returned from China, where he did the opening
                                          ceremonies for the International Asian Archery Festival...I can get
                                          you the URLs if you like... (now he can start on my shigeto-
                                          yumi...hehehe...)

                                          Date Saburou Yukiie
                                          Yama Kaminari Ryu
                                          Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
                                          http://www.kabutographics.com
                                          kabuto@...


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                                        • Solveig
                                          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment under U.S. copyright law. Further,
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                            Noble Cousin!

                                            Greetings from Solveig!

                                            >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                                            >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                                            >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                                            >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                                            >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                                            >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                                            >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                                            >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                                            >outcome was.

                                            By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                                            under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                                            is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                                            sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                                            What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                                            the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                                            analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                                            (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                                            --

                                            Your Humble Servant
                                            Solveig Throndardottir
                                            Amateur Scholar

                                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                                            | the trash by my email filters. |
                                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                          • Elaine Koogler
                                            I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics,
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                              I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                                              Kiri

                                              Everybody can be great ... because anybody can serve.
                                              You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
                                              You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
                                              You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love.
                                              >
                                              > - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Solveig
                                              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:30 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Last Samurai Movie


                                              Noble Cousin!

                                              Greetings from Solveig!

                                              >It's not just confined to the movies. A couple of years back,
                                              >Emeril did a show on Medieval cooking. To begin with, some of what
                                              >he did was Victorian rather than Medieval. But worst of all, the
                                              >stuff that he did that was period came from Master Cariadoc's web
                                              >site. I believe that Cariadoc has the information copyrighted, but
                                              >that didn't stop Emeril. And...he didn't even have the decency to
                                              >credit David Friedman (Master Cariadoc)! I believe David contacted
                                              >the producers of the show about this, but don't know what the
                                              >outcome was.

                                              By and large, recipes can not be copyrighted. They have special treatment
                                              under U.S. copyright law. Further, information can not be copyrighted. What
                                              is copyrighted is expression in tangible form. However, failure to attest
                                              sources is considered a sin against scholarship.

                                              What can be copyrighted? Potentially the exact wording of the procedure for
                                              the preparing the recipe, but not the list of ingredients. You can copyright
                                              analysis, commentary, and discussions of origin.

                                              (Ref) The Recpie Writer's Handbook and Kirsh's Handbook of Publishing Law.
                                              --

                                              Your Humble Servant
                                              Solveig Throndardottir
                                              Amateur Scholar

                                              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                                              | the trash by my email filters. |
                                              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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                                            • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                              Konnichi wa, As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on copyright... ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                                Konnichi wa,
                                                As a functional photographer, fine and graphic artist, I am big on
                                                copyright...
                                                ( http://www.copyright.gov ) and I enjoy doing artwork that people can
                                                see. What else is the point, if people don't see it...but I realy do
                                                believe ethically that people should credit their sources.
                                                For the production crew to say "their" prop department did the
                                                work...that is problematical - By contract, Jaap technically did work
                                                for them...but the facts were distorted when they reported their
                                                numbers...and it made it seem that it was an in-house crew that did
                                                the work, rather than hired-out professional labour.
                                                Plus, movie props are not made just like the real things - resin
                                                quivers are not like real ones...
                                                Is Jaap's work copyrightable? Why, to a degree, yes...
                                                He makes production yumi for the world. A bow, by and large, is
                                                already common domain, but his technique is protected, and the actual
                                                work he did should be credited to him. Jaap obviously did not invent
                                                the yumi...but he learned from a very good historical liniage, and his
                                                particular personal additions to the process are his alone...no one
                                                can take credit for them.
                                                But he did contract the bows he made to be used for the movie crew as
                                                they say fit.

                                                Will I still go see the movie...of course. Yumi is a big boy...I just
                                                wish that the movie folk chose to give him some sort of credit. All I
                                                can do as a friend and an ethical artist is to let people know who did
                                                the real work. Jaap would do the same for me. We have known each other
                                                long enough to feel comfortable in that...
                                                Enough ranting...

                                                Date Saburou Yukiie
                                                Yama Kaminari Ryu
                                                shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
                                                http://www.kabutographics.com
                                                kabuto@...


                                                >but the point was that Emeril used work done by another without
                                                bothering to credit him for the usage.
                                              • Solveig
                                                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I wrote that it is a sin against scholarship . That is, they did a sholarly NO-NO. They should be scolded and
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Dec 3, 2003
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                                                  Noble Cousin!

                                                  Greetings from Solveig!

                                                  >I understand...but the point was that Emeril used work done by
                                                  >another without bothering to credit him for the usage. It is
                                                  >actually more a matter of ethics, in all probability, than
                                                  >law...though I suspect that, David Friedman being experienced in
                                                  >law, if there was anything that could be done, he did it!

                                                  I wrote that it is "a sin against scholarship". That is, they did a sholarly
                                                  NO-NO. They should be scolded and possibly discredited. However, they probably
                                                  did not violate copyright.

                                                  As for Yaap. He created what is known as a "work made for hire" and the
                                                  copyright belongs to the movie studio that hired him. Do I think that the
                                                  movie studio acted like scoundrels. Absolutely. After sitting through minuttes
                                                  of credits for a movie which include the names of each of the tutors for
                                                  child actors, the name of the catering service, the name of the legal services,
                                                  the names of historical consultants and dialect coaches, I do think that they
                                                  could have included Yaap among a list of "armourers" in the credits.
                                                  --

                                                  Your Humble Servant
                                                  Solveig Throndardottir
                                                  Amateur Scholar

                                                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                                                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                                                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                                • klaus1526
                                                  ... matter... ... thought, but ... Sphere did. ... Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in soul . I was never engaged in the movie and really didn t care
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Dec 4, 2003
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                                                    > I don't know if this fits at all, but given the change in subject
                                                    matter...
                                                    > I found Timeline to be quite disappointing. Dunno what all you
                                                    thought, but
                                                    > it just didn't have a "Crichton" feel like Jurassic Park and
                                                    Sphere did.
                                                    > Ok, I'll stop now...
                                                    >
                                                    > Kagesue


                                                    Yeah, I thought Timeline was lacking in "soul". I was never engaged
                                                    in the movie and really didn't care about the characters. I did read
                                                    the book, and it was, as usual, far better than the movie.
                                                    It seems the Timeline was made for the 12-13yr olds and didn't have
                                                    good acting or dialogue. It was a disappointment.

                                                    KlausH
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