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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Looking for patterns for Edo period Kamishimo

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  • Bubba
    ... I m planting a 75 foot row of bamboo in the spring. I ll be set for pins for the rest of eternity ;) Speaking of that, does anyone know anything about
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 30, 2003
      Ii Saburou wrote:
      > Oh, and a cheap source for bamboo slats--broken shinai. In fact,
      > they can be used for many things (including mekugi pins).

      I'm planting a 75 foot row of bamboo in the spring. I'll be set for pins for
      the rest of eternity ;)

      Speaking of that, does anyone know anything about growing bamboo?
      Specifically, how do you keep it from growing everywhere? I'd like to keep
      it contained a bit. Dig ditch, line sides with stiff plastic, fill with
      mulch, plant bamboo, maybe?
      --
      Kagemasa
      mysticz28@...
      He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
    • Ii Saburou
      Okay, I would check everywhere I could to find what more professional growers have to say, but these are the tips I ve heard: First, realize that it will get
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 30, 2003
        Okay, I would check everywhere I could to find what more professional
        growers have to say, but these are the tips I've heard:

        First, realize that it will get through any small crack, so you have to
        really be careful. Any material you use to surround it should be as
        complete a piece as possible.

        Next, dig around the area you want to plant the bamboo. I've heard that
        the depth needs to be between 3' and 6'--I think 6' is extreme. It has to
        be deep enough that the bamboo will not grow under it.

        Insert the wall into the ditch and fill it in. I believe that it needs to
        be a plastic canvas--something that won't deteriorate in the soil. They
        should sell it at your local garden store.

        Then, make sure to keep an eye out for any shoots that get loose.

        That said, I had always figured that the best way might be to make a small
        island in the middle of a large pond and just let it go, but I don't know
        how far the shoots can go underground or if they would come up in the
        water (or at least how deep the water would need to be).


        Just some thoughts, not sure if they are coherent. I've not yet had
        enough land to actually try it.

        Speaking of which, Aine and I just purchased a new home. Still not tht
        big, but it is ours. We'll have to invite some of our friends over to
        help us give it a proper housewarming ceremony (not sure what that would
        be but I'm sure it will involve sake and umeshu in great quantities).

        -Ii


        On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Bubba wrote:

        > Ii Saburou wrote:
        > > Oh, and a cheap source for bamboo slats--broken shinai. In fact,
        > > they can be used for many things (including mekugi pins).
        >
        > I'm planting a 75 foot row of bamboo in the spring. I'll be set for pins for
        > the rest of eternity ;)
        >
        > Speaking of that, does anyone know anything about growing bamboo?
        > Specifically, how do you keep it from growing everywhere? I'd like to keep
        > it contained a bit. Dig ditch, line sides with stiff plastic, fill with
        > mulch, plant bamboo, maybe?
        > --
        > Kagemasa
        > mysticz28@...
        > He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
        >
        >
        >
        > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Bubba
        ... No, this is some kind of leather thing that somehow holds both saya and the obi. I haven t seen a single picture so I have no idea how it s arranged. I ll
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 30, 2003
          Ii Saburou wrote:
          >
          > Eh, it does help, but if you tighten it up enough the karate obi
          > seems to work, although it feels bulky, to me. The sword holder--are
          > you thinking
          > of the little hook on some scabbards to help hold the obi--I'm
          > blanking on the name all of a sudden. I've seen it on Edo period
          > scabbards and I _think_ I've seen it on earlier scabards, but I can't
          > remember right away. Personally, I feel it gets in the way of good
          > saya-biki and other
          > movements more than helps, but that may just be me.

          No, this is some kind of leather thing that somehow holds both saya and the
          obi. I haven't seen a single picture so I have no idea how it's arranged.
          I'll probably wind up making something with a couple of laced sleeves, one
          for each saya, and another sageo to lash it in. My wakizashi should be here
          tomorrow and I'm going to wear my garb and both swords while scaring the
          daylights out of children begging for candy :)

          > ??? No.... Now I am afraid....

          Most Extreme Elimination is made up of clips from a Japanese gameshow (of
          sorts) called Takeshi's Castle. So funny that I've fallen out of my chair
          watching it.

          > -Ii, who thought that "Kill Bill: Volume I" honored its chambara roots
          > extremely well--including Sonny Chiba!

          I might have to go see that tomorrow. Haven't had a chance yet.
          --
          Kagemasa
          mysticz28@...
          He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
        • Bubba
          ... If I understand right the stuff grows even more aggressively than grass, but does it underground so you have no idea it s doing it until you suddenly have
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 31, 2003
            Ii Saburou wrote:
            >
            > First, realize that it will get through any small crack, so you have
            > to really be careful. Any material you use to surround it should be
            > as
            > complete a piece as possible.

            If I understand right the stuff grows even more aggressively than grass, but
            does it underground so you have no idea it's doing it until you suddenly
            have a yard full of bamboo, wall to wall.

            > Next, dig around the area you want to plant the bamboo. I've heard
            > that
            > the depth needs to be between 3' and 6'--I think 6' is extreme. It
            > has to
            > be deep enough that the bamboo will not grow under it.
            >
            > Insert the wall into the ditch and fill it in. I believe that it
            > needs to
            > be a plastic canvas--something that won't deteriorate in the soil.
            > They should sell it at your local garden store.

            Hmm... I wonder if a 2' x 2' trench (remember, it's about 75 feet long and
            has to be dug by ME! ;) lined with 2 layers of the plastic stuff and a leach
            hose laying in the bottom would work.

            > Then, make sure to keep an eye out for any shoots that get loose.

            The plan for those is to let them sprout, cut the shoot a foot or two from
            the big plant, and replant the new one in a more suitable spot. Something
            like herding foliage ;)

            > That said, I had always figured that the best way might be to make a
            > small island in the middle of a large pond and just let it go, but I
            > don't know
            > how far the shoots can go underground or if they would come up in the
            > water (or at least how deep the water would need to be).

            They would come up in the water, depending on the type of bamboo. Been
            there, seen that. There will be 3 ponds back there. 2 made of those plastic
            kiddie pools full of fish, another made of an 8' dia. round water trough
            from Tractor Supply that has a filter, chlorinator, pump, etc. hooked up.
            That'll be for people :) Since there will likely be fighter practice in the
            front yard occasionally I fully expect that pond to be full of sweaty
            samurai. First one to... err... mark his territory will have the offensive
            appendage removed with a suitably sized weapon ;)

            > Just some thoughts, not sure if they are coherent. I've not yet had
            > enough land to actually try it.

            We live in a technically rural area. No curbs or gutters, just ditches, but
            less than 5 miles from the fastest growing part of Houston. It took me 3
            years to get the grass to grow and fill in the dead areas caused by pine
            trees (shade = bad for delicate grass). Fortunately the back yard, where the
            bamboo and garden are going, is bordered on one side by a dry creek bed.
            Water isn't an issue back there. Grass (wild variants that is) grows so fast
            back there that I can't keep it cut, so I'm not going to. I'll just kill it
            all and start from scratch. There will have to be a fake rock with a network
            jack and electrical outlet, though. Gotta be able to sit out there with a
            laptop and annoy everyone around here while drinking half of what was
            bottled the week before ;)

            > Speaking of which, Aine and I just purchased a new home. Still not
            > tht
            > big, but it is ours. We'll have to invite some of our friends over to
            > help us give it a proper housewarming ceremony (not sure what that
            > would
            > be but I'm sure it will involve sake and umeshu in great quantities).

            Were you closer I'd give you a bottle of something that would knock at least
            3 full grown men smooth out. Let's put it this way, the lemonaid I said was
            about 7% is more like 11% and we consider that a dinner wine. Kagemasa's
            Revenge measured 17% (more like 20% in real life) a couple of hours ago and
            is still fermenting. A couple of magnums of that will induce a forced
            horizon adjustment of 90° (as in, you'll fall over into a pool of your own
            sick).
            --
            Kagemasa
            mysticz28@...
            He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
          • Ii Saburou
            ... More troublesome: your _neighbor_ has a yard full of bamboo! Be aware that as soon as they see bamboo nearby some neighbors may freak out. Heck, my
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 31, 2003
              On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Bubba wrote:

              > If I understand right the stuff grows even more aggressively than grass, but
              > does it underground so you have no idea it's doing it until you suddenly
              > have a yard full of bamboo, wall to wall.

              More troublesome: your _neighbor_ has a yard full of bamboo!

              Be aware that as soon as they see bamboo nearby some neighbors may freak
              out. Heck, my parents once bought a house and got in trouble for bamboo
              that had spread from another yard to theirs to the yard behind them--that
              was going under the 6' high (and how deep?) brick walls between the
              houses.

              > Hmm... I wonder if a 2' x 2' trench (remember, it's about 75 feet long and
              > has to be dug by ME! ;) lined with 2 layers of the plastic stuff and a leach
              > hose laying in the bottom would work.

              As I said: I recommend finding people who actually grow the stuff and see
              what they have to say.

              > The plan for those is to let them sprout, cut the shoot a foot or two from
              > the big plant, and replant the new one in a more suitable spot. Something
              > like herding foliage ;)

              I would worry that you would still leave enough to keep growing, unless
              you are talking about digging down into the ground to cut it.

              > Were you closer I'd give you a bottle of something that would knock at least
              > 3 full grown men smooth out. Let's put it this way, the lemonaid I said was
              > about 7% is more like 11% and we consider that a dinner wine. Kagemasa's
              > Revenge measured 17% (more like 20% in real life) a couple of hours ago and
              > is still fermenting. A couple of magnums of that will induce a forced
              > horizon adjustment of 90° (as in, you'll fall over into a pool of your own
              > sick).

              That's alright. I'm not sure it needs that kind of... christening ;)

              -Ii
            • BamboOni@aol.com
              In a message dated 10/30/2003 9:44:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, logan@modzer0.cs.uaf.edu writes: Speaking of which, Aine and I just purchased a new home.
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 31, 2003
                In a message dated 10/30/2003 9:44:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                logan@... writes:
                Speaking of which, Aine and I just purchased a new home. Still not tht
                big, but it is ours.
                Congratulations on the new home.



                Takebayashi Genpachi


                ' Only the bamboo knows the pure breeze'
                Zen Master Nanrei Kobori-roshi


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... As I recall, bamboo has a sort of three year life cycle. In the begining, the plant draws nourishment from adjoining
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 31, 2003
                  Noble Cousins!

                  Greetings from Solveig!

                  >If I understand right the stuff grows even more aggressively than grass, but
                  >does it underground so you have no idea it's doing it until you suddenly
                  >have a yard full of bamboo, wall to wall.

                  As I recall, bamboo has a sort of three year life cycle. In the begining, the
                  plant draws nourishment from adjoining plants. Thus, it takes a while to
                  establish a takeyabu and a while to get rid of one.

                  >We live in a technically rural area. No curbs or gutters, just ditches, but
                  >less than 5 miles from the fastest growing part of Houston. It took me 3
                  >years to get the grass to grow and fill in the dead areas caused by pine
                  >trees (shade = bad for delicate grass).

                  Try moss! It covers the ground, looks spiffy, and doesn't need mowing. It is
                  also much more Japanese than grass.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                • michael A
                  Ive seen what your refering to but cant recall in which books. Trying to recall from memory here,,, Both saya were attached to the leather piece which layed
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 31, 2003
                    Ive seen what your refering to but cant recall in
                    which books. Trying to recall from memory here,,,
                    Both saya were attached to the leather piece which
                    layed flat against the body, it was an irregular
                    shaped piece . I cant recall how the holder was
                    attached to the person/ clothing, but i believe the
                    saya of each sword was held in position by a cord that
                    went throush the leather in 4 places and made an X
                    over the saya.
                    Im sure thats a horrible decription
                    ummmmm... my shires event is this weekend so if somone
                    cant find you a pic before next weekend remind me and
                    i hunt it down once life quiets down again.
                    --Kiyohara


                    --- Bubba <mysticz28@...> wrote:
                    > Ii Saburou wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Eh, it does help, but if you tighten it up enough
                    > the karate obi
                    > > seems to work, although it feels bulky, to me.
                    > The sword holder--are
                    > > you thinking
                    > > of the little hook on some scabbards to help hold
                    > the obi--I'm
                    > > blanking on the name all of a sudden. I've seen
                    > it on Edo period
                    > > scabbards and I _think_ I've seen it on earlier
                    > scabards, but I can't
                    > > remember right away. Personally, I feel it gets in
                    > the way of good
                    > > saya-biki and other
                    > > movements more than helps, but that may just be
                    > me.
                    >
                    > No, this is some kind of leather thing that somehow
                    > holds both saya and the
                    > obi. I haven't seen a single picture so I have no
                    > idea how it's arranged.
                    > I'll probably wind up making something with a couple
                    > of laced sleeves, one
                    > for each saya, and another sageo to lash it in. My
                    > wakizashi should be here
                    > tomorrow and I'm going to wear my garb and both
                    > swords while scaring the
                    > daylights out of children begging for candy :)
                    >
                    > > ??? No.... Now I am afraid....
                    >
                    > Most Extreme Elimination is made up of clips from a
                    > Japanese gameshow (of
                    > sorts) called Takeshi's Castle. So funny that I've
                    > fallen out of my chair
                    > watching it.
                    >
                    > > -Ii, who thought that "Kill Bill: Volume I"
                    > honored its chambara roots
                    > > extremely well--including Sonny Chiba!
                    >
                    > I might have to go see that tomorrow. Haven't had a
                    > chance yet.
                    > --
                    > Kagemasa
                    > mysticz28@...
                    > He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be
                    > let in.
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >
                    > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail
                    > sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >


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                  • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                    Kiyohara-dono, The thing you are referring to is called koshi ate, and is actually described quite well. There is a long himo that wraps around the waist
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 31, 2003
                      Kiyohara-dono,
                      The thing you are referring to is called koshi ate, and is actually
                      described quite well. There is a long himo that wraps around the waist
                      several times, and is firmly attached to the koshi ate. There are
                      single weapon versions, and dual weapon versions. The leather piece is
                      roughly about 8 inches long, and can be freeform shaped, or basically
                      oval. They are sometimes edged, but not lacquered. A good heavy veg
                      tan in, say 8 or 10 oz leather works fine.
                      There are two sets of himo that x over the saya in two places, thus
                      holding the weapon roughly horizontal.
                      I have made these before, and they work quite well - just make sure
                      that you tie the saya in very firmly, and that the waist himo are
                      quite firmly wrapped around the waist, over the outer ties of the hakama.
                      It is a good way to wear a regular katana mount edge down, tachi-like,
                      and is, as I understand it, a late period, but acceptable practice.
                      I hope this helps.

                      Date Saburou Yukiie
                      Yama Kaminari Ryu
                      Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...unless you climb
                      out of it notight!!!
                      http://www.kabutographics.com (under reconstruction)
                      kabuto@...


                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, michael A <kiyokage@y...> wrote:
                      > Ive seen what your refering to but cant recall in
                      > which books. Trying to recall from memory here,,,
                      > Both saya were attached to the leather piece which
                      > layed flat against the body, it was an irregular
                      > shaped piece . I cant recall how the holder was
                      > attached to the person/ clothing, but i believe the
                      > saya of each sword was held in position by a cord that
                      > went throush the leather in 4 places and made an X
                      > over the saya.
                      > Im sure thats a horrible decription
                      > --Kiyohara
                      >
                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... That would be the koshikake; it s used when *in armour* to protect the saya from rubbing against the armour. It s not a common piece of equipment, anyway;
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 10, 2003
                        Bubba wrote:

                        > Apparently there is a gizmo of some kind that attaches to the obi and holds
                        > both swords, but I haven't found much info on it.

                        That would be the koshikake; it's used when *in armour* to protect the saya from
                        rubbing against the armour. It's not a common piece of equipment, anyway; it was
                        very rarely used.


                        Effingham
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