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RE: [SCA-JML] Cricket House - sorta OT

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  • Solveig
    Keiaiji no Nyudo Nyodai dono! Greetings from Solveig! ... Mokurai bozu happens to be a Buddhist monk of some sort. Consequently, I was suggesting a number of
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 30, 2003
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      Keiaiji no Nyudo Nyodai dono!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      >Can you explain further the practice of "naming a house"?

      Mokurai bozu happens to be a Buddhist monk of some sort. Consequently,
      I was suggesting a number of suffixes used either for monastic buildings
      or used for tea houses. Tea practitioners were a quasi-monastic lot of
      artists. Basicallly, the names in these cases should use on-yomi (Chinese)
      readings and end with one of the basic building words of which I did not
      include a complete list. In place names, you often see <number><object>
      formations so I simply took the onyomi for thousand and chicada. I am
      recommending against cricket because it requires two kanji to write
      cricket and the resulting word is quite long. Also, while crickets have
      high esteem in China, the chicada has high esteem in Japan. Further, both
      are insects known for the noise that they make. The basic structure follows:

      <descriptive><substantive><building type>

      Remember that he is naming a building and not a group of people. Nor is he
      seeking a toponymic used to name a place. Places are named a bit differently.

      As Mokurai bozu pointed out, Fujiwara does indeed mean <wysteria><field>.
      There are variants on the origin of the name. The one which recalls itself
      to mind is that shortly after the successful coup d'etat by a member of the
      imperial family and a member of the Nakatomi uji, the new emperor created
      a new uji (clan) for his collaborator. Regardless, they were supposeably
      sitting together and happened to look out upon a field of wysteria in bloom
      and the emperor commemorated the occasion by creating the Fujiwara uji.

      Note. The imperial family long long ago secured the right to create new uji
      and did so very rarely. While people were freely creating family names
      during the Kamakura and Muromachi periods, the uji remained relatively
      static. Consequently, I generally recommend that people pick uji from
      lists of extant uji. Uji were very large and there is no possibility of
      pretense in picking an extant uji. Rather, the opposite is true.
      Creating an uji is in my opinion pretentious.

      Family names and rural house names may be largely coincident. This is because
      the medieval Japanese concept of the family is based upon cohabitation and not
      on blood line. This is further complicated by the myouden or named fields.

      I all fairness to Lord Alban St. Albans, I should recommend a modest work on
      pre-modern Japanese names entitled Name Construction in Medieval Japan and
      available by writing to: mailto:Alban@...
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
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    • Solveig
      Date dono! Greetings from Solveig! ... Here is my read on it. ko orogi is problematic. Incidentaly, semi (chicada) is also translated as locust. -in more or
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 30, 2003
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        Date dono!

        Greetings from Solveig!
        >how about calling the place cricket hall...ko'orogi-in...
        >
        >this would be along similar lines to the byôdo-in...
        >
        >Just thoughts...

        Here is my read on it. ko'orogi is problematic.

        Incidentaly, semi (chicada) is also translated as locust.

        -in more or less means palace which just doesn't seem to match
        the aspect of Mokurai bozu all that well.
        --

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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      • Ii Saburou
        ... What about suzu-mushi ? I ve seen it translated as bell cricket and, even though it is a specific type, it might work here. I also missed, earlier,
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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          On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Solveig wrote:

          > Greetings from Solveig!
          > >how about calling the place cricket hall...ko'orogi-in...
          > >
          > >this would be along similar lines to the byôdo-in...
          > >
          > >Just thoughts...
          >
          > Here is my read on it. ko'orogi is problematic.
          >
          > Incidentaly, semi (chicada) is also translated as locust.
          >
          > -in more or less means palace which just doesn't seem to match
          > the aspect of Mokurai bozu all that well.
          > --

          What about 'suzu-mushi'? I've seen it translated as 'bell cricket' and,
          even though it is a specific type, it might work here. I also missed,
          earlier, whether you had considered '-den'. I'm not sure if it can be
          used in a name, however, although I thought I remembered it being used for
          such. Would 'Suzu-den' (Bell Mansion) be doable?


          -Ii
        • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
          Solveig, my Clan Sister, ... I figure as Mokurai bozu practices non-attachment in this world of mappo, the distinction between one insect or another looses
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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            Solveig, my Clan Sister,

            > Here is my read on it. ko'orogi is problematic.
            >
            > Incidentaly, semi (chicada) is also translated as locust.
            >
            > -in more or less means palace which just doesn't seem to match
            > the aspect of Mokurai bozu all that well.
            > --
            >

            I figure as Mokurai bozu practices non-attachment in this world of
            mappo, the distinction between one insect or another looses some of
            its former importance...All life, even insect life, has its place in
            the universe...

            Date Saburou Yukiie
          • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
            ... ...and insect palace seems to be quite the pun to bring a smile to the lips... Date Saburou Yukiie
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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              > Solveig, my Clan Sister,

              > >
              > > -in more or less means palace which just doesn't seem to match
              > > the aspect of Mokurai bozu all that well.

              >

              ...and "insect palace" seems to be quite the pun to bring a smile to
              the lips...


              Date Saburou Yukiie
            • Eric Munson
              ... Really? Tell me the next time you are stung by a firefly! The mountain is green and the flowers are red. ^_^ ... Indeed. I suppose I should note that
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie [mailto:kabuto@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Cricket House - sorta OT
                >
                >
                > Solveig, my Clan Sister,
                >
                > > Here is my read on it. ko'orogi is problematic.
                > >
                > > Incidentally, semi (cicada) is also translated as locust.
                > >
                > > -in more or less means palace which just doesn't seem to match the
                > > aspect of Mokurai bozu all that well.
                > > --
                > >
                >
                > I figure as Mokurai bozu practices non-attachment in this
                > world of mappo, the distinction between one insect or another
                > looses some of its former importance...

                Really? Tell me the next time you are stung by a firefly! The mountain
                is green and the flowers are red. ^_^


                > All life, even insect
                > life, has its place in the universe...

                Indeed.

                I suppose I should note that Mokurai does come from a samurai family and
                is thus not entirely detached from worldly matters (including politics).
                Thus, some things in his world predate his entering of the way or are
                things that were once possessions of, or associated with, the Matsuyama
                clan. In that sense, the '-in' would be ok. Though Solveig is right in
                that it doesn't quite match Mokurai's "aspect". On the other hand, Eric
                Munson is quite fond of his Victorian house and his materialistic
                collection of antiques. ^_^

                - mokueric, wannabe Victorian tea master
              • Eric Munson
                ... I follow the Yaen school and am a devotee of the rotten peach sutra. ... Indeed. And I appreciate that very much, thanks. Right now I am leaning towards
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Solveig [mailto:nostrand@...]
                  > Mokurai bozu happens to be a Buddhist monk of some sort.

                  I follow the Yaen school and am a devotee of the rotten peach sutra.



                  > Consequently, I was suggesting a number of suffixes used
                  > either for monastic buildings or used for tea houses. Tea
                  > practitioners were a quasi-monastic lot of artists.

                  Indeed. And I appreciate that very much, thanks. Right now I am leaning
                  towards Effingham's suggestion - "Shissutsu-in", it seems to fit most
                  of the criteria being brought up. Sounds pretty good to my poor ears.



                  > Family names and rural house names may be largely coincident.
                  > This is because the medieval Japanese concept of the family
                  > is based upon cohabitation and not on blood line. This is
                  > further complicated by the myouden or named fields.

                  Kinda like hippies or SCAdians. Seriously, this is all interesting
                  stuff. Thank you.

                  - mokurai
                • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                  ... even the crickets chirping for their enemies malicious fireflies ... Date
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                    >
                    > Really? Tell me the next time you are stung by a firefly! The mountain
                    > is green and the flowers are red. ^_^

                    :)

                    even the crickets
                    chirping for their enemies
                    malicious fireflies



                    ...damned malicious fireflies
                    :)

                    Date
                  • Choronzey, Marc
                    ... A moment interupted Ouch! Flickering pain... ... Not obvious to write Improv Haiku when works keep interupting. lol -Marc Choronzey Support SAC, BMC
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                      ----> Cricket unheeded
                      A moment interupted
                      Ouch! Flickering pain...
                      ---->

                      Not obvious to write "Improv Haiku" when works keep interupting. lol

                      -Marc Choronzey
                      Support SAC, BMC Montreal
                      work : 514.420.7888 poste 3221
                      Page : 514.414.0907
                      Cell : 514.917.4764

                      > -----Message d'origine-----
                      > De: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                      > Date: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:46 AM
                      > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      > Objet: [SCA-JML] Re: Cricket House - sorta OT
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Really? Tell me the next time you are stung by a firefly! The mountain
                      > > is green and the flowers are red. ^_^
                      >
                      > :)
                      >
                      > even the crickets
                      > chirping for their enemies
                      > malicious fireflies
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ...damned malicious fireflies
                      > :)
                      >
                      > Date
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Eric Munson
                      ... malicious fireflies Glowing inside my lantern Longing to fly free Outside, the summer night sings And ugly crickets are safe - mokurai
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie [mailto:kabuto@...]
                        >
                        > even the crickets
                        > chirping for their enemies
                        > malicious fireflies


                        malicious fireflies
                        Glowing inside my lantern
                        Longing to fly free
                        Outside, the summer night sings
                        And ugly crickets are safe

                        - mokurai
                      • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                        ... fireflies and crickets all gather to hear music enemies no more katana put down gagaku in the grasses stingers laid to rest Date
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                          > malicious fireflies
                          > Glowing inside my lantern
                          > Longing to fly free
                          > Outside, the summer night sings
                          > And ugly crickets are safe
                          >
                          > - mokurai



                          >
                          >
                          > malicious fireflies
                          > Glowing inside my lantern
                          > Longing to fly free
                          > Outside, the summer night sings
                          > And ugly crickets are safe
                          >

                          fireflies and crickets
                          all gather to hear music
                          enemies no more

                          katana put down
                          gagaku in the grasses
                          stingers laid to rest


                          Date
                        • makiwara_no_yetsuko
                          ... leaning ... most ... Does any of this have to do with going bughouse? ;- Makiwara, whose Western alter-ego is chatelaine of Chateau des Singes (The Monkey
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Munson" <eric@m...> wrote:
                            > Indeed. And I appreciate that very much, thanks. Right now I am
                            leaning
                            > towards Effingham's suggestion - "Shissutsu-in", it seems to fit
                            most
                            > of the criteria being brought up.

                            Does any of this have to do with going bughouse? ;->

                            Makiwara, whose Western alter-ego is chatelaine of Chateau des Singes
                            (The Monkey House)
                          • Eric Munson
                            ... Well done! Stingers laid to rest The meadow lies in repose Peaceful after the concert Tiny Shirabyoshi End the dance as Dawn unfolds - mokurai
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie [mailto:kabuto@...]
                              >
                              > fireflies and crickets
                              > all gather to hear music
                              > enemies no more
                              >
                              > katana put down
                              > gagaku in the grasses
                              > stingers laid to rest
                              >
                              >
                              > Date

                              Well done!


                              Stingers laid to rest
                              The meadow lies in repose
                              Peaceful after the concert
                              Tiny Shirabyoshi
                              End the dance as Dawn unfolds

                              - mokurai
                            • Choronzey, Marc
                              woo-hoo! err.... yosh. hehehe, although, I think they should either be all japanese or all english, I believe it becomes too easy to mix-n-match. Still,
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                woo-hoo! err.... yosh.

                                hehehe, although, I think they should either be all japanese or all
                                english, I believe it becomes too easy to mix-n-match. Still, all-in-all,
                                they are very nice indeed. :)

                                Poetry challenge
                                monk and warrior confront
                                Afternoon's delight.

                                (hehehe)

                                -Marc Choronzey
                                Support SAC, BMC Montreal
                                Page : 514.414.0907
                                Cell : 514.917.4764

                                > -----Message d'origine-----
                                > De: Eric Munson
                                > Date: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:30 PM
                                > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                > Objet: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Cricket House - sorta OT
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie [mailto:kabuto@...]
                                > >
                                > > fireflies and crickets
                                > > all gather to hear music
                                > > enemies no more
                                > >
                                > > katana put down
                                > > gagaku in the grasses
                                > > stingers laid to rest
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Date
                                >
                                > Well done!
                                >
                                >
                                > Stingers laid to rest
                                > The meadow lies in repose
                                > Peaceful after the concert
                                > Tiny Shirabyoshi
                                > End the dance as Dawn unfolds
                                >
                                > - mokurai
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                              • Anthony J. Bryant
                                ... You know, if you did go with cicadas you could say in all honesty and with a straight face that you live in a semi -detached house. Effingham
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                  Eric Munson wrote:

                                  > I suppose I should note that Mokurai does come from a samurai family and
                                  > is thus not entirely detached from worldly matters

                                  You know, if you did go with cicadas you could say in all honesty and with a
                                  straight face that you live in a "semi"-detached house. <G>


                                  Effingham
                                • Eric Munson
                                  ACK! ... http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/PJ_qlB/TM ... UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                    ACK!

                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Anthony J. Bryant [mailto:ajbryant@...]
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:59 PM
                                    > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Cricket House - sorta OT
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Eric Munson wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I suppose I should note that Mokurai does come from a
                                    > samurai family
                                    > > and is thus not entirely detached from worldly matters
                                    >
                                    > You know, if you did go with cicadas you could say in all
                                    > honesty and with a
                                    > straight face that you live in a "semi"-detached house. <G>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Effingham
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • Eric Munson
                                    Well, I suppose we are playing fast and loose with the rules, but a good round of Renga now and then is good for the soul. - mokurai ...
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                      Well, I suppose we are playing fast and loose with the rules, but a good
                                      round of Renga now and then is good for the soul.

                                      - mokurai

                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Choronzey, Marc [mailto:mchoronz@...]
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:31 PM
                                      > To: 'sca-jml@yahoogroups.com'
                                      > Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Cricket House - sorta OT
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > woo-hoo! err.... yosh.
                                      >
                                      > hehehe, although, I think they should either be all japanese
                                      > or all english, I believe it becomes too easy to mix-n-match.
                                      > Still, all-in-all, they are very nice indeed. :)
                                      >
                                      > Poetry challenge
                                      > monk and warrior confront
                                      > Afternoon's delight.
                                      >
                                      > (hehehe)
                                      >
                                      > -Marc Choronzey
                                      > Support SAC, BMC Montreal
                                      > Page : 514.414.0907
                                      > Cell : 514.917.4764
                                      >
                                      > > -----Message d'origine-----
                                      > > De: Eric Munson
                                      > > Date: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:30 PM
                                      > > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Objet: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Cricket House - sorta OT
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > From: Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                      > [mailto:kabuto@...]
                                      > > >
                                      > > > fireflies and crickets
                                      > > >
                                      > all gather to hear music
                                      > > > enemies no more
                                      > > >
                                      > > > katana put down
                                      > > > gagaku in the grasses
                                      > > > stingers laid to rest
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Date
                                      > >
                                      > > Well done!
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Stingers laid to rest
                                      > > The meadow lies in repose
                                      > > Peaceful after the concert
                                      > > Tiny Shirabyoshi
                                      > > End the dance as Dawn unfolds
                                      > >
                                      > > - mokurai
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >
                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      > >
                                      >
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                                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                                      ... Afternoon s delight? Hmmm. Afternoon delight. Dressed up like a deuce, you know. Runner in the night. Effingham
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                        Choronzey, Marc wrote:

                                        > woo-hoo! err.... yosh.
                                        >
                                        > hehehe, although, I think they should either be all japanese or all
                                        > english, I believe it becomes too easy to mix-n-match. Still, all-in-all,
                                        > they are very nice indeed. :)
                                        >
                                        > Poetry challenge
                                        > monk and warrior confront
                                        > Afternoon's delight.

                                        Afternoon's delight?

                                        Hmmm.

                                        Afternoon delight.
                                        Dressed up like a deuce, you know.
                                        Runner in the night.

                                        Effingham
                                      • Choronzey, Marc
                                        LOL LOL LOL I surrender! I cant afford to split a gut at the office.... I have to pay for the ambulance ride... (hehehe) -Marc Choronzey Support SAC, BMC
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                          LOL LOL LOL I surrender! I cant afford to split a gut at the office.... I
                                          have to pay for the ambulance ride... (hehehe)

                                          -Marc Choronzey
                                          Support SAC, BMC Montreal
                                          Page : 514.414.0907
                                          Cell : 514.917.4764

                                          > -----Message d'origine-----
                                          > De: Anthony J. Bryant
                                          > Date: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:14 PM
                                          > À: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Objet: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Cricket House - sorta OT
                                          >
                                          > Choronzey, Marc wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > woo-hoo! err.... yosh.
                                          > >
                                          > > hehehe, although, I think they should either be all japanese or all
                                          > > english, I believe it becomes too easy to mix-n-match. Still,
                                          > all-in-all,
                                          > > they are very nice indeed. :)
                                          > >
                                          > > Poetry challenge
                                          > > monk and warrior confront
                                          > > Afternoon's delight.
                                          >
                                          > Afternoon's delight?
                                          >
                                          > Hmmm.
                                          >
                                          > Afternoon delight.
                                          > Dressed up like a deuce, you know.
                                          > Runner in the night.
                                          >
                                          > Effingham
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
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                                          >
                                        • Solveig
                                          Ii dono! Greetings from Solveig! ... I am pretty sure that suzu-mushi is one of those poetic references rather than an actual primary word. There are other
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                            Ii dono!

                                            Greetings from Solveig!

                                            >What about 'suzu-mushi'? I've seen it translated as 'bell cricket' and,
                                            >even though it is a specific type, it might work here. I also missed,
                                            >earlier, whether you had considered '-den'. I'm not sure if it can be
                                            >used in a name, however, although I thought I remembered it being used for
                                            >such. Would 'Suzu-den' (Bell Mansion) be doable?

                                            I am pretty sure that suzu-mushi is one of those poetic references rather
                                            than an actual primary word. There are other examples. In modern Japan,
                                            gokiburi are also known as abura-mushi. You are correct that -den is another
                                            building forming word, I was trying to go for things which would be a bit
                                            personal appropraite for Mokurai-bozu and still create the image of a larger
                                            rather than a smaller structure.
                                            --

                                            Your Humble Servant
                                            Solveig Throndardottir
                                            Amateur Scholar

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                                            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                                            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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