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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: A question (How to read blue)

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  • Barbara Nostrand
    Noble Cousins! ... What the is most likely about is the common Japanese practice of actually reading the stuff as if it were modern Japanese. Your
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 12 9:28 PM
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      Noble Cousins!

      >But it *is* pronounced "Aoi." <G>

      What the <grin> is most likely about is the common Japanese
      practice of actually reading the stuff as if it were modern
      Japanese.

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

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    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... True; but until we have any evidence to the contrary, that s how it works. The orthography is just odd. Like cough is koff but hiccough is hikkup .
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 12 9:40 PM
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        Barbara Nostrand wrote:

        > Noble Cousins!
        >
        > >But it *is* pronounced "Aoi." <G>
        >
        > What the <grin> is most likely about is the common Japanese
        > practice of actually reading the stuff as if it were modern
        > Japanese.

        True; but until we have any evidence to the contrary, that's how it works.
        The orthography is just odd. Like cough is "koff" but hiccough is "hikkup".
        Spelling isn't always a sign of pronunciation, even in a syllabary.

        For example, the onbin that produces "-a u" as the end of an adjective
        looks like it should be two sounds ("mora" or syllables), but in fact is
        read as a single mora, "-o", as evidenced from poetry where it fills a line
        count to seven (or five) syllables rather than eight or six.

        Most scholars -- other than those who actually focus on vowel and consonant
        shifts and who try to recreate pre-modern Japanese sound -- read them in a
        more "modern" way. KEFU is not "ke-fu", it's "kyou", and "SHIU" isn't
        "shi-u" but "shu". The common verb ending "fu" is just "u", so the verb
        isn't "omofu, but "omou."

        As to what they *really* said... we just don't know.

        There is occasional speculation. For example, the word "aware" (written in
        old orthography as "a-ha-re"), which is *really* hard to translate, but
        means something like "pity/pathos/sentiment/feeling/???" is believed to
        have originally -- WAY back -- been onomatopoeia, and something akin to a
        sigh, in which case -- at least to a Western/English speaker, "aha..."
        sounds more likely as a pronunciation. But then again, one can *also* sigh
        with a sound more like "aw..." so, again... who knows?

        Effingham
      • Aoi
        ... (written in ... but ... believed to ... akin to a ... speaker, aha... ... *also* sigh ... Dear, dear Effy... You re thinking too hard. =) Aoi
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 17 7:32 AM
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          > As to what they *really* said... we just don't know.
          >
          > There is occasional speculation. For example, the word "aware"
          (written in
          > old orthography as "a-ha-re"), which is *really* hard to translate,
          but
          > means something like "pity/pathos/sentiment/feeling/???" is
          believed to
          > have originally -- WAY back -- been onomatopoeia, and something
          akin to a
          > sigh, in which case -- at least to a Western/English
          speaker, "aha..."
          > sounds more likely as a pronunciation. But then again, one can
          *also* sigh
          > with a sound more like "aw..." so, again... who knows?
          >
          > Effingham

          Dear, dear Effy... You're thinking too hard. =)

          Aoi
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... Wouldn t be the first time, my love. I ve occasionally overthought an issue and totally missed the point of the big picture. sigh
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 17 2:01 PM
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            Aoi wrote:

            >
            > Dear, dear Effy... You're thinking too hard. =)

            Wouldn't be the first time, my love. I've occasionally overthought an issue
            and totally missed the point of the big picture. >sigh<.

            Edweird
          • Kass McGann
            ... Wouldn t be the first time, my love. I ve occasionally overthought an issue and totally missed the point of the big picture. sigh
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 17 5:24 PM
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              Aoi wrote:

              >
              > Dear, dear Effy...  You're thinking too hard.  =)

              Wouldn't be the first time, my love. I've occasionally overthought an issue
              and totally missed the point of the big picture. >sigh<.
              >>>>
              As long as you learned from it, love...
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... Well, that is still left to be seen. Edward
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 17 6:48 PM
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                Kass McGann wrote:

                >
                > > Wouldn't be the first time, my love. I've
                > >occasionally overthought an issue and totally
                > >sigh<.>missed the point of the big picture.
                >
                > >>>As long as you learned from it, love...
                >

                Well, that is still left to be seen. <G>

                Edward
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