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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: A question (How to read blue)

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... But it *is* pronounced Aoi. ... Sadaijin, Minister of the Left. She s also To-no-Chujo s sister. Lord, but I m looking forward to Royall finishing
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 12, 2000
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      Barbara Nostrand wrote:

      >
      > You are of course correct about Aoi (the plant) being a jinmei.
      > It is clearly noted as such in my pocket kanwajiten. My Kogojiten
      > notes that written that way, Afuhi

      But it *is* pronounced "Aoi." <G>

      > is a character in Genji
      > Monogatari. She is the daughter of the Dajodaijin (or some
      > such muckity muck), &c.

      Sadaijin, Minister of the Left. She's also To-no-Chujo's sister.

      Lord, but I'm looking forward to Royall finishing his translation of Genji.
      Seidensticker's is so clunky, and Whaley's isn't Murasaki's. The original is
      just such a difficult read.

      >
      > Unfortunately, I am not particularly up on Genji Monogatari.
      > Consequently, I must profusely appologize for writing her
      > name incorrectly on a scroll that I wrote for her.

      That's it. You're fired. <G>

      Effingham
    • Barbara Nostrand
      Noble Cousins! ... What the is most likely about is the common Japanese practice of actually reading the stuff as if it were modern Japanese. Your
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 12, 2000
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        Noble Cousins!

        >But it *is* pronounced "Aoi." <G>

        What the <grin> is most likely about is the common Japanese
        practice of actually reading the stuff as if it were modern
        Japanese.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

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      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... True; but until we have any evidence to the contrary, that s how it works. The orthography is just odd. Like cough is koff but hiccough is hikkup .
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 12, 2000
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          Barbara Nostrand wrote:

          > Noble Cousins!
          >
          > >But it *is* pronounced "Aoi." <G>
          >
          > What the <grin> is most likely about is the common Japanese
          > practice of actually reading the stuff as if it were modern
          > Japanese.

          True; but until we have any evidence to the contrary, that's how it works.
          The orthography is just odd. Like cough is "koff" but hiccough is "hikkup".
          Spelling isn't always a sign of pronunciation, even in a syllabary.

          For example, the onbin that produces "-a u" as the end of an adjective
          looks like it should be two sounds ("mora" or syllables), but in fact is
          read as a single mora, "-o", as evidenced from poetry where it fills a line
          count to seven (or five) syllables rather than eight or six.

          Most scholars -- other than those who actually focus on vowel and consonant
          shifts and who try to recreate pre-modern Japanese sound -- read them in a
          more "modern" way. KEFU is not "ke-fu", it's "kyou", and "SHIU" isn't
          "shi-u" but "shu". The common verb ending "fu" is just "u", so the verb
          isn't "omofu, but "omou."

          As to what they *really* said... we just don't know.

          There is occasional speculation. For example, the word "aware" (written in
          old orthography as "a-ha-re"), which is *really* hard to translate, but
          means something like "pity/pathos/sentiment/feeling/???" is believed to
          have originally -- WAY back -- been onomatopoeia, and something akin to a
          sigh, in which case -- at least to a Western/English speaker, "aha..."
          sounds more likely as a pronunciation. But then again, one can *also* sigh
          with a sound more like "aw..." so, again... who knows?

          Effingham
        • Aoi
          ... (written in ... but ... believed to ... akin to a ... speaker, aha... ... *also* sigh ... Dear, dear Effy... You re thinking too hard. =) Aoi
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 17, 2000
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            > As to what they *really* said... we just don't know.
            >
            > There is occasional speculation. For example, the word "aware"
            (written in
            > old orthography as "a-ha-re"), which is *really* hard to translate,
            but
            > means something like "pity/pathos/sentiment/feeling/???" is
            believed to
            > have originally -- WAY back -- been onomatopoeia, and something
            akin to a
            > sigh, in which case -- at least to a Western/English
            speaker, "aha..."
            > sounds more likely as a pronunciation. But then again, one can
            *also* sigh
            > with a sound more like "aw..." so, again... who knows?
            >
            > Effingham

            Dear, dear Effy... You're thinking too hard. =)

            Aoi
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... Wouldn t be the first time, my love. I ve occasionally overthought an issue and totally missed the point of the big picture. sigh
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 17, 2000
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              Aoi wrote:

              >
              > Dear, dear Effy... You're thinking too hard. =)

              Wouldn't be the first time, my love. I've occasionally overthought an issue
              and totally missed the point of the big picture. >sigh<.

              Edweird
            • Kass McGann
              ... Wouldn t be the first time, my love. I ve occasionally overthought an issue and totally missed the point of the big picture. sigh
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 17, 2000
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                Aoi wrote:

                >
                > Dear, dear Effy...  You're thinking too hard.  =)

                Wouldn't be the first time, my love. I've occasionally overthought an issue
                and totally missed the point of the big picture. >sigh<.
                >>>>
                As long as you learned from it, love...
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... Well, that is still left to be seen. Edward
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 17, 2000
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                  Kass McGann wrote:

                  >
                  > > Wouldn't be the first time, my love. I've
                  > >occasionally overthought an issue and totally
                  > >sigh<.>missed the point of the big picture.
                  >
                  > >>>As long as you learned from it, love...
                  >

                  Well, that is still left to be seen. <G>

                  Edward
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