Re: [SCA-JML] third try at a name
- John wrote:
> Anthony,Well, yeah. There are whole books on the subject. <G>
> Yes, i have read your page, as it was linked from the Clan Genji site,
> and i will say that it was detailed.You describe it as "Very basic?"
> Huh, ok.
>I put that there because I know there are folks who'll wonder. I don't encourage it's usage. While you *could* pass
> As for this:
> > (1) There is no evidence that Japanese ever formed names as "of
> [some given place]." They may be *from* that place,
> > and occasionally thus referenced, but it would not function as a
> *name* in the same sense that "John of Gaunt" or
> > "Edward of Effingham" function as names. Basically, it just wouldn't
> Quoting for your website:
> " Those desiring to simply identify themselves as being of a
> particular place will make use of the "-no" particle. The form, given
> a gentle who, in English, would be named Jir of Mutsu, would be Mutsu
> no Jir"
> that works for my idea because Odawara was both a place AND a clan
> name. So "Odawara no Takahashi" would seem to work by the standards
> your webpage explains, unless i missed something........
such a name under the rules, it wouldn't strike me as a real Japanese name.
>Depends on why you're excited <G>
> as for this:
> > (2) Bynames, when used with given-names, go *before* the given name
> (thus, "Isamashii [given name]." Using proper
> > medieval grammar, however, the appositive of the historical
> adjective "Isamashi" would be "Isamashiki [given name]."
> > Be warned, however, that in old Japanese, "Isamashi" doesn't mean
> "brave": it means "excited."
> this i did not know ( as it seems only a speaker of Japanese would
> know it and the online translator i used must speak "new" Japanese )so
> i can modify accordingly
> Odawara no Isamashiki Takahashi
> excited? i like that better than courageous..LOL
>I've just looked at that site. It... um... yeah. It's very poorly done, frankly. It's just a listing of names, with
> > (3) The big problem is that Takahashi isn't a given name. It's a
> Funny thing, i got it from this website where it is listed as
> Japanese male given name:
> Now, Takahashi is listed as a given name AND as a surname. so............
no indications that there are different *types* of names, and there are some surnames mixed in. With no bibliography
or other text, it's looks like a RPG player's aid, more than anything else.
>You missed the part on the site where it said those are naming elements in *old* (i.e., before 800) names. It's my
> Using the charts on your webpage for first elements and endings of
> men's names
fault, though. I wasn't as clear as I could have been about that. I'll have to fix that. The only people who have
"-ko" as a name element in their names in medieval Japan were women. <G>
>If you want "filial son" as the name, you should use "Takahiko." "-hiko" is a masculine name element
> Odawara no Isamashiki Takako
>See, the problem is that this is moving *farther* away from the way names are constructed, not closer. You could
> Excited Filial son of Odawara
> How's that?
likely get away with the one "weirdness" of being "X of Y" or the one "weirdness" of being "X the Z" but you can't
pull *two* "weirdnesses" of "X the Z of Y."
>Yes, they have puns. I think you can find at least one homonym on every
> From: "Sean Malloy" <srmalloy@...>
>Isn't there a subtype of Japanese humor that exploits the wealth of
>homophones by replacing characters in a word or name so that it
>_sounds_ the same but the changed characters mean something
page of a Japanese dictionary and I've seen at least one TV series that
the protaganist has to rip out several bad explanations based on them.
For example, the word fling and wind chime sound alike, imagine that in
a comedy setting. I've also seen characters substituted for 'cute'
effects in ads. Enough said :) Anthony can tell us about ancient usage,
oops he already did!