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Re: [SCA-JML] Three Generals

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... Are they all on the same side? Something like that is a critical detail. ... Very unlikely. Hideyoshi was a general under Nobunaga, but Takeda Shingen was
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 10, 2000
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      "J. Kriss White" wrote:

      > There's an impressive mural over the sushi bar "Sumo Bistro" in Long Beach,
      > CA, showing a thunderous samurai cavalry charge, with three daimyo out in
      > front leading the charge.

      Are they all on the same side? Something like that is a critical detail.

      > One, I think I recognized as Oda Nobunaga. I
      > think the other two are Hideyoshi and Takeda Shingen, and that this is a
      > romanticized (I doubt the generals were charging at the head of their
      > troops in the mid-1500s) depiction of the battle that put Hideyoshi in
      > power, but all of my Japanese references are still packed in a box
      > somewhere for the last couple of years.

      Very unlikely. Hideyoshi was a general under Nobunaga, but Takeda Shingen was
      a deadly enemy of the Oda. And the battle that (nominally) put Hideyoshi in
      power happened because Nobunaga had been assassinated.

      > Would somebody please post a few
      > things about that battle? Am I confusing them with other daimyo?

      It sounds likely that you're not seeing what you think you are. Any chance you
      can get a photo of the mural uploaded?

      > It might
      > be the battle of Sekigahara instead.

      By Sekigahara, Nobunaga had been dead 18 years, Hideyoshi two, and Shingen a
      whopping 27.

      > The one I think is Nobunaga is
      > depicted with a curiously almost-pointed helm, which I believe I've seen
      > him depicted with elsewhere, and has a crescent on the front of the helm
      > with both points downward. The daimyo in the middle has a trident-head on
      > his helm. The third one had something like a clover leaf design on his.
      >

      Doesn't ring any bells for me.

      >
      > Sadly, neither the sushi chefs nor the manager knew the significance of it,
      > and the manager said the owner had told him it was "probably some
      > battle"... The manager was really interested that I thought I knew
      > something about it, and I'm going back there next week, so... :-)

      Can you get a photo?

      Tony
    • Aoi
      ... I ve seen ... the helm ... trident-head on ... on his. Of course this isn t my area, but the clover leaf design ... Could that be a Hollyhock mon? Like
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 10, 2000
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        > > The one I think is Nobunaga is
        > > depicted with a curiously almost-pointed helm, which I believe
        I've seen
        > > him depicted with elsewhere, and has a crescent on the front of
        the helm
        > > with both points downward. The daimyo in the middle has a
        trident-head on
        > > his helm. The third one had something like a clover leaf design
        on his.

        Of course this isn't my area, but the "clover leaf design"... Could
        that be a Hollyhock mon? Like the Ashikaga's. I could see how
        someone would call it "clover leaf".

        Aoi
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