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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Greetings All

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  • Solveig
    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! When you are at an SCA event, you are NOT in Europe. This is true even in Drachenwald, where you are at least mundanely
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 31, 2003
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      Noble Cousins!

      Greetings from Solveig! When you are at an SCA event, you are NOT in
      Europe. This is true even in Drachenwald, where you are at least
      mundanely in Europe. Rather, you are in a place more akin to the
      island in The Tempest. Although they may like to pretend that their
      is nothing anomolous about their presence, the facts are that there
      is no good justification for a sixteenth century Italian dance master
      to be in the same room with someone who went on crusade with Richard I.
      That sort of thing did not and could not happen. Everyone should
      view themselves as simply having arrived by some inexplicable means.

      As for Japanese outside of Japan. Historically, such people fall into
      several categories: slaves transported by the Iberians, monks and
      scholars, soldiers in one or another of the Japanese expeditions
      to Korea or other places, pirates, and others. Ronin are just about
      the last people you would expect to run into outside of Japan.
      Ronin most typically are desperately seeking employment. See the
      movie Harakiri to get a better idea about such people.
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
      | the trash by my email filters. |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
    • John
      Sloveig, You make a fine point, and one that I hadn t considered before. From the opinions i have heard here, and my own thoughts, I think I will go the route
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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        Sloveig,
        You make a fine point, and one that I hadn't considered before.

        From the opinions i have heard here, and my own thoughts, I think I
        will go the route of a samurai sent into the world to learn the ways
        of the new barbarians.

        Knowledge is power after all.

        Particuarly since, my leige lord, being a very wise leader, realized
        that should the time come when we would have to battle them, we
        Japanese would need to know how they fought and lived.

        Ok, i have the backstory, now I just need to pick a
        name............................

        Thanks so much for your views

        Humbly,
        Mox
      • Richard Brooks
        ... This sounds similar to mine..My persona is that of a Momoyama period Samurai woman, a warrior born roughly around 1570. Her whole life, her country has
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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          John wrote:

          >
          > Particuarly since, my leige lord, being a very wise leader, realized
          > that should the time come when we would have to battle them, we
          > Japanese would need to know how they fought and lived.

          This sounds similar to mine..My persona is that of a Momoyama period
          Samurai woman, a warrior born roughly around 1570. Her whole life, her
          country has had contact with these nanban from foreign lands, and as of
          yet, she is unsure what to think of these visitors. Some of her people
          think this contact is a good thing, others fear it could be the prelude
          to a hostile takeover or worse. So she's decided, with the blessings of
          her clan to investigate, to learn what she can of them.

          -Hirokawa no Tsuru
        • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
          ... I say...(IMHO) don t explain... Since the SCA world is as topsy-turvey as it is, and since there are so many anomolies...so many Anachronisms... then
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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            >
            > Yeah, I am aware of the stigma of being masterless, since a samurai's
            > life was to serve his liege lord, but it is hard to come up with a
            > plausable back story to explain one's presense in Europe.
            >


            I say...(IMHO) don't explain...

            Since the SCA world is as topsy-turvey as it is, and since there are
            so many anomolies...so many "Anachronisms..." then relax.

            There is no realistic way to explain any divergence, even in a
            "society" devoted to a single year:ie -1400...et al...

            A society based on a multiple time frame...(SCA Time frame being 800 -
            1600 ad) must be willing to accept the anachronisms of the various
            locational participants...

            I never did buy into the "...it's only a European..." thing...but I
            see how much the SCA has potential for...

            If you want to be a Japanese persona in the SCA...then I say do not
            try to justify it...you cannot historically justify it, under SCA
            charter... Instead, dive in and research to your heart's content...

            Stand up and say..."This is how Japanese history was...and that's what
            I am researching......ain't it fun!!!"

            The world was bigger than Europe...just as the world was bigger, and
            more round than in Christobal Columbus' time...
            ...And it was all connected...

            The SCA has a reasonably long, time honored tradition, and functioning
            in that society ("you buy the premise...you buy the bit <Heinlin>) we
            should bow to some traditions...just remember these are SCA
            traditions...born in a modern world, and not the historical past...

            ...Yet we are not recreating any one single aspect of European
            civilization...(in one single time frame) so I see no reason to try to
            "explain" a Japanese presence in a European world...with so many
            anachronisms, there is no need to...

            ...The SCA has built itself into a "not european" corner...and must
            live with it...
            For instance... One cannot justify a 13th cent. Crusader standing next
            to a Celt...or a Landshckenect standing next to a kilt-clad Highlander...
            ...One cannot justify Roman Centurians standing beside Turks or
            soldiers from the Ottoman Empire...yet you see those on our battle
            fields...

            Embrace what you enjoy as far as Asian research...but you would be
            more honest not trying to invent a justification for a "ronin
            wandering europe to find the reality of the world..." kind of story...

            Norman French (example...) do not have the only view of the
            world...and I personally see no reason to live only with that kind of
            view of the world...

            (author's note...I know some Normans...and their views do not entirely
            fit with mine...nor mine fit with theirs...yet we live together...at
            stick's length...hehehe...)

            Date Saburou Yukiie
          • Ii Saburou
            ... I recommend the archives on that subject. Should be LOTS of material by now! -Ii
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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              On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, John wrote:

              > Ok, i have the backstory, now I just need to pick a
              > name............................

              I recommend the archives on that subject. Should be LOTS of material by
              now!

              -Ii
            • Solveig
              Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... As much as I may like Karl der Gross, last time I looked, there still was no early-period cut-off in the Society s
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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                Noble Cousins!

                Greetings from Solveig!

                >A society based on a multiple time frame...(SCA Time frame being 800 -
                >1600 ad) must be willing to accept the anachronisms of the various
                >locational participants...

                As much as I may like Karl der Gross, last time I looked, there still
                was no early-period cut-off in the Society's governing documnets.
                800 is not a particularly good cut-off anyway as you miss out on
                some interesting "dark ages" stuff. Yes, you can argue that the
                chivalry got their start with Karl der Gross, but there is so much
                more going on.

                >Stand up and say..."This is how Japanese history was...and that's what
                >I am researching......ain't it fun!!!"

                Hear! Hear! Well said!

                >...The SCA has built itself into a "not european" corner...and must
                >live with it...

                At least as early ca June AS III when the East Kingdom had its very
                first event. The East Kingdom has always had Japanese. From the very
                begining.
                --

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                | the trash by my email filters. |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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