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Greetings All

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  • John
    I am thinking of getting into the SCA and I wan tto do a Japanese persona. I know that it will be a little more complicated that a standard European one, so
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 31 3:39 PM
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      I am thinking of getting into the SCA and I wan tto do a Japanese
      persona. I know that it will be a little more complicated that a
      standard European one, so any guides or guidance for a new player?

      Thanks in advance!
      Mox
    • Rosemary Norwood
      Well, Only more complicated in that not everyone you meet will want to give you advice. :) Although there are less people doing Japanese, our numbers are
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 31 3:55 PM
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        Well,

        Only more complicated in that not everyone you meet will want to give
        you advice. :) Although there are less people doing Japanese, our
        numbers are growing and at any good sized event (in the East at least) I
        meet at least one other person in Japanese.

        There's a lot of Japanese history to choose from. Where to start is hard
        to guess without knowing what you're thinking about. What kind of person
        do you want to be? A noble, peasant, scholar, samurai etc. And is there
        a period or style of Japanese history that captures your attention?

        If you're looking for style, then I would suggest looking at
        Effingham-dono's website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/Garb.html

        And/or at the Costume Museum: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/

        Yamato, Nara, Heian, Kamakura, Nambokucho, Muromachi, Sengoku and
        Momoyama periods fall between 600 and 1600 AD, which is the mostly
        recognised SCA period.

        So, more questions? Fire away! the list loves questions. :)

        Tatsu

        On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 10:39:59PM -0000, John wrote:
        > I am thinking of getting into the SCA and I wan tto do a Japanese
        > persona. I know that it will be a little more complicated that a
        > standard European one, so any guides or guidance for a new player?
        >
        > Thanks in advance!
        > Mox
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        >
      • John
        Hey ! Thanks for the fast reply. I am thinking a Kamakura period ronin. Sort of a my master was killed so I travel the earth seeking to master all fighting
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 31 4:06 PM
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          Hey !
          Thanks for the fast reply.
          I am thinking a Kamakura period ronin.

          Sort of a "my master was killed so I travel the earth seeking to
          master all fighting styles so I might avenge his death" sort of thing.

          or the " samurai sent by his Lord to travel the earth and learn the
          way of the foriengers who the Chinese are telling of"

          Would either of those be aceptable backstories?
        • Solveig
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It was very very unusual for a Japanese to want to be ronin. Further, the popular images that we have of ronin mostly
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 31 6:03 PM
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig! It was very very unusual for a Japanese to want
            to be ronin. Further, the popular images that we have of ronin mostly
            come from after 1600. Also, there is relatively less room for ronin in
            the Kamakura period than there was in later periods.
            --

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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          • Ii Saburou
            ... Warning: Ronin are _not_ well thought of characters. Although they have been romantacized later, in period if you are not affiiliated with someone then
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 31 6:20 PM
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              On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, John wrote:

              > Hey !
              > Thanks for the fast reply.
              > I am thinking a Kamakura period ronin.

              Warning: Ronin are _not_ well thought of characters. Although they have
              been romantacized later, in period if you are not affiiliated with someone
              then you are basically viewed as a beggar. I highly recommend not going
              that route.

              > or the " samurai sent by his Lord to travel the earth and learn the
              > way of the foriengers who the Chinese are telling of"
              >
              > Would either of those be aceptable backstories?

              I like the second better. That one has much more prestige to it, and
              sounds more legitimate. On the other hand, some people just don't try to
              explain away why they are not in Japan anymore (I was in Owari yesterday,
              where did all of these foreigners come from?).

              -Ii
            • John
              ... have ... someone ... going ... Yeah, I am aware of the stigma of being masterless, since a samurai s life was to serve his liege lord, but it is hard to
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 31 8:35 PM
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                > Warning: Ronin are _not_ well thought of characters. Although they
                have
                > been romantacized later, in period if you are not affiiliated with
                someone
                > then you are basically viewed as a beggar. I highly recommend not
                going
                > that route.


                Yeah, I am aware of the stigma of being masterless, since a samurai's
                life was to serve his liege lord, but it is hard to come up with a
                plausable back story to explain one's presense in Europe.

                If for no other reason, then simply because a samurai wouldnt be very
                likely to leave his home, and master to roam the earth without being
                ordered to do so.


                > I like the second better. That one has much more prestige to it, and
                > sounds more legitimate. On the other hand, some people just don't
                try to
                > explain away why they are not in Japan anymore (I was in Owari
                yesterday,
                > where did all of these foreigners come from?).

                I agree. And that is the one i preferre as well.

                Thanks so much for the insight!
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! When you are at an SCA event, you are NOT in Europe. This is true even in Drachenwald, where you are at least mundanely
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 31 11:03 PM
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                  Noble Cousins!

                  Greetings from Solveig! When you are at an SCA event, you are NOT in
                  Europe. This is true even in Drachenwald, where you are at least
                  mundanely in Europe. Rather, you are in a place more akin to the
                  island in The Tempest. Although they may like to pretend that their
                  is nothing anomolous about their presence, the facts are that there
                  is no good justification for a sixteenth century Italian dance master
                  to be in the same room with someone who went on crusade with Richard I.
                  That sort of thing did not and could not happen. Everyone should
                  view themselves as simply having arrived by some inexplicable means.

                  As for Japanese outside of Japan. Historically, such people fall into
                  several categories: slaves transported by the Iberians, monks and
                  scholars, soldiers in one or another of the Japanese expeditions
                  to Korea or other places, pirates, and others. Ronin are just about
                  the last people you would expect to run into outside of Japan.
                  Ronin most typically are desperately seeking employment. See the
                  movie Harakiri to get a better idea about such people.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                • John
                  Sloveig, You make a fine point, and one that I hadn t considered before. From the opinions i have heard here, and my own thoughts, I think I will go the route
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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                    Sloveig,
                    You make a fine point, and one that I hadn't considered before.

                    From the opinions i have heard here, and my own thoughts, I think I
                    will go the route of a samurai sent into the world to learn the ways
                    of the new barbarians.

                    Knowledge is power after all.

                    Particuarly since, my leige lord, being a very wise leader, realized
                    that should the time come when we would have to battle them, we
                    Japanese would need to know how they fought and lived.

                    Ok, i have the backstory, now I just need to pick a
                    name............................

                    Thanks so much for your views

                    Humbly,
                    Mox
                  • Richard Brooks
                    ... This sounds similar to mine..My persona is that of a Momoyama period Samurai woman, a warrior born roughly around 1570. Her whole life, her country has
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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                      John wrote:

                      >
                      > Particuarly since, my leige lord, being a very wise leader, realized
                      > that should the time come when we would have to battle them, we
                      > Japanese would need to know how they fought and lived.

                      This sounds similar to mine..My persona is that of a Momoyama period
                      Samurai woman, a warrior born roughly around 1570. Her whole life, her
                      country has had contact with these nanban from foreign lands, and as of
                      yet, she is unsure what to think of these visitors. Some of her people
                      think this contact is a good thing, others fear it could be the prelude
                      to a hostile takeover or worse. So she's decided, with the blessings of
                      her clan to investigate, to learn what she can of them.

                      -Hirokawa no Tsuru
                    • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                      ... I say...(IMHO) don t explain... Since the SCA world is as topsy-turvey as it is, and since there are so many anomolies...so many Anachronisms... then
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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                        >
                        > Yeah, I am aware of the stigma of being masterless, since a samurai's
                        > life was to serve his liege lord, but it is hard to come up with a
                        > plausable back story to explain one's presense in Europe.
                        >


                        I say...(IMHO) don't explain...

                        Since the SCA world is as topsy-turvey as it is, and since there are
                        so many anomolies...so many "Anachronisms..." then relax.

                        There is no realistic way to explain any divergence, even in a
                        "society" devoted to a single year:ie -1400...et al...

                        A society based on a multiple time frame...(SCA Time frame being 800 -
                        1600 ad) must be willing to accept the anachronisms of the various
                        locational participants...

                        I never did buy into the "...it's only a European..." thing...but I
                        see how much the SCA has potential for...

                        If you want to be a Japanese persona in the SCA...then I say do not
                        try to justify it...you cannot historically justify it, under SCA
                        charter... Instead, dive in and research to your heart's content...

                        Stand up and say..."This is how Japanese history was...and that's what
                        I am researching......ain't it fun!!!"

                        The world was bigger than Europe...just as the world was bigger, and
                        more round than in Christobal Columbus' time...
                        ...And it was all connected...

                        The SCA has a reasonably long, time honored tradition, and functioning
                        in that society ("you buy the premise...you buy the bit <Heinlin>) we
                        should bow to some traditions...just remember these are SCA
                        traditions...born in a modern world, and not the historical past...

                        ...Yet we are not recreating any one single aspect of European
                        civilization...(in one single time frame) so I see no reason to try to
                        "explain" a Japanese presence in a European world...with so many
                        anachronisms, there is no need to...

                        ...The SCA has built itself into a "not european" corner...and must
                        live with it...
                        For instance... One cannot justify a 13th cent. Crusader standing next
                        to a Celt...or a Landshckenect standing next to a kilt-clad Highlander...
                        ...One cannot justify Roman Centurians standing beside Turks or
                        soldiers from the Ottoman Empire...yet you see those on our battle
                        fields...

                        Embrace what you enjoy as far as Asian research...but you would be
                        more honest not trying to invent a justification for a "ronin
                        wandering europe to find the reality of the world..." kind of story...

                        Norman French (example...) do not have the only view of the
                        world...and I personally see no reason to live only with that kind of
                        view of the world...

                        (author's note...I know some Normans...and their views do not entirely
                        fit with mine...nor mine fit with theirs...yet we live together...at
                        stick's length...hehehe...)

                        Date Saburou Yukiie
                      • Ii Saburou
                        ... I recommend the archives on that subject. Should be LOTS of material by now! -Ii
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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                          On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, John wrote:

                          > Ok, i have the backstory, now I just need to pick a
                          > name............................

                          I recommend the archives on that subject. Should be LOTS of material by
                          now!

                          -Ii
                        • Solveig
                          Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... As much as I may like Karl der Gross, last time I looked, there still was no early-period cut-off in the Society s
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 1, 2003
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                            Noble Cousins!

                            Greetings from Solveig!

                            >A society based on a multiple time frame...(SCA Time frame being 800 -
                            >1600 ad) must be willing to accept the anachronisms of the various
                            >locational participants...

                            As much as I may like Karl der Gross, last time I looked, there still
                            was no early-period cut-off in the Society's governing documnets.
                            800 is not a particularly good cut-off anyway as you miss out on
                            some interesting "dark ages" stuff. Yes, you can argue that the
                            chivalry got their start with Karl der Gross, but there is so much
                            more going on.

                            >Stand up and say..."This is how Japanese history was...and that's what
                            >I am researching......ain't it fun!!!"

                            Hear! Hear! Well said!

                            >...The SCA has built itself into a "not european" corner...and must
                            >live with it...

                            At least as early ca June AS III when the East Kingdom had its very
                            first event. The East Kingdom has always had Japanese. From the very
                            begining.
                            --

                            Your Humble Servant
                            Solveig Throndardottir
                            Amateur Scholar

                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                            | the trash by my email filters. |
                            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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