8823Re: [SCA-JML] Specific name questions
- Nov 30, 2002Ii Saburou wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:Only if you were an Elephant Boy. <G>
> > *Ôba is indeed the family name. The *Ôba were a family descended from the
> > Taira. Kagechika's bio is on my CD Iwanami Nihonshi Jiten:
> > "?-1180. Samurai of the Cloistered Government Period. One of the Kamakura
> > partisans of the Kanmu Heishi. Based in the *Ôba-mirya of Sagami Province. On
> > the occasion of the Hôgen and Heiji Insurrections he was affiliated with
> > Minamoto no Yoshitomo, but in the time of the administration of the Heishi
> > he was named the Heishi's overseer of the Eastern Provinces, he organized
> > the punitive force against Minamoto no Yoshitomo; ultimately he was made a
> > prisoner and executed."
> > As with many (most) surnames of warriors of the period, it derived from
> > their estate. Of course, "Heida" is a likely mistranscription of "Heita"
> > which is short for "Heitarô". Likewise, "Shoji" is short for "Shojirô."
> > Clearly, these are yobina.
> Oh! That makes sense! I'll have to remember that one (so would I be
> Sabu? ;)
It was common to attach a third kanji to yobina, and in those cases the "rou" was
sometimes dropped. Note, however, that "Ryûtarô" is a different name than "Ryûta"
-- it's not a nickname, it's a variant name. Like the difference, perhaps,
between "Jonathan" and "John" as given on baptismal certs.
>I'd say once it's been in use for two or three generations it's set. Yoshinaka,
> Now the question comes in to play: when do you consider a name to be a
> name rather than just descriptive? For instance, is Kiso considered
> Yoshinaka's surname or simply a description (the Yoshinaka of Kiso).
of course, didn't have the luxury of passing Kiso down, or it might well have
become another branch of the Minamoto as so many other names did.
> Of course, the same problem occurs in Europe. I guess for naming purposes
> it doesn't entirely matter, except that you can have multiple 'family'
> names, it appears (like all of the Shibuya during the Nambokuchô Era).
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