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7860Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Question for the heralds on the list

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  • Elaine Koogler
    May 9, 2002
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      Trust me, I understand your frustration. I've been trying to do a Japanese persona for over 20 years! And have gone through the College of Heralds' efforts to allow Japanese mon while staying true to their mandate to stay within the bounds of European heraldry....particularly 14th century English heraldry. So...what this means is that it's not just Japanese heraldry that's being forced to conform to European standards. It's all of the world's heraldry being forced to conform to 14th century English standards!

      When I first registered my kamon, I was told that it had to be blazonable in European terminology, following European rules. So it was registered, sounding very European. Then the rules changed, and we were told that our mon would be registered without color (only thing other than seals that could do this), and we could display them in any color. After a while, this was changed to blazoning them only in black and white (note--second change to my original mon registration!!). At this point, I was given an augmentation...two golden dragons. When I tried to register the mon with the augmentation, I was told that I had to do them in silver rather than gold as mon were never done in anything else. I told them that a European monarch had awarded me two GOLDEN dragons, and I wasn't going to be the one to tell His Majesty that the CoH had changed his award!!! Now, as I understand it, they've gone back to what they did originally, though they do allow things like well-frames and other items which were unknown in period Europe.

      This very narrow view of what is period heraldry is frustrating not only to those of us with Japanese personae, but to anyone wishing to register heraldry from the continent. For example, the standard disallows color on color...but on the continent, it's ok to use red on black!!

      I'm not defending this narrow view, but guess they felt that they had to set up a specific standard to avoid trying to find out and establish standards for all of the variations on the theme. However, I've found that, if you document somethng thoroughly as being period, it should pass.

      Sorry for the long reply...but it's been a long process!!!

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dateyukiie
      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:43 PM
      Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Question for the heralds on the list

      --- In sca-jml@y..., Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@c...> wrote:
      > I don't see why it wouldn't be acceptable...unless someone objects
      to the combination of Japanese elements with European ones.
      > Kiri

      Konnichi wa tomodachi...O genki desuka?
      I have a simple/complex question...which I have been known to
      articulate on the odd occasion...
      Please understand that this is not meant to shoot at the many
      wonderful hearalds who have even tried to render a japanese kamon into
      hearald-speak...but I feel their efforts are needlessly wasted...
      When will the SCA get over this nonsense of only allowing the
      registration of western hearaldry...in western language?
      When will the eastern flavor be codefied and allowed, without having
      to turn our basically simple and easy to render descriptions of
      devices into language understood by the Marquis du Sod?
      Cal it a Kamon, mon, or any other Japanese "form" of visual
      identification (lest anyone object to the western word device) and a
      whole new set of rules apply...by definition, the language difference
      should preclude arguments between a roman soldier who has a pair of
      bent willow trees for a badge, and a japanese who displays bamboo in a
      demi circle, which is not a Roman Laural...(example only...)
      The clothing and persona of the wearer is already two points of
      difference...the language is a third...
      I know this is a ball of fire...but I just wanted to hear what other
      esteemed gentles think...on this list, anyway...
      Domo arigato...
      Yama Kaminari no Date Saburo Yukiie

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