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28788Re: [SCA-JML] Treason during the Sengoku periodi Re: Yagyu

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  • Michael
    Jul 31, 2014
      The question was, why are the Yagyu viewed in most popular fiction as evil bad guys, not weather what they did was right or wrong.  None of us truly know what actual conditions were in that time, history is written by the victors so we now only know what 250 years of Tokugawa rule allows us to know.  Did a lowly farmer have more claim to the shogunate than the backwoods samurai clan of the Matsudaira that had to fabricate their relationship to the Minamoto clan.  In retrospect who cares right, it's all just arm chair samurai fan-boy (and girl) stuff.  If your Japanese teacher is not fluent in the nuances of 16th century katakana and kanji and the proper use of the grammar of the age then they are really just fans of history like us.  They have read some stuff that other people who love reading about that era.

      On Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:31 AM, "James Eckman ronin_engineer@... [sca-jml]" <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Treason, a game all warriors played in this period ;)
      > Posted by: "Michael"
      > The Yagyu were traitors, while being sworn to fight for the side supporting the heir of Hideyoshi, they had made secret arrangements to fight for the Tokugawa and in the middle of the battle, after having sat and done nothing for the opening encounters, sided with Ieyasu' army.
      I'm not sure what type of allegiance the Yagyuu clan swore to Saru
      (Hideyoshi) but it might have been personal, not to the clan in general.
      Thus not treason since he was dead.

      Also was Hideyori really the successor?

      Did members of the Toyotomi clan break promises to the Yagyuu?
      Allegiance is a two way street.

      If not, not treason.
      > As we all have differing opinions about history, Toyotomi Hideyoshi was a megalomaniacal peasant that had no right to the Shogunate let alone to carry two swords.
      ROTFL. I guess I'm too American to believe in nobility, so since he did,
      he had the right.
      > But Yagyu, no matter if the changed from losing side to winning side, or from good guys to bad guys... they are traitors, plain and simple.
      Simple views are misleading in what one of my Japanese teachers called
      the age of betrayal.


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