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21381Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Off topic but strange

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  • Barbara Nostrand
    Jun 25, 2006
      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig! There is no need for a snarly tone.
      >> The question is not whether or not pony soldiers mostly functioned
      >> as dragoons. The question is whether or not there was a cavalry
      >> charge. As in a mounted charge by British regulars.
      > The questions I was addressing was the falacy of Omdurman as the
      > last British cavalry charge, and the contention that the last
      > charge was supposed to have taken place during the South African
      > War. I made no assertion of "pony soldiers" acting as dragoons
      > during the SAW, but asserted that most horsed units during that
      > conflict acted as mounted infantry (there is a difference between
      > dragoons and mounted infantry; you would be well advised to educate
      > yourself in such matters before incorrectly ascribing meaning to
      > another's post). I offered this statement to re-iterate that the
      > last British cavalry charge definitely did not occur during the
      > SAW, as that war saw little, if any, true cavalry action. The
      > question that you raise here, of whether or not there was a mounted
      > charge by British regulars, I addressed further on in my posting.

      Then, I suggest that you go change the definition at Wikipedia.

      > A dragoon is a soldier trained to fight on foot, but transport
      > himself on horseback. In other words, they move as cavalry but
      > fight as infantry. The name derives from their primary weapon, a
      > carbine or short musket called the dragon. Sometimes dragon
      > carbines are said to be called as such because they "breathed fire"
      > � a reference to the smoke they emitted when fired.
      > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon

      The fourth edition of The American Heritage College Dictionary claims
      that dragoons are European military units trained fight either on
      horse or on foot. I am bit suspect of this as I know from an
      historical marker that units called dragoons were active in Illinois.

      > Since you don't question the actions of the Buckinghamshire Hussars
      > and the 20th Hussars noted in my last post, I take it we agree that
      > Omdurman was definitely not the last British cavalry charge, which
      > is sufficient to make my point.
      > Most of the above actions are covered in Lord Angelsey's, "A
      > History of the British Cavalry," Volume 8, Appendix I. However, as
      > you may find this book difficult to obtain;
      > For the Scinde Horse in Iraq;
      > http://www.smallwars.quantico.usmc.mil/search/articles/Only%20by%
      > 20the%20Sword%202004.rtf
      > For the Cheshire Yeomanry against the Vichy French (my mistake--in
      > Syria, not at Mers-el-Kebir);
      > http://web.archive.org/web/20041012171133/http://www.chester.ac.uk/
      > news/jan2004/bluecoat.html
      > http://www.answers.com/topic/timeline-of-the-british-army (entry
      > under 9 June 1941)
      > For elements of the Burma Frontier Force at Toungoo, 1942;
      > http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=436

      Thank you for providing references. Those work a lot better at
      winning arguments than simply asserting your own expertise and
      demanding that people trust you.

      > Now, would you be so good as to reciprocate by offering references
      > to support your contention that "The last regular army British
      > cavalry charge was supposed to be during the Boar [sic] War." I've
      > already indicated a number of charges that post-date the South
      > African War, but I'd be most interested in any reliable account of
      > a cavalry charge in the SAW.

      I was never particularly invested in this particular point. This was
      something that was mentioned during a documentary biography of Sir
      Winston Chruchill which I saw several years ago. Consequently, I am
      quite happy to believe that there were other cavalry charges
      conducted by British regulars provided that someone can point to some
      reliable documentation for it. I have seen more than enough entirely
      vapor-ware documentation out there. For example, someone has cooked
      up a Wikipedia entry for a dubious Japanese art form. In this case,
      the name they are ascribing to their martial art does not even appear
      in Daijirin first edition. Incidentally, Daijirin is a 2000 page J-J
      dictionary published by Sanseido. (Or at least so I recall. I am
      about 5 hours away from my copy at the moment.)

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

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