Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

20236Re: [SCA-JML] Fwd: Seeking Japanese Heraldry Info/ help

Expand Messages
  • Anthony Bryant
    Dec 22, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      chris hansen wrote:
      > Greetings,
      > I would beg most respectfully to differ with you.
      > My reaserch is that Suenaga were among earliest retainers Hojo. One of
      > thier members played a proinent role agianst the mongol invasion in 1274
      > and was on the battlefield during the second invasion.

      I hate to tell you this, but Takezaki Suenaga was not "a
      Suenaga." In his case, "Suenaga" was his given name, not his
      surname. There is no familial connection.

      It's that simple. No connection.

      > They then
      > disapear from readily availible liturature for 200 years. Reapearing as
      > the holders of Noda Castle in Mikawa during the first half of the 16th
      > century although they had lost control of it by the time it was besieged
      > by Takeda Shingen.

      That may be possible, but of the 8,000 odd entries in the
      Sengoku Jinmei Jiten, only TWO people with that surname
      appear -- neither of them down in central Honshu. The ones
      who DO appear were vassals of the Kasai, who governed Mutsu
      for a few centuries (until the Date came along <G>).

      > there is also a refence to them holding another
      > fortress prior to thier occupation of Noda Castle

      Well, I can't find any references here or online for a
      Suenaga as joshu of Noda castle. The only time "Suenaga"
      shows up with "Noda castle" in my searches shows a modern
      author named Suenaga Katsusuke whose book happens to be
      mentioned somewhere on the same page as Noda Castle has a
      mention. And it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the
      castle.

      Noda was a small castle, with a garrison size of about 400
      samurai, and was held by the Imagawa before the Tokugawa
      (who held it during Shingen's failed assault of 1573).
      Though either the Imagawa or Tokugawa *may* have assigned
      someone named Sunenaga to be the garrison commander, there's
      no indication in *my* records -- or that I can find -- that
      the castle was held by anyone with that name.During
      Shingen's assault, the garrison commander was Suganuma
      Sadamitsu, aided by Matsudaira Tadamasa. Suganuma was put
      into that position in 1561.

      I've just looked over a dozen histories of Noda, and none
      mentioned the name Suenaga. It was built first by Suganuma
      Sadanori (possibly read Sadatoki; the grandfather of
      Sadamitsu) in 1505-08 -- so it seems to have been in
      Suganuma hands through their vassalage to the Imagawa
      through their tenure under the Tokugawa. No Suenagas.

      Barring any clearer documentation, it seems you were given
      some erroneous data.


      >In the modern era they
      > are a promienent family in Japan with many members in teaching in
      > higher education and at least one B movie actress (Haruka).

      I haven't verified this, but the chance that she's really a
      Suenaga are about 1 out of 100. Japanese entertainers almost
      *always* take a stage name -- especially if they're "boin
      tarento."

      > They are
      > also a respected part of the japanese comunity in Hawaii and the San
      > Fracisco area. During the second world war the head of the Clan who at
      > that time was a resident of Hawaii was interred in southern Colorado for
      > the duration of the war in protest he has refused to speak english since
      > 1942.

      Well, I can't speak to any of this -- but for the record,
      you're talking about a household, a family, not a clan. The
      Suenaga -- such as they may have been -- were never so
      mighty or numerous to rank "clan" status, as at all periods
      the families bearing that surname (such as they existed at
      all) were vassal houses of apparently second- or third-rate
      lords in the first place.

      The only two I can find any reference to as having any
      authority were in the mid 16th century under the Kisai, and
      though one was a garrison commander he was also implicated
      in the plot to assassinate his lord during battle with a
      rival lord. Sorry, but in all family histories there may be
      found a horse-thief; but in this case, this is the only
      person of note in Sengoku history (apparently) to have had
      that surname.


      Effingham
      --

      Anthony J. Bryant
      Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

      Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
      http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

      All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
      http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
    • Show all 12 messages in this topic