20236Re: [SCA-JML] Fwd: Seeking Japanese Heraldry Info/ help
- Dec 22, 2005chris hansen wrote:
> Greetings,I hate to tell you this, but Takezaki Suenaga was not "a
> I would beg most respectfully to differ with you.
> My reaserch is that Suenaga were among earliest retainers Hojo. One of
> thier members played a proinent role agianst the mongol invasion in 1274
> and was on the battlefield during the second invasion.
Suenaga." In his case, "Suenaga" was his given name, not his
surname. There is no familial connection.
It's that simple. No connection.
> They thenThat may be possible, but of the 8,000 odd entries in the
> disapear from readily availible liturature for 200 years. Reapearing as
> the holders of Noda Castle in Mikawa during the first half of the 16th
> century although they had lost control of it by the time it was besieged
> by Takeda Shingen.
Sengoku Jinmei Jiten, only TWO people with that surname
appear -- neither of them down in central Honshu. The ones
who DO appear were vassals of the Kasai, who governed Mutsu
for a few centuries (until the Date came along <G>).
> there is also a refence to them holding anotherWell, I can't find any references here or online for a
> fortress prior to thier occupation of Noda Castle
Suenaga as joshu of Noda castle. The only time "Suenaga"
shows up with "Noda castle" in my searches shows a modern
author named Suenaga Katsusuke whose book happens to be
mentioned somewhere on the same page as Noda Castle has a
mention. And it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the
Noda was a small castle, with a garrison size of about 400
samurai, and was held by the Imagawa before the Tokugawa
(who held it during Shingen's failed assault of 1573).
Though either the Imagawa or Tokugawa *may* have assigned
someone named Sunenaga to be the garrison commander, there's
no indication in *my* records -- or that I can find -- that
the castle was held by anyone with that name.During
Shingen's assault, the garrison commander was Suganuma
Sadamitsu, aided by Matsudaira Tadamasa. Suganuma was put
into that position in 1561.
I've just looked over a dozen histories of Noda, and none
mentioned the name Suenaga. It was built first by Suganuma
Sadanori (possibly read Sadatoki; the grandfather of
Sadamitsu) in 1505-08 -- so it seems to have been in
Suganuma hands through their vassalage to the Imagawa
through their tenure under the Tokugawa. No Suenagas.
Barring any clearer documentation, it seems you were given
some erroneous data.
>In the modern era theyI haven't verified this, but the chance that she's really a
> are a promienent family in Japan with many members in teaching in
> higher education and at least one B movie actress (Haruka).
Suenaga are about 1 out of 100. Japanese entertainers almost
*always* take a stage name -- especially if they're "boin
> They areWell, I can't speak to any of this -- but for the record,
> also a respected part of the japanese comunity in Hawaii and the San
> Fracisco area. During the second world war the head of the Clan who at
> that time was a resident of Hawaii was interred in southern Colorado for
> the duration of the war in protest he has refused to speak english since
you're talking about a household, a family, not a clan. The
Suenaga -- such as they may have been -- were never so
mighty or numerous to rank "clan" status, as at all periods
the families bearing that surname (such as they existed at
all) were vassal houses of apparently second- or third-rate
lords in the first place.
The only two I can find any reference to as having any
authority were in the mid 16th century under the Kisai, and
though one was a garrison commander he was also implicated
in the plot to assassinate his lord during battle with a
rival lord. Sorry, but in all family histories there may be
found a horse-thief; but in this case, this is the only
person of note in Sengoku history (apparently) to have had
Anthony J. Bryant
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
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