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Re: [sawsmith] Re: Sawsmith Anti-Kickback Pawl Album

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  • Carl Finch
    ... Unless you can figure out a way to make the motor run backwards, yes. ;-) (For cross-cutting, the fence prevents wood from being flung off the back of the
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 10, 2013
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      At 07:22 AM 6/10/2013, heathicus.geo wrote:

      >Am I correct in my understanding that the anti-kickback arm is
      >really only usable for rip cuts?

      Unless you can figure out a way to make the motor run backwards, yes. ;-)

      (For cross-cutting, the fence prevents wood from being flung off the
      back of the table.)

      Please bear in mind that this anti-kickback gizmo is far from
      foolproof! It must be carefully adjusted for each use. The pawl
      tips must rest on the wood piece to be cut in such a way that if the
      saw blade attempts to catch and kick the piece back, they will tend
      to dig in.

      I have added a modified photo (from "Fun with a Saw") to
      Grandpadon's album, "Sawsmith Anti-Kickback Pawl" to show the proper
      and IMPROPER setting of this critical device. The "too high" and
      "too low" positions I've shown will not prevent kickback! Of course
      it also depends upon the hardness of the workpiece and the sharpness
      of the pawls. It's an "iffy" device!

      Carl Finch
      Medford, Oregon
    • windgooroo1@att.net
      I’ll chime in here and 2d your take on those things. Better than nothing (maybe), but not by much. My worry about them also includes an unreasonable doubt
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 10, 2013
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        I’ll chime in here and 2d your take on those things. Better than nothing (maybe), but not by much. My worry about them also includes an unreasonable doubt about the strength of the guard itself when there’s so much potential force developed by the length of the sliding pawl arm when slammed by a big piece of wood. Such a weird arrangement, and more so because of the excellent design of the ShopSmith table saw kick-back device. I don’t get it.
        Matt
         
        Sent from Windows Mail
         
        From: Carl Finch
        Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎June‎ ‎10‎, ‎2013 ‎11‎:‎27‎ ‎AM
        To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com; sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
         
         

        At 07:22 AM 6/10/2013, heathicus.geo wrote:

        >Am I correct in my understanding that the anti-kickback arm is
        >really only usable for rip cuts?

        Unless you can figure out a way to make the motor run backwards, yes. ;-)

        (For cross-cutting, the fence prevents wood from being flung off the
        back of the table.)

        Please bear in mind that this anti-kickback gizmo is far from
        foolproof! It must be carefully adjusted for each use. The pawl
        tips must rest on the wood piece to be cut in such a way that if the
        saw blade attempts to catch and kick the piece back, they will tend
        to dig in.

        I have added a modified photo (from "Fun with a Saw") to
        Grandpadon's album, "Sawsmith Anti-Kickback Pawl" to show the proper
        and IMPROPER setting of this critical device. The "too high" and
        "too low" positions I've shown will not prevent kickback! Of course
        it also depends upon the hardness of the workpiece and the sharpness
        of the pawls. It's an "iffy" device!

        Carl Finch
        Medford, Oregon

      • pnhofmann
        Thank you all for the photos. That last one is especially interesting - I would have set the device way too low. I ve ordered a copy of Fun with a Saw but
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 10, 2013
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          Thank you all for the photos. That last one is especially interesting - I would have set the device way too low. I've ordered a copy of "Fun with a Saw" but it's on the slow boat from England and may take awhile to get here. In the meantime I'm wondering if anyone has other resources they can point me to.

          The previous owner of my Sawsmith had it set-up exclusively for cross cutting and I am hoping to use the machine for other tasks. I've read that operations such as ripping can be dangerous if performed improperly but haven't found much on how to do things correctly. For example, poking around YouTube reveals videos like this (http://youtu.be/C5Q1iU0vGhU) and this (http://youtu.be/QBLhvQ6eP04), both of which show techniques I've seen described elsewhere as unsafe. I'd love to see something that goes into detail of which jigs to use where to apply (or not apply) pressure, etc.

          --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, <windgooroo1@...> wrote:
          >
          > I’ll chime in here and 2d your take on those things. Better than nothing (maybe), but not by much. My worry about them also includes an unreasonable doubt about the strength of the guard itself when there’s so much potential force developed by the length of the sliding pawl arm when slammed by a big piece of wood. Such a weird arrangement, and more so because of the excellent design of the ShopSmith table saw kick-back device. I don’t get it.
          >
          > Matt
          >
          >
          >
          > Sent from Windows Mail
          >
          >
          >
          > From: Carl Finch
          > Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎June‎ ‎10‎, ‎2013 ‎11‎:‎27‎ ‎AM
          > To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com; sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > At 07:22 AM 6/10/2013, heathicus.geo wrote:
          >
          > >Am I correct in my understanding that the anti-kickback arm is
          > >really only usable for rip cuts?
          >
          > Unless you can figure out a way to make the motor run backwards, yes. ;-)
          >
          > (For cross-cutting, the fence prevents wood from being flung off the
          > back of the table.)
          >
          > Please bear in mind that this anti-kickback gizmo is far from
          > foolproof! It must be carefully adjusted for each use. The pawl
          > tips must rest on the wood piece to be cut in such a way that if the
          > saw blade attempts to catch and kick the piece back, they will tend
          > to dig in.
          >
          > I have added a modified photo (from "Fun with a Saw") to
          > Grandpadon's album, "Sawsmith Anti-Kickback Pawl" to show the proper
          > and IMPROPER setting of this critical device. The "too high" and
          > "too low" positions I've shown will not prevent kickback! Of course
          > it also depends upon the hardness of the workpiece and the sharpness
          > of the pawls. It's an "iffy" device!
          >
          > Carl Finch
          > Medford, Oregon
          >
        • windgooroo1@att.net
          The SawSmith is a good, versatile machine designed as a multi-tool for people who lacked the space and/or funds required for a “real” wood shop. As a RA
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 11, 2013
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            The SawSmith is a good, versatile machine designed as a multi-tool for people who lacked the space and/or funds required for a “real” wood shop. As a RA you won’t find many saws with such a small motor that can match it, certainly not for build quality and precision, and when set up as a router they can work very nicely.
             
            However. As a rip saw they are awkward to use, very limited in application and potentially dangerous. The danger comes mainly from the unavoidable fact of the blade’s exposure and all the potential for things coming in contact with it during operation. Actual table saws have their blades safely (sort of) tucked away below the table, leaving just enough exposed to accomplish the job at hand. Added to that, on saws made after the Federal safety regulations came into effect, are very annoying blade covers and anti kickback devices designed to further limit potential hazards. While these safety features can be a real bother, you can take it form me that having them present is WAY better than not.
             
             I spent much of my youth working in a boat yard that was full of very large and powerful woodworking machinery that was all made before safety was even an issue - like you wouldn’t even believe how dangerous every device on the floor was. And in spite of the vast experience and expertise of my co-workers, there were still problems. My dad was the owner and probably the best woodworker I’ve ever known, and he never had an accident in 60 years that I know of. However, most every other guy in the shop was scarred and/or missing digits in various degrees of magnitude - thumbs seemed a popular target - and they all treated the machines with extreme respect and caution. You can imagine. Probably the two scariest saws were an 8’ high bandsaw and a 5 horsepower table saw that could slice through 6” Teak like dry Pine. No covers, no kick-back preventer, no mercy. I still have hearing loss from that job. 😉
             
            I see the SawSmith as a tiny version of those dangerous machines - when used by inexperienced hands, especially; technically intriguing and potentially lethal. Kind of like playing with big fireworks. You would be much better off to find yourself a nice tablesaw and use the SS for crosscuts.
             
            Sorry for the long story!
            Matt
             
            Sent from Windows Mail
             
            From: pnhofmann
            Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎June‎ ‎10‎, ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎18‎ ‎PM
            To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
             
             

            Thank you all for the photos. That last one is especially interesting - I would have set the device way too low. I've ordered a copy of "Fun with a Saw" but it's on the slow boat from England and may take awhile to get here. In the meantime I'm wondering if anyone has other resources they can point me to.

            The previous owner of my Sawsmith had it set-up exclusively for cross cutting and I am hoping to use the machine for other tasks. I've read that operations such as ripping can be dangerous if performed improperly but haven't found much on how to do things correctly. For example, poking around YouTube reveals videos like this (http://youtu.be/C5Q1iU0vGhU) and this (http://youtu.be/QBLhvQ6eP04), both of which show techniques I've seen described elsewhere as unsafe. I'd love to see something that goes into detail of which jigs to use where to apply (or not apply) pressure, etc.

            --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, <windgooroo1@...> wrote:
            >
            > I’ll chime in here and 2d your take on those things. Better than nothing (maybe), but not by much. My worry about them also includes an unreasonable doubt about the strength of the guard itself when there’s so much potential force developed by the length of the sliding pawl arm when slammed by a big piece of wood. Such a weird arrangement, and more so because of the excellent design of the ShopSmith table saw kick-back device. I don’t get it.
            >
            > Matt
            >
            >
            >
            > Sent from Windows Mail
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Carl Finch
            > Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎June‎ ‎10‎, ‎2013 ‎11‎:‎27‎ ‎AM
            > To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com; sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > At 07:22 AM 6/10/2013, heathicus.geo wrote:
            >
            > >Am I correct in my understanding that the anti-kickback arm is
            > >really only usable for rip cuts?
            >
            > Unless you can figure out a way to make the motor run backwards, yes. ;-)
            >
            > (For cross-cutting, the fence prevents wood from being flung off the
            > back of the table.)
            >
            > Please bear in mind that this anti-kickback gizmo is far from
            > foolproof! It must be carefully adjusted for each use. The pawl
            > tips must rest on the wood piece to be cut in such a way that if the
            > saw blade attempts to catch and kick the piece back, they will tend
            > to dig in.
            >
            > I have added a modified photo (from "Fun with a Saw") to
            > Grandpadon's album, "Sawsmith Anti-Kickback Pawl" to show the proper
            > and IMPROPER setting of this critical device. The "too high" and
            > "too low" positions I've shown will not prevent kickback! Of course
            > it also depends upon the hardness of the workpiece and the sharpness
            > of the pawls. It's an "iffy" device!
            >
            > Carl Finch
            > Medford, Oregon
            >

          • pnhofmann
            Good advice Matt. I finally got my copy of Fun with a Saw and, ironically, I think it has me even more confused. It validates my original perception that a
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 18, 2013
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              Good advice Matt. I finally got my copy of 'Fun with a Saw' and, ironically, I think it has me even more confused. It validates my original perception that a good RAS can be the foundation of a small shop and handle a wide variety of applications. But it also shows procedures and techniques that I've been warned against. A modern table saw with a cross cut sled probably makes more sense for me so if anyone knows someone in the San Diego area looking for a Saw Smith ...

              Best,

              Patrick

              --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, <windgooroo1@...> wrote:
              >
              > The SawSmith is a good, versatile machine designed as a multi-tool for people who lacked the space and/or funds required for a “real” wood shop. As a RA you won’t find many saws with such a small motor that can match it, certainly not for build quality and precision, and when set up as a router they can work very nicely.
              >
              >
              > However. As a rip saw they are awkward to use, very limited in application and potentially dangerous. The danger comes mainly from the unavoidable fact of the blade’s exposure and all the potential for things coming in contact with it during operation. Actual table saws have their blades safely (sort of) tucked away below the table, leaving just enough exposed to accomplish the job at hand. Added to that, on saws made after the Federal safety regulations came into effect, are very annoying blade covers and anti kickback devices designed to further limit potential hazards. While these safety features can be a real bother, you can take it form me that having them present is WAY better than not.
              >
              >
              > I spent much of my youth working in a boat yard that was full of very large and powerful woodworking machinery that was all made before safety was even an issue - like you wouldn’t even believe how dangerous every device on the floor was. And in spite of the vast experience and expertise of my co-workers, there were still problems. My dad was the owner and probably the best woodworker I’ve ever known, and he never had an accident in 60 years that I know of. However, most every other guy in the shop was scarred and/or missing digits in various degrees of magnitude - thumbs seemed a popular target - and they all treated the machines with extreme respect and caution. You can imagine. Probably the two scariest saws were an 8’ high bandsaw and a 5 horsepower table saw that could slice through 6” Teak like dry Pine. No covers, no kick-back preventer, no mercy. I still have hearing loss from that job. 😉
              >
              >
              > I see the SawSmith as a tiny version of those dangerous machines - when used by inexperienced hands, especially;technically intriguing and potentially lethal. Kind of like playing with big fireworks. You would be much better off to find yourself a nice tablesaw and use the SS for crosscuts.
              >
              >
              > Sorry for the long story!
              >
              > Matt
              >
              >
              >
              > Sent from Windows Mail
              >
              >
              >
              > From: pnhofmann
              > Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎June‎ ‎10‎, ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎18‎ ‎PM
              > To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Thank you all for the photos. That last one is especially interesting - I would have set the device way too low. I've ordered a copy of "Fun with a Saw" but it's on the slow boat from England and may take awhile to get here. In the meantime I'm wondering if anyone has other resources they can point me to.
              >
              > The previous owner of my Sawsmith had it set-up exclusively for cross cutting and I am hoping to use the machine for other tasks. I've read that operations such as ripping can be dangerous if performed improperly but haven't found much on how to do things correctly. For example, poking around YouTube reveals videos like this (http://youtu.be/C5Q1iU0vGhU) and this (http://youtu.be/QBLhvQ6eP04), both of which show techniques I've seen described elsewhere as unsafe. I'd love to see something that goes into detail of which jigs to use where to apply (or not apply) pressure, etc.
              >
              > --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, <windgooroo1@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I’ll chime in here and 2d your take on those things. Better than nothing (maybe), but not by much. My worry about them also includes an unreasonable doubt about the strength of the guard itself when there’s so much potential force developed by the length of the sliding pawl arm when slammed by a big piece of wood. Such a weird arrangement, and more so because of the excellent design of the ShopSmith table saw kick-back device. I don’t get it.
              > >
              > > Matt
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Sent from Windows Mail
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > From: Carl Finch
              > > Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎June‎ ‎10‎, ‎2013 ‎11‎:‎27‎ ‎AM
              > > To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com; sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > At 07:22 AM 6/10/2013, heathicus.geo wrote:
              > >
              > > >Am I correct in my understanding that the anti-kickback arm is
              > > >really only usable for rip cuts?
              > >
              > > Unless you can figure out a way to make the motor run backwards, yes. ;-)
              > >
              > > (For cross-cutting, the fence prevents wood from being flung off the
              > > back of the table.)
              > >
              > > Please bear in mind that this anti-kickback gizmo is far from
              > > foolproof! It must be carefully adjusted for each use. The pawl
              > > tips must rest on the wood piece to be cut in such a way that if the
              > > saw blade attempts to catch and kick the piece back, they will tend
              > > to dig in.
              > >
              > > I have added a modified photo (from "Fun with a Saw") to
              > > Grandpadon's album, "Sawsmith Anti-Kickback Pawl" to show the proper
              > > and IMPROPER setting of this critical device. The "too high" and
              > > "too low" positions I've shown will not prevent kickback! Of course
              > > it also depends upon the hardness of the workpiece and the sharpness
              > > of the pawls. It's an "iffy" device!
              > >
              > > Carl Finch
              > > Medford, Oregon
              > >
              >
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