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Re: SawSmith Nut Project

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  • dpyhgp
    Hi Rick and Wayne, I ll indulge a little bit here with the understanding that this is off topic for a group on sawsmiths :-) After failing to land a meaningful
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 29, 2010
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      Hi Rick and Wayne,

      I'll indulge a little bit here with the understanding that this is off topic for a group on sawsmiths :-)

      After failing to land a meaningful career with the ITM degree, I found a way to go back to school and added on electrical engineering which presently pays my bills. It's not my first choice, but I'm glad to be employed. Don't know how I've survived the layoffs over the years, but I keep on working.

      It would be nice to get away from the corporate world and go it alone, which is my personal dream. But since I'm a cancer survivor and can't get health insurance for a reasonable price on my own, I continue to be a slave in the system. I don't think Obama's plans are going to change this equation for me anytime soon.

      During my cancer treatments, the activity that kept me sane was rebuilding a 1957 Mark V. I now have 2 mark Vs, one mark VII, the sawsmith, a power stand, and almost all of the accessories. These were craigslist specials that either nobody wanted or I was lucky to be first in line. I still have some work to do on some of these old tools.

      My sawsmith was something I picked up originally for the included accessories to use on the shopsmith (belt sander and jointer). However, it's probably the best tool in my collection as I don't think the previous owners used it that much. Only problem with it was a few missing parts, including the arbor nuts :-)

      Rick,

      I'm referring to the Gingery series of books about building metal working machines from scratch. I wish I had these books in high school as I would have spent my metal shop time building my own tools. The things I made in my last year of HS metal shop was a engine hoist and matching stand. Plans were from an article in Popular Mechanics which I beefed up a bit. Got a blue ribbon in the state shop show but some other student made a trailer and got the golden anvil :-)

      My brother 'stole/borrowed' the hoist for use in his auto repair business the summer after I built it. He still has it. I remember stopping by one day and seeing my other brother's full sized 78 Bronco being lifted by my hoist from the front bumper. No sweat with my beefed up design, but I told both brothers not to pick up anything that has a big diesel in it.

      You can still buy the Gingery books at Lindsay:
      http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/index.html
      Direct link:
      http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html

      There are other items in their book list that would likely interest you.

      Also, there is a Yahoo group on the Gingery machines:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/

      Check out the pictures.

      I asked my auto repair brother to save any aluminum castings that were going to be junked, mostly automatic transmission housings. I now have enough surplus aluminum lying around to build the Gingery machines, but I'll wait until my sons are older and make it a family affair.

      Regards,

      -David



      --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, RedfieldRH@... wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > I also love acquiring old machinist books and resources on ebay from the '40s through the '60s. Classic stuff, great illustrations, and a cool addition to the shop library. Which Gingery series were you referring to? I am familiar with their catalog but don't know the series.
      >
      > Thanks again for your great comments and best of luck with your future machinists!
      >
      > Rick
      >
      >
      >
    • rick.redfield
      To All: Nothing like a little spare time together. We spent two great days together in the Man Cave. Cory used his new machinist tools just delivered by Santa
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 28, 2010
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        To All:

        Nothing like a little spare time together. We spent two great days together in the Man Cave. Cory used his new machinist tools just delivered by Santa to good effect and we had some great days together. It is amazing to sit back and watch someone else going to town on the lathe!

        The Go-NoGo gauge was a great success. It was something to spin the original left hand nut onto the new threads.

        Now to start hacking off 4 inch chunks of hexagonal bar stock and try backwards internal threading. We will be picking up the thread on each cut blind from inside the chuck. The skills will be put to the test!

        Stay tuned. Hope everyone had a great Christmas, and managed to make great sawdust. A safe and happy New Year to everyone. Soon the day of the missing nut case will be solved.
      • RedfieldRH@aol.com
        Forgot to mention to check out the new pictures of the two nut cases at work!
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 28, 2010
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          Forgot to mention to check out the new pictures of the two nut cases at work!

        • cslattery1883@sbcglobal.net
          That spindle looks pretty good. Which way does your lathe thread? I have a piece of garbage Enco lathe that only threads from right to left, so if you are not
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 1, 2011
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            That spindle looks pretty good. Which way does your lathe thread? I have a piece of garbage Enco lathe that only threads from right to left, so if you are not fast enough it will run into the chuck.

            Chris

            --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, "rick.redfield" <RedfieldRH@...> wrote:
            >
            > To All:
            >
            > Nothing like a little spare time together. We spent two great days together in the Man Cave. Cory used his new machinist tools just delivered by Santa to good effect and we had some great days together. It is amazing to sit back and watch someone else going to town on the lathe!
            >
            > The Go-NoGo gauge was a great success. It was something to spin the original left hand nut onto the new threads.
            >
            > Now to start hacking off 4 inch chunks of hexagonal bar stock and try backwards internal threading. We will be picking up the thread on each cut blind from inside the chuck. The skills will be put to the test!
            >
            > Stay tuned. Hope everyone had a great Christmas, and managed to make great sawdust. A safe and happy New Year to everyone. Soon the day of the missing nut case will be solved.
            >
          • RedfieldRH@aol.com
            Chris, we are making steady progress. You should see the look on Cory s face at each step of the way! He s hooked. We just finished grinding a custom internal
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 3, 2011
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              Chris, we are making steady progress. You should see the look on Cory's face at each step of the way! He's hooked. We just finished grinding a custom internal threading tool from a 3/16 drill bit which will be cut to length and fit into the smallest boring bar I have to be able to pass inside the 5/8 bore we drilled. This nut is a very odd size at 21/32 ID which is probably one of the reasons they are hard to come by. We don't have a lot of room for the boring bar and bit.  I will try to upload more pictures tomorrow.

              Regarding your lathe, you should be able to reverse the carriage direction of feed via a shifter on the gear train on the back of the headstock. This reverses the direction of the lead screw while keeping the spindle (chuck) rotation the same. Do you have a quick change box or do you have to manually change gears for different thread pitches? Send your model number and I can Google it to see if I can help with more features.

              If you thread from left to right, you produce a left hand thread, which is how we are doing this! So that is not the answer for you. Normal feed for basic turning and threading should usually be from right to left, although many cuts are done towards the tailstock to complete work such as forming shoulders, etc.

              In fact, many times one has to thread up to a shoulder and stop quickly to not crash into the metal! This is common, so the feed direction won't help you. This is part of the excitement of threading! One has to very quickly disengage the half nuts at the exact time. We always thread in back gear mode so the stock rotation is slow enough to make this humanly possible. Make sure you have back gears on your lathe, or at least use the slowest possible spindle speed. Some old timers would turn the threading bit upside down and could then thread right hand threads from left to right by running the spindle in reverse! Unfortunately, on my lathe this would unscrew the chuck!

              For the final phase, we will be cutting the internal left hand threads feeding blind from deep inside the chuck. This is where it all comes together for Cory as you have to rely on your training and know-how, and depend on the thread dial to pick up the thread blind on each pass. Should be fun!

              Rick



              -----Original Message-----
              From: cslattery1883@... <cslattery1883@...>
              To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 9:31 pm
              Subject: [sawsmith] Re: SawSmith Nut Project

               
              That spindle looks pretty good. Which way does your lathe thread? I have a piece of garbage Enco lathe that only threads from right to left, so if you are not fast enough it will run into the chuck.

              Chris

              --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, "rick.redfield" <RedfieldRH@...> wrote:
              >
              > To All:
              >
              > Nothing like a little spare time together. We spent two great days together in the Man Cave. Cory used his new machinist tools just delivered by Santa to good effect and we had some great days together. It is amazing to sit back and watch someone else going to town on the lathe!
              >
              > The Go-NoGo gauge was a great success. It was something to spin the original left hand nut onto the new threads.
              >
              > Now to start hacking off 4 inch chunks of hexagonal bar stock and try backwards internal threading. We will be picking up the thread on each cut blind from inside the chuck. The skills will be put to the test!
              >
              > Stay tuned. Hope everyone had a great Christmas, and managed to make great sawdust. A safe and happy New Year to everyone. Soon the day of the missing nut case will be solved.
              >

            • Van Alston
              Rick, it sounds like you guys are having a blast. I ve got a five year old and we don t quite delve into such big projects. Mostly birdhouses, Christmas
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 3, 2011
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                Rick, it sounds like you guys are having a blast. I've got a five
                year old and we don't quite delve into such big projects. Mostly
                birdhouses, Christmas ornaments and the like. But I know the fun of
                working together with the little guy and I sure hope he has that same
                enthusiasm when he gets to be your son's age.

                Van
              • RedfieldRH@aol.com
                There is no more fun than working together in the shop! We started at that age as well, and Cory had his own workbench and tools. All through Cub Scouts Mr R s
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 4, 2011
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                  There is no more fun than working together in the shop! We started at that age as well, and Cory had his own workbench and tools. All through Cub Scouts Mr R's shop was the place to be, especially around Pinewood Derby time! My childhood memories are full of projects with my dad, including making telescopes, radios, model rockets, go-carts and woodworking of all kinds. When dad is over to see us work in my shop I always chide him by saying "look what you started!"

                  More pics of Cory grinding a drill bit into our internal threading tool. Hope I am not boring people.

                  Rick



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Van Alston <boxorice@...>
                  To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 7:29 pm
                  Subject: Re: [sawsmith] Re: SawSmith Nut Project

                   
                  Rick, it sounds like you guys are having a blast. I've got a five
                  year old and we don't quite delve into such big projects. Mostly
                  birdhouses, Christmas ornaments and the like. But I know the fun of
                  working together with the little guy and I sure hope he has that same
                  enthusiasm when he gets to be your son's age.

                  Van
                • cslattery1883@sbcglobal.net
                  Thnks for the lathe information. It is an Enco 110-0818, 8 x18 lathe. It has a quick change gear box, there is a lever out front for the different thread
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 8, 2011
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                    Thnks for the lathe information. It is an Enco 110-0818, 8"x18" lathe.
                    It has a quick change gear box, there is a lever out front for the different thread pitches/screw feed speed. There is no lever to reverse the carriage direction. The lathe does have reverse the chuck will turn in reverse, to change chuck speeds I have to change the belt locations, but the screw feed is always right to left.

                    I am not a master machinist, so I appreciate you guys doing this. I have only used the lathe for drilling a hole in the end of a piece of material or just cleaning up something. I do not have a lot of tooling for this, just a drill chuck and a couple of cutting tools.

                    Thanks

                    Chris

                    --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, RedfieldRH@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Chris, we are making steady progress. You should see the look on Cory's face at each step of the way! He's hooked. We just finished grinding a custom internal threading tool from a 3/16 drill bit which will be cut to length and fit into the smallest boring bar I have to be able to pass inside the 5/8 bore we drilled. This nut is a very odd size at 21/32 ID which is probably one of the reasons they are hard to come by. We don't have a lot of room for the boring bar and bit. I will try to upload more pictures tomorrow.
                    >
                    > Regarding your lathe, you should be able to reverse the carriage direction of feed via a shifter on the gear train on the back of the headstock. This reverses the direction of the lead screw while keeping the spindle (chuck) rotation the same. Do you have a quick change box or do you have to manually change gears for different thread pitches? Send your model number and I can Google it to see if I can help with more features.
                    >
                    > If you thread from left to right, you produce a left hand thread, which is how we are doing this! So that is not the answer for you. Normal feed for basic turning and threading should usually be from right to left, although many cuts are done towards the tailstock to complete work such as forming shoulders, etc.
                    >
                    > In fact, many times one has to thread up to a shoulder and stop quickly to not crash into the metal! This is common, so the feed direction won't help you. This is part of the excitement of threading! One has to very quickly disengage the half nuts at the exact time. We always thread in back gear mode so the stock rotation is slow enough to make this humanly possible. Make sure you have back gears on your lathe, or at least use the slowest possible spindle speed. Some old timers would turn the threading bit upside down and could then thread right hand threads from left to right by running the spindle in reverse! Unfortunately, on my lathe this would unscrew the chuck!
                    >
                    > For the final phase, we will be cutting the internal left hand threads feeding blind from deep inside the chuck. This is where it all comes together for Cory as you have to rely on your training and know-how, and depend on the thread dial to pick up the thread blind on each pass. Should be fun!
                    >
                    > Rick
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: cslattery1883@... <cslattery1883@...>
                    > To: sawsmith@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 9:31 pm
                    > Subject: [sawsmith] Re: SawSmith Nut Project
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > That spindle looks pretty good. Which way does your lathe thread? I have a piece of garbage Enco lathe that only threads from right to left, so if you are not fast enough it will run into the chuck.
                    >
                    > Chris
                    >
                    > --- In sawsmith@yahoogroups.com, "rick.redfield" <RedfieldRH@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > To All:
                    > >
                    > > Nothing like a little spare time together. We spent two great days together in the Man Cave. Cory used his new machinist tools just delivered by Santa to good effect and we had some great days together. It is amazing to sit back and watch someone else going to town on the lathe!
                    > >
                    > > The Go-NoGo gauge was a great success. It was something to spin the original left hand nut onto the new threads.
                    > >
                    > > Now to start hacking off 4 inch chunks of hexagonal bar stock and try backwards internal threading. We will be picking up the thread on each cut blind from inside the chuck. The skills will be put to the test!
                    > >
                    > > Stay tuned. Hope everyone had a great Christmas, and managed to make great sawdust. A safe and happy New Year to everyone. Soon the day of the missing nut case will be solved.
                    > >
                    >
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