Re: [savetara.com] Re: Queries etc.
- Inscribed rock is about 1.5m on split surface and 1m high. Is stone age.
Split in antiquity by early christians to cap the souterain....but
carved surface did not show in interior of beehive dome.
Pattern consists of parts of nested circles, chevron pattern and pecking.
The henge is cut into earlier ditches ! (this is HUGELY
important).....these are prehistoric, possibly neolithic and may be
another ceide field system in the valley.
It shows that valley was a focus for stone age ritual thousands of years
before the henge.....Tara is not just the hill top, which we have said
- thanks Tadhg , Martin
this is exactly what is wanted
a description of what was found and a link to possible use
/signifigance and an idea of the people who made it/used it
...and why that is thought to be the case
...so as it is possible to relate to
both to picture the original users and to the process of Discovery
Martin - do you have this information for all the sites ...? can you
do this ....?
- sorry for asking - I know this is a tall order - especially as I
need it by Sunday at the absolute latest and really need it before
- but I DO think it is a resource that we all ought to have
please say ASAP if you can compile this ....?
but please try !
it would still be better to have an incomplete version than none at all
yes - thanks for that too
the point being then that what has been already found - important as
it is - represents only what has been found in an 80 metre wide sample
strip thorough the valley
and just gives hints and clues at what lies as yet undiscoverd
which hopefully will be one day in a less destructive way
ps /Martin - why do you say the souterrain was Christian ...? any
symbols etc ..? or any suggestions that it was used for worship - like
or do you just mean Christian in the time sense ...?
this could be important -
as one of the unique things about Tara is her pivotal connection with the
transition between Pagan and Christian
Ive no religious agendas here - I think they are irrelevant -
its that this is an important one of the various things that sets Tara
apart from other archaelogically interesting places
and of particular importance to some people
- and exactly BECAUSE she is at the interface of History and Legend
and extraordinarily rich in both
from so many different phases
that more than any other place - every single bit should be treasured
as they will provide clues to
how the two relate
-- though hopefully better written than I can 8-)
ps - very interesting about the field system under the henge
what is " ceide "...?
Sorry, just turned on the computer again. to find your e.
In answer to your questions
No I dont have succinct information for the other sites.
I say christian simply because souterains tend to belong to the early
christian period in Ireland
Ceide is a neolithic field system in Mayo of international significance.
Hope that helps some what .
(Sorry to intervene again! Thanks for the clarifications Martin, there seems to be some widespread misunderstanding about the date of souterrains. As you say they are generally medieval, from about 1,000 I think. Mark Clinton has a great book on them. As a non-archaeologist I'm slow to reply to these queries.Muireann)
- thanks Martin
...any more info about what a Ceide system consists of though ..? and
what makes it of international signifcance? I cant find anything on
and Muireann - why aplogise for putting in the information that we
need ? - thats great ! we need it !- I can hardly find anything online
about souterrains at all - so strange because there seem to be so many
anyway - re/ succinct information from other sites
Emily has sent me a transcript of the words to a powerpoint
presentatiom the Vigil put together
and scrappy as it is - it is still better than anything else I can
find and does give something of a feeling for the whole picture
And there is so much interesting material
Im still working on it - but could somebody take a look at it this
and say if anything is either wrong or obviously missing
Carmel ... in your next Lifetime you get to lie around and eat grapes
all day - truly !
- That's an excellent powerpoint - I had not seen or heard of that before.
I want to make one quick observation: Baronstown was not actually
declared a National Monument.
Pat Wallace said that it was of equal importance as Lismullin. That is
implying that it is a Nat.Mon. but the official declaration never happened.
When it was known by the NRA/authorities that the documents were being
released by Gormley - it was destroyed in the early morning.
- You could try the following link
my point is that they have a museum for a few neolithic fields in Mayo
that is of international importance (being neolithic and intact) and now
it seems we have the same at Tara only its under a motorway.
It makes the landscape even more important than previously thought and
as I said is older than the aul henge.
- Concealed beneath a five thousand year old bog near Ballycastle in
County Mayo is a remarkable pattern of walled fields and corrals which
indicate the existence of an ancient, ordered tribe who farmed this
area before the bog was formed.
It's one of the most amazing examples of Neolithic farming when people moved from a hunter gatherer society to a settled farming system of food production. It was perfectly preserved under bog land which formed over it over thousands of years. The field system that is so walls were built to mark out field boundaries. All that means that this was probably the first time that land was divided up into fields, signifying the development of property ownership/relations, the development of class society and the various economic and other relationships therein.
Today, field boundaries can be barbed wire fences, dry stone walls, hedgerows with or without ditches or old field or townland boundaries reused in multiple ways.
Get a book from you local bookshop on early Irish archaeology, Michael Ryan has a nice blue book bit dated now but still very relevant for the Céide Fields. There are more academic tomes such as Landscapes of the Neolithic etc. If you are in Dublin go to the National Museum of Ireland and pick up a book. They are no compensation for emails!
Hope it helps
- yes, - but is this documented ...? and if so - has it been publicised ....? and if not - why not ...?
please both of you - Paula - Martin
understand that I am not an Academic - an Archaeogist or part of any
Group and have no status in this world whatever
I am a freelance gardener and sell eggs in a market
and am not the person to be putting this out to the World
and I am simply trying to compile a basic overview of what was found
without including mysterious and undefined technical terms
because I need this to exist
to refer people to as a resource
http://www.tarataratara.net/Tara_Donagh.htm in progress
because I am trying to organise something in Belfast
in solidarity with Tara on the 8th which is next Tuesday
and this in itself is not bit easy and is involving all kinds of
writing letters - trying to make a banner -running around with posters
and I surely wont be ordering books for a while
though I have linked the site to the list of books and sites
in case anyone has the time
but the wiki one is very good
still not sure where the word" ceide" comes from
a brief bit about the souterrains would be welcome - there seem to be
so many of them - and so little information
but yes it IS interesting that there is this field system under the Henge
HAS this been public ..?
- It is very well documented, our emails and the number of links also indicate it.
It has also been explained that there are books available.
I cannot do the research for you, the basics are on the net and if you
wish to pursue your interest further then I would encourage you to do
I'm not in a position to do the research on the pre existing field systems at Lismullin, but perhaps email Mary Deevy at the NRA, or other academics who are specialists in the Neolithic. I think that would be rather interesting to get their responses. Try archaeology@... and FAO Professor Gabriel Cooney, a leading and eminent archaeologist in prehistoric settlement patterns.
UCD School of Archaeology's Research Groups, working with these Themes, support excellence in archaeological scholarship; carry out innovative
research programmes; provide policy analysis and expert advice in
relation to archaeological heritage and disseminate knowledge of
Ireland's archaeology to national and global audiences. http://www.ucd.ie/archaeology/
----- Original Message ----
From: marcellavee <anitagreg@...>
Sent: Sunday, 6 January, 2008 10:43:43 AM
Subject: [savetara.com] Re: Queries -.History/Legend - Info from the Vigil -