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Re: [sailing_canoes] Re: Rudder uphaul and downhaul

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  • Julian
    Brad,   I switched from wood to honeycomb aluminum panel.  I made a large rudder blade that weighed only 33 oz.  Now I can raise it or lower it just like
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Brad,
       
      I switched from wood to honeycomb aluminum panel.  I made a large rudder blade that weighed only 33 oz.  Now I can raise it or lower it just like a kayak rudder.  The pictuers are in the photo section under "A BSD Experience".  I am in the process of making a rudder V-block and the foot control.
       
      Julian

      --- On Sun, 8/31/08, Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@...> wrote:

      From: Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@...>
      Subject: [sailing_canoes] Re: Rudder uphaul and downhaul
      To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 4:55 PM






      Julian,

      My rudder is home made from 3/16" aluminum and sculpted delrin, but
      is much stronger and larger at (5 1/2 lbs) than a stock kayak
      paddling rudder.

      Brad

      --- In sailing_canoes@ yahoogroups. com, Julian <julianblo@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Brad:
      >  
      > I looked at your rudder and wonder if it was home made or available
      commercially.  It looks lighter than mine for sure.  Good to hear
      from someone who has thought through and tested it out.  I spent half
      day today thinking about the cleat solution.  Now you made it clear.
      >  
      > Julian
      >
      > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@ ...>
      > Subject: Re: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
      > To: sailing_canoes@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:18 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Julian,
      >  
      > My rudder lines are routed just like a feathercraft.
      >  
      > This is a simple way to apply pressure to keep your rudder down but
      allow it to ride up if you hit something.   Mount a cleat (camcleat
      is easiest) somewhere where you can alternately secure your uphaul
      and downhaul line.  A loop of hogringed 1/4 inch bungee tied in the
      middle of the downhaul line acts as a shock absorber when the rudder
      is down.  Add  color coded Rope Stoppers.  These will give you
      additional leverage.  Uncleat and switch the line to uphaul. 
      Pictures are in the photo section "Brad's Kayaks".
      >  
      > Brad
      >
      > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com> wrote:
      >
      > From: Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com>
      > Subject: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
      > To: sailing_canoes@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 11:03 AM
      >
      > I am looking for good ideas to set up the rudder control line to
      raise and lower the FeatherCraft rudder that has been enlarged in
      blade size.  The existing haul line going through the wheel with a
      knot at the base on the blade offers no leverage for pulling the
      rudder up.  Many designs in the photo section only show a line tied
      to the aft side of the blade for rasing the rudder.  How do you
      lower the rudder and keep the it down in the water?
      >  
      > Another challenge.  How do you keep the rudder in neutral position
      when not steering?
      >  
      > Julian
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Wesley Cox
      I m curious, Brad, how is the delrin attached to the aluminum? Bolted? ... From: Brad Thayer To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        I'm curious, Brad, how is the delrin attached to the aluminum? Bolted?


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Brad Thayer
        To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:55 PM
        Subject: [sailing_canoes] Re: Rudder uphaul and downhaul


        Julian,

        My rudder is home made from 3/16" aluminum and sculpted delrin, but
        is much stronger and larger at (5 1/2 lbs) than a stock kayak
        paddling rudder.

        Brad

        --- In sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com, Julian <julianblo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Brad:
        >
        > I looked at your rudder and wonder if it was home made or available
        commercially. It looks lighter than mine for sure. Good to hear
        from someone who has thought through and tested it out. I spent half
        day today thinking about the cleat solution. Now you made it clear.
        >
        > Julian
        >
        > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@...>
        > Subject: Re: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
        > To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:18 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Julian,
        >
        > My rudder lines are routed just like a feathercraft.
        >
        > This is a simple way to apply pressure to keep your rudder down but
        allow it to ride up if you hit something. Mount a cleat (camcleat
        is easiest) somewhere where you can alternately secure your uphaul
        and downhaul line. A loop of hogringed 1/4 inch bungee tied in the
        middle of the downhaul line acts as a shock absorber when the rudder
        is down. Add color coded Rope Stoppers. These will give you
        additional leverage. Uncleat and switch the line to uphaul.
        Pictures are in the photo section "Brad's Kayaks".
        >
        > Brad
        >
        > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com> wrote:
        >
        > From: Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com>
        > Subject: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
        > To: sailing_canoes@ yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 11:03 AM
        >
        > I am looking for good ideas to set up the rudder control line to
        raise and lower the FeatherCraft rudder that has been enlarged in
        blade size. The existing haul line going through the wheel with a
        knot at the base on the blade offers no leverage for pulling the
        rudder up. Many designs in the photo section only show a line tied
        to the aft side of the blade for rasing the rudder. How do you
        lower the rudder and keep the it down in the water?
        >
        > Another challenge. How do you keep the rudder in neutral position
        when not steering?
        >
        > Julian
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >






        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
        Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release Date: 9/1/2008 7:19 AM


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brad Thayer
        Wesley, I m not sure which part of the rudder assembly you re asking about, but I think your referring to the delrin discs. I turned these on my lathe. 2
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Wesley,

          I'm not sure which part of the rudder assembly you're asking about,
          but I think your referring to the delrin discs. I turned these on my
          lathe. 2 different diameter discs on each side of the blade act as
          line guides and these are sandwiched between the aluminum cheeks
          (angle). A single stainless bolt passes thru acting as the pivot.

          Brad


          --- In sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com, "Wesley Cox" <inspirfe@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I'm curious, Brad, how is the delrin attached to the aluminum?
          Bolted?
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Brad Thayer
          > To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:55 PM
          > Subject: [sailing_canoes] Re: Rudder uphaul and downhaul
          >
          >
          > Julian,
          >
          > My rudder is home made from 3/16" aluminum and sculpted delrin,
          but
          > is much stronger and larger at (5 1/2 lbs) than a stock kayak
          > paddling rudder.
          >
          > Brad
          >
          > --- In sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com, Julian <julianblo@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Brad:
          > >
          > > I looked at your rudder and wonder if it was home made or
          available
          > commercially. It looks lighter than mine for sure. Good to hear
          > from someone who has thought through and tested it out. I spent
          half
          > day today thinking about the cleat solution. Now you made it
          clear.
          > >
          > > Julian
          > >
          > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@> wrote:
          > >
          > > From: Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@>
          > > Subject: Re: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
          > > To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:18 PM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Julian,
          > >
          > > My rudder lines are routed just like a feathercraft.
          > >
          > > This is a simple way to apply pressure to keep your rudder down
          but
          > allow it to ride up if you hit something. Mount a cleat
          (camcleat
          > is easiest) somewhere where you can alternately secure your
          uphaul
          > and downhaul line. A loop of hogringed 1/4 inch bungee tied in
          the
          > middle of the downhaul line acts as a shock absorber when the
          rudder
          > is down. Add color coded Rope Stoppers. These will give you
          > additional leverage. Uncleat and switch the line to uphaul.
          > Pictures are in the photo section "Brad's Kayaks".
          > >
          > > Brad
          > >
          > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com> wrote:
          > >
          > > From: Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com>
          > > Subject: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
          > > To: sailing_canoes@ yahoogroups. com
          > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 11:03 AM
          > >
          > > I am looking for good ideas to set up the rudder control line
          to
          > raise and lower the FeatherCraft rudder that has been enlarged in
          > blade size. The existing haul line going through the wheel with
          a
          > knot at the base on the blade offers no leverage for pulling the
          > rudder up. Many designs in the photo section only show a line
          tied
          > to the aft side of the blade for rasing the rudder. How do you
          > lower the rudder and keep the it down in the water?
          > >
          > > Another challenge. How do you keep the rudder in neutral
          position
          > when not steering?
          > >
          > > Julian
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----------
          >
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
          > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release Date:
          9/1/2008 7:19 AM
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Swiftwood@aol.com
          That s cruising! Brian Cunningham Swiftwood - my schooner rigged trimaran sailing kayak http://members.aol.com/swiftwood/ ... From: Brad Thayer
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            That's cruising!

            Brian Cunningham
            Swiftwood - my schooner rigged trimaran sailing kayak
            http://members.aol.com/swiftwood/



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@...>
            To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 5:58 pm
            Subject: [sailing_canoes] Re: Rudder uphaul and downhaul






            Ed,

            My particular rudder is a flat aluminum blade, but flat blade or
            foiled should have some downhaul tension as they can ride up as speed
            and loading increases. The "Three Amigos" has hit 13.9 MPH to date
            and a broach could cause some serious equipment damage.

            Brad

            --- In sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Maurer" <editor@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Unless I'm missing something [from not having read all the posts] a
            metal
            > blade should only need an uphaul, right? Or is the subject blade
            composite?
            >
            > On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Brad Thayer
            <bradleethayer@...>wrote:
            >
            > > Julian,
            > >
            > > My rudder is home made from 3/16" aluminum and sculpted delrin,
            but
            > > is much stronger and larger at (5 1/2 lbs) than a stock kayak
            > > paddling rudder.
            > >
            > > Brad
            > >
            > > --- In sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com <sailing_canoes%
            40yahoogroups.com>,
            > > Julian <julianblo@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Brad:
            > > >
            > > > I looked at your rudder and wonder if it was home made or
            available
            > > commercially. It looks lighter than mine for sure. Good to hear
            > > from someone who has thought through and tested it out. I spent
            half
            > > day today thinking about the cleat solution. Now you made it
            clear.
            > > >
            > > > Julian
            > > >
            > > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > From: Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@>
            > > > Subject: Re: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
            > > > To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com <sailing_canoes%
            40yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:18 PM
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Julian,
            > > >
            > > > My rudder lines are routed just like a feathercraft.
            > > >
            > > > This is a simple way to apply pressure to keep your rudder down
            but
            > > allow it to ride up if you hit something. Mount a cleat
            (camcleat
            > > is easiest) somewhere where you can alternately secure your uphaul
            > > and downhaul line. A loop of hogringed 1/4 inch bungee tied in
            the
            > > middle of the downhaul line acts as a shock absorber when the
            rudder
            > > is down. Add color coded Rope Stoppers. These will give you
            > > additional leverage. Uncleat and switch the line to uphaul.
            > > Pictures are in the photo section "Brad's Kayaks".
            > > >
            > > > Brad
            > > >
            > > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > From: Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com>
            > > > Subject: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
            > > > To: sailing_canoes@ yahoogroups. com
            > > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 11:03 AM
            > > >
            > > > I am looking for good ideas to set up the rudder control line to
            > > raise and lower the FeatherCraft rudder that has been enlarged in
            > > blade size. The existing haul line going through the wheel with a
            > > knot at the base on the blade offers no leverage for pulling the
            > > rudder up. Many designs in the photo section only show a line
            tied
            > > to the aft side of the blade for rasing the rudder. How do you
            > > lower the rudder and keep the it down in the water?
            > > >
            > > > Another challenge. How do you keep the rudder in neutral
            position
            > > when not steering?
            > > >
            > > > Julian
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Edward C. Maurer
            > Publisher
            > Canoe Sailing Magazine
            > http://canoesailingmagazine.com
            > http://canoesailingmagazine.com/index.php/RUDDER-FORUM/
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Wesley Cox
            Thanks, Brad, I follow now. ... From: Brad Thayer To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: [sailing_canoes] Re:
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks, Brad, I follow now.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Brad Thayer
              To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:12 PM
              Subject: [sailing_canoes] Re: Rudder uphaul and downhaul


              Wesley,

              I'm not sure which part of the rudder assembly you're asking about,
              but I think your referring to the delrin discs. I turned these on my
              lathe. 2 different diameter discs on each side of the blade act as
              line guides and these are sandwiched between the aluminum cheeks
              (angle). A single stainless bolt passes thru acting as the pivot.

              Brad

              --- In sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com, "Wesley Cox" <inspirfe@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I'm curious, Brad, how is the delrin attached to the aluminum?
              Bolted?
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Brad Thayer
              > To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:55 PM
              > Subject: [sailing_canoes] Re: Rudder uphaul and downhaul
              >
              >
              > Julian,
              >
              > My rudder is home made from 3/16" aluminum and sculpted delrin,
              but
              > is much stronger and larger at (5 1/2 lbs) than a stock kayak
              > paddling rudder.
              >
              > Brad
              >
              > --- In sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com, Julian <julianblo@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Brad:
              > >
              > > I looked at your rudder and wonder if it was home made or
              available
              > commercially. It looks lighter than mine for sure. Good to hear
              > from someone who has thought through and tested it out. I spent
              half
              > day today thinking about the cleat solution. Now you made it
              clear.
              > >
              > > Julian
              > >
              > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@> wrote:
              > >
              > > From: Brad Thayer <bradleethayer@>
              > > Subject: Re: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
              > > To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:18 PM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Julian,
              > >
              > > My rudder lines are routed just like a feathercraft.
              > >
              > > This is a simple way to apply pressure to keep your rudder down
              but
              > allow it to ride up if you hit something. Mount a cleat
              (camcleat
              > is easiest) somewhere where you can alternately secure your
              uphaul
              > and downhaul line. A loop of hogringed 1/4 inch bungee tied in
              the
              > middle of the downhaul line acts as a shock absorber when the
              rudder
              > is down. Add color coded Rope Stoppers. These will give you
              > additional leverage. Uncleat and switch the line to uphaul.
              > Pictures are in the photo section "Brad's Kayaks".
              > >
              > > Brad
              > >
              > > --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com> wrote:
              > >
              > > From: Julian <julianblo@yahoo. com>
              > > Subject: [sailing_canoes] Rudder uphaul and downhaul
              > > To: sailing_canoes@ yahoogroups. com
              > > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 11:03 AM
              > >
              > > I am looking for good ideas to set up the rudder control line
              to
              > raise and lower the FeatherCraft rudder that has been enlarged in
              > blade size. The existing haul line going through the wheel with
              a
              > knot at the base on the blade offers no leverage for pulling the
              > rudder up. Many designs in the photo section only show a line
              tied
              > to the aft side of the blade for rasing the rudder. How do you
              > lower the rudder and keep the it down in the water?
              > >
              > > Another challenge. How do you keep the rudder in neutral
              position
              > when not steering?
              > >
              > > Julian
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------
              ----------
              >
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
              > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release Date:
              9/1/2008 7:19 AM
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
              Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1646 - Release Date: 9/1/2008 6:03 PM


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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