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Re: Great Pyramid

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  • Chris
    ... Okay, but were you aware that John Taylor devised a system very similar to the one you just described? In the absence of really accurate measurements for
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 18, 2003
      >
      > Explain it again? I never explained it the first time. Let me tell
      > you where it comes from. I found it in a little book written by the
      > founder of the Rosicrucian Order AMORC, whose world headquarters are
      > located at Rosicrucian Park, San Jose, California. They have a square
      > block of San Jose on which there are many Egyptian-style buildings
      > including the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum and Planetarium. I was the
      > manager of the planetarium for a couple of years. The name of the
      > founder is H. Spencer Lewis.
      >
      > Lewis was a wealthy advertising man who studied Rosicrucianism in
      > Europe before building the Park. Where he got the information from I
      > don't recall or he didn't say but it may be presumed that it is part
      > of the esoteric tradition of the Rosicrucians, who date the founding
      > of the Order to the XVIIIth Dynasty of Egypt and the mystery schools
      > which were started at that time. This is the period of the famous
      > heretic Pharoah, Akhenaten, and his successor, Tutankhamen.
      >
      > The ancients metaphorized everything. The Great Pyramid was never any
      > king's tomb -- it was the prime temple of the Sun God. The sky
      > operated as a Cosmic Clock and the Great Pyramid helped keep track of
      > the celestial cycles because it was also an observatory and timepiece
      > (using shadows and reflections of the Sun from the highly polished
      > faces and the gleaming, gold-sheathed, capstone). Therefore, to
      > incorporate time into the structure as units of length, the
      > cubit-per-day measurement of the base length served the purpose. As
      > the earth turns, a certain distance along the equator passes across
      > the meridian line every minute, hour, etc. with the entire
      > circumference length of about 26,000 miles every day. They were
      > symbolizing the earth in the pyramid.
      >
      > I liked the organic logic of ancient sacred ideas so I decided to give
      > Lewis's system a try. Many other estimates or measurements have been
      > made for the base length of the GP (given that it can't be directly
      > measured very well due to the delapidated condition) and I wanted to
      > see how his figure compared. He also gave the clue about dividing the
      > polar radius of the earth by ten to the seventh power to get the
      > length of the pyramid cubit. [I call it the pyramid cubit exclusively
      > to ensure that no other type of cubit is confused with it.]
      >
      > Then, having got a precise figure for the base length (365.24 x 25.025
      > inches), I used the one and only surviving direct measurement of the
      > GP which exists and can be taken on the monument itself. There are a
      > few casing blocks left at the base whose slope angle can be directly
      > and accurately measured. This is an angle of about 52 degrees. I
      > don't have the exact figure handy. From that angle and the length of
      > the base of one side all other dimensions can be calculated.
      >
      > If I were doing it again now, I would derive the height not from this
      > slope angle but from the pi formula of squaring the circle. But they
      > both would give the same height anyway, to within a few inches.
      >
      > Finally, having calculated all of the angles and length dimensions and
      > area dimensions of every part and facet of the GP, I then went into
      > the length and other ratios looking for pi and phi. Over and over
      > again, they calculated the same figures to the fifth decimal place, if
      > I remember correctly, giving an accuracy compared to modern values
      > within hundredths or thousandths of 1%. To me that was proof that the
      > pyramid did, indeed, enshrine both pi and phi in its structure if one
      > could get the right set of original dimensions by some system.
      >
      > The system works, however unlikely its origins may seem.

      Okay, but were you aware that John Taylor devised a system very similar to
      the one you just described? In the absence of really accurate measurements
      for the pyramid (which was taking him up blind alleys), Taylor pursued the
      idea that the Pyramid had been intended to indicate a polar axis for the
      earth of 500,000,000 Pyramid inches, and that the Egyptians had measured the
      base of the Pyramid in units to fit a solar year of 365.2322 days.

      I knew what you wrote had sounded familiar so I went back to Tompkins book
      and dug that up. Just thought you might be interested...

      >> This I do not follow. What is e?
      >
      > You'll have to look it up. E is a constant which is the base of the
      > natural logarithms. It's an important subject in mathematics and in
      > nature because e turns up in electrical theory and physics quite a
      > bit. Have you ever seen log graph paper? That's based on e. You'll
      > have to do the homework on this one, but its value is 2.7 something
      > (another irrational number like pi and phi).

      Okay, I'll look into this. Thanks for the heads up.
      >>>
      >>> Now, the stadium, the Greek unit of length, was defined as the
      > length of the
      >>> apothem, A, of one face of the Great Pyramid. This is the
      > distance from the
      >>> center of one side of the base to the tip of the capstone (when
      > there was
      >>> one). The apothem divides a face of the GP into two triangles
      > which are
      >>> "golden triangles" incorporating the value of phi in their length
      > ratios.
      >>> I'd have to look it up, but I think the stadium or apothem
      > distance was
      >>> about 660 feet. It may also have been used as a unit of length for
      >>> measuring distances along the earth's surface.
      >>
      >
      >> When you say the stadium was defined as the apothem, this implies
      > that the
      >> Greek unit came after the pyramid was built.
      >
      > Of course, it did.
      >
      > Otherwise, how could it be
      >> defined on that basis? But this denies the fact that the Egyptians
      > could
      >> have had a similar standard in use and it was this unit that formed the
      >> length of the apothem. In which case, the Greek stadion was only
      > modeled
      >> after this earlier Egyptian unit.
      >
      > Buh..... You've got it backwards.

      This I do not follow. Are you sure you got my point? I was saying that the
      Egyptians had a standard that may have led to the Greeks adopting the same
      standard. I didn't saying anything about time prior to the Egyptians but I
      guess you are saying the Egyptians got the same measure from the pyramid
      builders.

      I had know idea you gave the pyramid such a long historical estimate. May I
      ask why it is that you do not think the pyramid could have arisen c. 2500
      B.C.?


      >The Great Pyramid is much more
      > ancient than we can even know. And as the prime temple of the Sun God
      > (and the Craftsman God, Saturn -- see The Mill of Time) things came
      > from it and not the other way around: especially MEASURES! Lengths,
      > areas, weights, and time intervals. These all had to be standardized,
      > just as today, for the proper regulation of society and commerce.
      >
      > The Greek civilization/empire followed the Egyptian. Much of Greek
      > higher learning came from Egypt and its mystery schools. Many Greek
      > scholars went to Egypt to study these things including Plato and many
      > others. We give credit to a Greek named Hipparchus for "discovering"
      > precession only because his writing on the subject is the oldest yet
      > found. This is the problem with scientific "evidence". They will go
      > with a trivial accident and claim something for which there is no
      > logical true evidence. The idea that precession was unknown in
      > ancient Sumeria, Babylon, Egypt, China and any number of other older
      > empires and cultures than the classical Greek is laughable but our
      > science considers it a done deal that Hipparchus did it and the
      > textbook writers are too lazy and intellectually dishonest to change
      > it or even to be less dogmatic about it. It's a scandal. I've
      > obviously lost a lot of the respect that I once had for scientists
      > because of nonsense like this!
      >
      >>>
      >>> The original is still the greatest.
      >>
      >> Do you mean the Great Pyramid? Or the stadion or furlong as opposed
      > to the
      >> metric kilometer? Sorry, I don't follow this last point.
      >>
      >
      > I meant the original KFC as opposed to "extra crispy". Sorry, it's
      > getting late and I'm tired.
      >
      > No, the Great Pyramid. This is a line from a song by the Mamas and
      > the Papas called the "In Crowd". Maybe it's before your time.
      >
      > I believe the Great Pyramid was the first of its kind and the others
      > were knock offs, as it were -- immitations. No king would ever have
      > dared to have himself buried in the prime temple of God. It was too
      > important a place. The idea that Cheops (Khufu) built it for his tomb
      > because there is grafiti in an obscure part of it bearing his name is
      > another one of those garishly stupid bits of "evidence" that
      > archaeologists like to trot out to avoid looking as dumb and
      > uninformed as they really are.
      >
      > It was OK to be buried in a smaller copy of the GP, to borrow some of
      > the glory of the Sun god in that way, but not in the GP itself. That
      > would have been the ultimate disrespect and sacrilege. And that is
      > why the Original was and still is the Greatest!
      >
      > That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

      I see what you mean now. It outranks all the others that have tried to
      compete with it. You are saying the first is the last, in this respect.

      >
      > Terry
      >

      Interesting reading. I personally like the idea of an ancient bureau of
      measures. I am just unsure about what you base this opinion on. If you
      care to explain, I care to listen. If not, catch you on the apothem of the
      pyramid. : )

      Peace,

      -Chris
    • ter2223
      ... similar to ... measurements ... pursued the ... measured the ... Tompkins book ... I can t say that I do recall Taylor s system and before accepting that
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 28, 2003
        --- In sacredlandscapelist@yahoogroups.com, Chris <groups@g...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Explain it again? I never explained it the first time. Let me tell
        > > you where it comes from. I found it in a little book written by the
        > > founder of the Rosicrucian Order AMORC, whose world headquarters are
        > > located at Rosicrucian Park, San Jose, California. They have a square
        > > block of San Jose on which there are many Egyptian-style buildings
        > > including the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum and Planetarium. I was the
        > > manager of the planetarium for a couple of years. The name of the
        > > founder is H. Spencer Lewis.
        > >
        > > Lewis was a wealthy advertising man who studied Rosicrucianism in
        > > Europe before building the Park. Where he got the information from I
        > > don't recall or he didn't say but it may be presumed that it is part
        > > of the esoteric tradition of the Rosicrucians, who date the founding
        > > of the Order to the XVIIIth Dynasty of Egypt and the mystery schools
        > > which were started at that time. This is the period of the famous
        > > heretic Pharoah, Akhenaten, and his successor, Tutankhamen.
        > >
        > > The ancients metaphorized everything. The Great Pyramid was never any
        > > king's tomb -- it was the prime temple of the Sun God. The sky
        > > operated as a Cosmic Clock and the Great Pyramid helped keep track of
        > > the celestial cycles because it was also an observatory and timepiece
        > > (using shadows and reflections of the Sun from the highly polished
        > > faces and the gleaming, gold-sheathed, capstone). Therefore, to
        > > incorporate time into the structure as units of length, the
        > > cubit-per-day measurement of the base length served the purpose. As
        > > the earth turns, a certain distance along the equator passes across
        > > the meridian line every minute, hour, etc. with the entire
        > > circumference length of about 26,000 miles every day. They were
        > > symbolizing the earth in the pyramid.
        > >
        > > I liked the organic logic of ancient sacred ideas so I decided to give
        > > Lewis's system a try. Many other estimates or measurements have been
        > > made for the base length of the GP (given that it can't be directly
        > > measured very well due to the delapidated condition) and I wanted to
        > > see how his figure compared. He also gave the clue about dividing the
        > > polar radius of the earth by ten to the seventh power to get the
        > > length of the pyramid cubit. [I call it the pyramid cubit exclusively
        > > to ensure that no other type of cubit is confused with it.]
        > >
        > > Then, having got a precise figure for the base length (365.24 x 25.025
        > > inches), I used the one and only surviving direct measurement of the
        > > GP which exists and can be taken on the monument itself. There are a
        > > few casing blocks left at the base whose slope angle can be directly
        > > and accurately measured. This is an angle of about 52 degrees. I
        > > don't have the exact figure handy. From that angle and the length of
        > > the base of one side all other dimensions can be calculated.
        > >
        > > If I were doing it again now, I would derive the height not from this
        > > slope angle but from the pi formula of squaring the circle. But they
        > > both would give the same height anyway, to within a few inches.
        > >
        > > Finally, having calculated all of the angles and length dimensions and
        > > area dimensions of every part and facet of the GP, I then went into
        > > the length and other ratios looking for pi and phi. Over and over
        > > again, they calculated the same figures to the fifth decimal place, if
        > > I remember correctly, giving an accuracy compared to modern values
        > > within hundredths or thousandths of 1%. To me that was proof that the
        > > pyramid did, indeed, enshrine both pi and phi in its structure if one
        > > could get the right set of original dimensions by some system.
        > >
        > > The system works, however unlikely its origins may seem.
        >
        > Okay, but were you aware that John Taylor devised a system very
        similar to
        > the one you just described? In the absence of really accurate
        measurements
        > for the pyramid (which was taking him up blind alleys), Taylor
        pursued the
        > idea that the Pyramid had been intended to indicate a polar axis for the
        > earth of 500,000,000 Pyramid inches, and that the Egyptians had
        measured the
        > base of the Pyramid in units to fit a solar year of 365.2322 days.
        >
        > I knew what you wrote had sounded familiar so I went back to
        Tompkins book
        > and dug that up. Just thought you might be interested...
        >

        I can't say that I do recall Taylor's system and before accepting that
        it is equivalent I would need to see if his figure of 500 million
        pyramid inches for the polar radius of the earth is accurate. Have
        you checked this out? Since there are 25 pyr inches to one pyr cubit,
        the polar radius would have to be 20 million pyr cubits. You say he
        used a unit for measuring the base of the GP which gave its length as
        365.2322 such units without stating that the unit was the pyr cubit.
        I wonder where he got the idea for deriving the polar radius in this
        way given that the ancient Egyptians weren't supposed to know that the
        earth was spherical.



        > >> This I do not follow. What is e?
        > >
        > > You'll have to look it up. E is a constant which is the base of the
        > > natural logarithms. It's an important subject in mathematics and in
        > > nature because e turns up in electrical theory and physics quite a
        > > bit. Have you ever seen log graph paper? That's based on e. You'll
        > > have to do the homework on this one, but its value is 2.7 something
        > > (another irrational number like pi and phi).
        >
        > Okay, I'll look into this. Thanks for the heads up.
        > >>>
        > >>> Now, the stadium, the Greek unit of length, was defined as the
        > > length of the
        > >>> apothem, A, of one face of the Great Pyramid. This is the
        > > distance from the
        > >>> center of one side of the base to the tip of the capstone (when
        > > there was
        > >>> one). The apothem divides a face of the GP into two triangles
        > > which are
        > >>> "golden triangles" incorporating the value of phi in their length
        > > ratios.
        > >>> I'd have to look it up, but I think the stadium or apothem
        > > distance was
        > >>> about 660 feet. It may also have been used as a unit of length for
        > >>> measuring distances along the earth's surface.
        > >>
        > >
        > >> When you say the stadium was defined as the apothem, this implies
        > > that the
        > >> Greek unit came after the pyramid was built.
        > >
        > > Of course, it did.
        > >
        > > Otherwise, how could it be
        > >> defined on that basis? But this denies the fact that the Egyptians
        > > could
        > >> have had a similar standard in use and it was this unit that
        formed the
        > >> length of the apothem. In which case, the Greek stadion was only
        > > modeled
        > >> after this earlier Egyptian unit.
        > >
        > > Buh..... You've got it backwards.
        >
        > This I do not follow. Are you sure you got my point? I was saying
        that the
        > Egyptians had a standard that may have led to the Greeks adopting
        the same
        > standard. I didn't saying anything about time prior to the
        Egyptians but I
        > guess you are saying the Egyptians got the same measure from the pyramid
        > builders.
        >

        I'm saying that the Great Pyramid was so dominant a creation and so
        marvelous a structure that it's dimensions would naturally be used for
        other purposes, like land distance measurements. It was used, as
        Tompkins suggests, for surveying the surrounding lands (in conjunction
        with the other nearby pyramids too). The Greeks came along later and
        sure the Egyptians used the stadium under their own name and for their
        own purposes. The Greeks just borrowed an older unit.






        > I had know idea you gave the pyramid such a long historical
        estimate. May I
        > ask why it is that you do not think the pyramid could have arisen c.
        2500
        > B.C.?
        >

        I guess I just don't think the early-dynastic Egyptians had the skill
        to build it. I lean to the Atlantis theory of survivors migrating to
        Egypt and bringing their knowledge with them. Can't prove it, of
        course, so it's just a hunch, a feeling. Did you ever hear of the
        theory that the original purpose of the structure was as an energy
        accumulator, amplifier and transmitter? The author whose name eludes
        me right now suggests it was a technical device for beaming coherent
        microwave energy: a maser.

        Over so long a period of time, the building could have been occupied
        and used in various ways by various succeeding peoples. It lent
        itself to many uses.

        >
        > >The Great Pyramid is much more
        > > ancient than we can even know. And as the prime temple of the Sun God
        > > (and the Craftsman God, Saturn -- see The Mill of Time) things came
        > > from it and not the other way around: especially MEASURES! Lengths,
        > > areas, weights, and time intervals. These all had to be standardized,
        > > just as today, for the proper regulation of society and commerce.
        > >
        > > The Greek civilization/empire followed the Egyptian. Much of Greek
        > > higher learning came from Egypt and its mystery schools. Many Greek
        > > scholars went to Egypt to study these things including Plato and many
        > > others. We give credit to a Greek named Hipparchus for "discovering"
        > > precession only because his writing on the subject is the oldest yet
        > > found. This is the problem with scientific "evidence". They will go
        > > with a trivial accident and claim something for which there is no
        > > logical true evidence. The idea that precession was unknown in
        > > ancient Sumeria, Babylon, Egypt, China and any number of other older
        > > empires and cultures than the classical Greek is laughable but our
        > > science considers it a done deal that Hipparchus did it and the
        > > textbook writers are too lazy and intellectually dishonest to change
        > > it or even to be less dogmatic about it. It's a scandal. I've
        > > obviously lost a lot of the respect that I once had for scientists
        > > because of nonsense like this!
        > >
        > >>>
        > >>> The original is still the greatest.
        > >>
        > >> Do you mean the Great Pyramid? Or the stadion or furlong as opposed
        > > to the
        > >> metric kilometer? Sorry, I don't follow this last point.
        > >>
        > >
        > > I meant the original KFC as opposed to "extra crispy". Sorry, it's
        > > getting late and I'm tired.
        > >
        > > No, the Great Pyramid. This is a line from a song by the Mamas and
        > > the Papas called the "In Crowd". Maybe it's before your time.
        > >
        > > I believe the Great Pyramid was the first of its kind and the others
        > > were knock offs, as it were -- immitations. No king would ever have
        > > dared to have himself buried in the prime temple of God. It was too
        > > important a place. The idea that Cheops (Khufu) built it for his tomb
        > > because there is grafiti in an obscure part of it bearing his name is
        > > another one of those garishly stupid bits of "evidence" that
        > > archaeologists like to trot out to avoid looking as dumb and
        > > uninformed as they really are.
        > >
        > > It was OK to be buried in a smaller copy of the GP, to borrow some of
        > > the glory of the Sun god in that way, but not in the GP itself. That
        > > would have been the ultimate disrespect and sacrilege. And that is
        > > why the Original was and still is the Greatest!
        > >
        > > That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
        >
        > I see what you mean now. It outranks all the others that have tried to
        > compete with it. You are saying the first is the last, in this respect.
        >
        > >
        > > Terry
        > >
        >
        > Interesting reading. I personally like the idea of an ancient bureau of
        > measures. I am just unsure about what you base this opinion on. If you
        > care to explain, I care to listen. If not, catch you on the apothem
        of the
        > pyramid. : )
        >

        I base it on the system I have described which was dedicated to
        preserving and enshrining sacred mathematical numbers, earth
        dimensions, time periods, etc. etc. etc. as I have already outlined
        coupled with the FUNCTIONAL LOGIC that it would have been preeminently
        suitable for the purpose. There is even an alleged "Cubit Niche" in
        the GP which is said to be exactly one pyr cubit wide. How else would
        you preserve and enshrine standard measures of length in the days
        before platinum-irridium bars? (Which even we don't use any more.) I
        suppose they could have used gold bars.

        And don't forget the GP was not just an empty building. The tomb
        theory misguides everybody and is hard to shake off. It was a place
        where many people, the high priests of all learning, gathered. It was
        their temple and university "Great Hall" too. The place was used for
        many purposes, including initiations into the priesthood (excuse me,
        graduation ceremonies).

        It would help to understand the mythology of Saturn, the Craftsman
        God, as the giver of the measures of creation. The GP is part of the
        system of ancient mythological ideas on time-reckoning and
        measurement which I wrote about in the Mill of Time. I must refer you
        to that article again.

        Hope this clarifies....

        All the best,

        Terry


        > Peace,
        >
        > -Chris
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