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[sacredlandscapelist] Re: Gematria Mysteries of Jesus Christ

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  • Dan Washburn
    Mike -- Thanks hugely for the referal url to dan gleason s web site on the gematria mysteries of Jesus Christ. I ve looked at the 1st chapter and am in
    Message 1 of 18 , May 1, 1999
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      Mike --

      Thanks hugely for the referal url to dan gleason's web site on the gematria
      mysteries of Jesus Christ. I've looked at the 1st chapter and am in process of
      downloading the book, but from what I've seen so far it may well be another
      major piece in recovering the hidden wisdom in early christianity.

      One thing that bothers me about michell, fideler, and now gleason is the lack
      of spiritual content, of a real connection with the mystical heart of Jesus'
      teachings and the inner radiance of the saints, the transformation into glory
      as St. Paul calls it. We should be finding a treasure map in these mysteries,
      not intellectual games for jewish/gentile geometers.

      I ran across a reference to gematria in the building of King's College Chapel
      (not really a chapel, since it is longer than Oxford Cathedral). Nigel Pennick
      says in The Ancient Science of Geomancy that it has 26 stained glass windows,
      26 structural uprights, 26 ribs in each pair of fans in the vaulting, etc. 26
      is the gematria number of the tetragrammaton IHVH and IHVH is carved over the
      west door. Further the ground plan proportions are laid out via ad triangulum,
      as can be seen in Reginald Ely's drawing for the chapel. (He has a book called
      The Mysteries of Kings College Chapel which I have not seen.)

      I've heard that there is gematria connected with Chartre Cathedral as well, but
      have never seen an exposition on it. With two examples, the question is raised
      as to whether gematria formed a hidden part of the science of cathedral
      building.

      Pennick's book contains a number of references to the history of ad quadratum
      and ad triangulum which I think you would be interested in plus references to
      early german and spanish writers on the secrets of cathedral construction.

      By the way he has a great chapter on the omphalos (he agrees with my theory!).
      Sorry I haven't had a chance to post on the netting on the omphalos, everyday
      life has been pretty overwhelming the last few weeks, but I will get to it
      soon.

      Dan W.





      .

      Mike Bispham wrote:

      > I was invited by Daniel Gleason to visit his site at
      > http://www.jesus8880.com/homepage.htm, which details his book 'The Gematria
      > Mysteries of Jesus Christ'. This might be of interest to a number of
      > listmembers, and I'd be interested to know how you folks who know about
      > this stuff rate his research.
      >
      > Mike
      >
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    • Dan Washburn
      So far I have looked at the first 5 chapters of Dan Gleason s Gematria Mysteries of Jesus Christ, not with any great depth, since everyday life still has me by
      Message 2 of 18 , May 12, 1999
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        So far I have looked at the first 5 chapters of Dan Gleason's Gematria Mysteries of
        Jesus Christ, not with any great depth, since everyday life still has me by the
        throat. Chapters 1, 2, and 3 are very interesting and reveal new, probably true,
        information. Chapter 4 on the Parable of the Sower I found hard to follow, with
        very swampy diagrams. Chapter 5 is a variation on Dave Fideler's geometry of the
        feeding of the 5,000.

        So bravo to Dan Gleason, he has obviously done a lot of hard work and uncovered
        exciting new material. I am not at all sure that it is the entrance to the holy of
        holies of early Christian Gematria mysteries, however, though I have only read the
        first 5 chapters in a semi-skimming mode.

        One problem is the margin of error that he allows. I always understood that the
        colel rule says that you can be one unit off and still mark it down as a match.
        Hence 'great joy' which appears in both the Matt and Luke infancy narratives equals
        889, one unit from the 888 of Jesus, but it is still a valid match in my book. Dan
        G. argues (p 35) that when you are comparing gematria that runs into the thousands
        with the numbers on geometrical constructions, a larger margin of error is logical
        -- variations of 1 to 2 percent are invisible to the naked eye on a draughtsman's
        graph and hence should be allowed to count as matches. He therefore equates
        numbers such as the gematria value 8467 and the graph value 8479.7752 (99.85%).
        Unfortunately he tells you in the text that the two are identical, equal to 8467,
        it is only in an appendix that the variation is listed. So one has to read the
        book with care or a false impression of exact matching is created.

        Dan W.

        P.S. -- Where is everybody? Is everyone's life as screwed up as mine right now? Or
        is it just the Spring?

        Dan Washburn wrote:

        > Mike --
        >
        > Thanks hugely for the referal url to dan gleason's web site on the gematria
        > mysteries of Jesus Christ. I've looked at the 1st chapter and am in process of
        > downloading the book, but from what I've seen so far it may well be another
        > major piece in recovering the hidden wisdom in early christianity.
        >
        > One thing that bothers me about michell, fideler, and now gleason is the lack
        > of spiritual content, of a real connection with the mystical heart of Jesus'
        > teachings and the inner radiance of the saints, the transformation into glory
        > as St. Paul calls it. We should be finding a treasure map in these mysteries,
        > not intellectual games for jewish/gentile geometers.
        >
        > I ran across a reference to gematria in the building of King's College Chapel
        > (not really a chapel, since it is longer than Oxford Cathedral). Nigel Pennick
        > says in The Ancient Science of Geomancy that it has 26 stained glass windows,
        > 26 structural uprights, 26 ribs in each pair of fans in the vaulting, etc. 26
        > is the gematria number of the tetragrammaton IHVH and IHVH is carved over the
        > west door. Further the ground plan proportions are laid out via ad triangulum,
        > as can be seen in Reginald Ely's drawing for the chapel. (He has a book called
        > The Mysteries of Kings College Chapel which I have not seen.)
        >
        > I've heard that there is gematria connected with Chartre Cathedral as well, but
        > have never seen an exposition on it. With two examples, the question is raised
        > as to whether gematria formed a hidden part of the science of cathedral
        > building.
        >
        > Pennick's book contains a number of references to the history of ad quadratum
        > and ad triangulum which I think you would be interested in plus references to
        > early german and spanish writers on the secrets of cathedral construction.
        >
        > By the way he has a great chapter on the omphalos (he agrees with my theory!).
        > Sorry I haven't had a chance to post on the netting on the omphalos, everyday
        > life has been pretty overwhelming the last few weeks, but I will get to it
        > soon.
        >
        > Dan W.
        >
        > .
        >
        > Mike Bispham wrote:
        >
        > > I was invited by Daniel Gleason to visit his site at
        > > http://www.jesus8880.com/homepage.htm, which details his book 'The Gematria
        > > Mysteries of Jesus Christ'. This might be of interest to a number of
        > > listmembers, and I'd be interested to know how you folks who know about
        > > this stuff rate his research.
        > >
        > > Mike
        >





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      • Barry Carroll
        dan-- yeah, it has been quiet. for one thing its the end of the school year and crunch time in lots of ways. almost as bad as christmas. the slip factor in
        Message 3 of 18 , May 13, 1999
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          dan-- yeah, it has been quiet. for one thing its the end of the school year
          and crunch time in lots of ways. almost as bad as christmas.

          the "slip factor" in gematria has always bothered me. i understand that
          approximation
          doesn't invalidate the poetic truth of some matches but it seems to me that
          when you
          play at this game the tighter the specs you hold to, the more legit your
          results seem.

          i sent in an extended piece to the list. it's an intro to a topic with a
          lot of loose ends.
          How gematria ties back to the subject of cosmology is something i plan to
          comment on.
          i've been holding back some writing on this a since november because there
          was no
          framework to place it in. also another piece on art deco and sacred
          geometry. without some
          larger nail to hang it on, it would fall flat.

          next week after i finish with the dentist, i'm going to duck out and go
          see mounds
          in louisiana/mississippi for 4 days. i plan to take a video camera. that
          way if anyone wants to
          see these places, we can pass the tape around.

          I really do want to get out to Virginia to see those churches and Wren Hall
          in the company of
          Steve Stewart and Mr Walker. I want to see for myself. it would be nice if
          you could come along
          too, since you are in the neighbor hood. No telling when that would be tho.
          Not before fall anyway.Timing is important on that so as to see the effect.

          along those lines, i dream of going to Yucatan on one of those $300 package
          deals that fly out of Houston,
          so as to see that serpent shadow at Chichen Itza .

          then there are the Newark Mound Circles in Ohio...

          the list goes on from there.B



          of At 11:14 PM 5/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
          >So far I have looked at the first 5 chapters of Dan Gleason's Gematria
          Mysteries of
          >Jesus Christ, not with any great depth, since everyday life still has me
          by the
          >throat. Chapters 1, 2, and 3 are very interesting and reveal new,
          probably true,
          >information. Chapter 4 on the Parable of the Sower I found hard to
          follow, with
          >very swampy diagrams. Chapter 5 is a variation on Dave Fideler's geometry
          of the
          >feeding of the 5,000.
          >
          >So bravo to Dan Gleason, he has obviously done a lot of hard work and
          uncovered
          >exciting new material. I am not at all sure that it is the entrance to
          the holy of
          >holies of early Christian Gematria mysteries, however, though I have only
          read the
          >first 5 chapters in a semi-skimming mode.
          >
          >One problem is the margin of error that he allows. I always understood
          that the
          >colel rule says that you can be one unit off and still mark it down as a
          match.
          >Hence 'great joy' which appears in both the Matt and Luke infancy
          narratives equals
          >889, one unit from the 888 of Jesus, but it is still a valid match in my
          book. Dan
          >G. argues (p 35) that when you are comparing gematria that runs into the
          thousands
          >with the numbers on geometrical constructions, a larger margin of error is
          logical
          >-- variations of 1 to 2 percent are invisible to the naked eye on a
          draughtsman's
          >graph and hence should be allowed to count as matches. He therefore equates
          >numbers such as the gematria value 8467 and the graph value 8479.7752
          (99.85%).
          >Unfortunately he tells you in the text that the two are identical, equal
          to 8467,
          >it is only in an appendix that the variation is listed. So one has to
          read the
          >book with care or a false impression of exact matching is created.
          >
          >Dan W.
          >
          >P.S. -- Where is everybody? Is everyone's life as screwed up as mine
          right now? Or
          >is it just the Spring?
          >


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        • Seth Melchert
          Barry Carroll wrote: ... speaking of mounds and all, there is a small local brouhaha right here in the Bay Area, Emeryville to be precise. A short distance
          Message 4 of 18 , May 14, 1999
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            Barry Carroll wrote:
            .....
            >
            > next week after i finish with the dentist, i'm going to duck out and go
            > see mounds
            > in louisiana/mississippi for 4 days. i plan to take a video camera. that
            > way if anyone wants to
            > see these places, we can pass the tape around.

            > along those lines, i dream of going to Yucatan on one of those $300 package
            > deals that fly out of Houston,
            > so as to see that serpent shadow at Chichen Itza .
            >
            > then there are the Newark Mound Circles in Ohio...
            >

            speaking of mounds and all, there is a small local brouhaha right here
            in the Bay Area, Emeryville to be precise. A short distance from my home
            is the site of the old Emeryville shellmound - I mentioned it in passing
            here some time ago. It once measured something like 60 feet high, 300
            feet long, with a large flat top. It is attributed to the Ohlone, the
            local native residents of this area at the time of European invasion,
            but it was not in use by the locals, so who's to know who really built
            it. As I mentioned before, it was one of some 400 some known mounds to
            ring the Bay, but was certainly to largest. It's located on the banks of
            Temescal Creek.

            Anyway...after being used as a platform for an amusement park around the
            turn of the century it was eventually bulldozed. Anthropologists from UC
            Berkeley barely had a chance to survey the contents. Well, Emeryville is
            rapidly shedding its industrial identity and has become a mecca for
            malls, high tech and bio tech companies, condo's, upscale lofts, etc.
            There is a large (upscale) furniture outlet coming to the old Sherwin
            Williams paint factory site. Turns out it is smack dab on the old mound
            site. When excavation started turning up bnes - lots of bones - work was
            halted. Seems that a single Ohlone representative was consulted who
            promptly gave permission for the construction work to proceed, damn the
            anthropologists...beter to have the bones of ancestors crunched by
            machines than be picked over and stored by post-docs and intellectuals.

            As of right now, I have not seen the crews continue work, but at the
            same time I do not hold much hope that anything more will be saved.

            It sends through me echoes of spirits and paths once walked over the
            land I now call my home.

            seth

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          • Barry Carroll
            wow i know the location well. that giant neon sherwin williams cover the world sign was animated and was spectacular. there was a spot were you could sit
            Message 5 of 18 , May 16, 1999
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              wow i know the location well. that giant neon sherwin williams "cover the
              world sign" was animated and was spectacular. there was a spot were you
              could sit and watch the paint pour frona can ,rundown over the globe and
              drip. psychedelic. we used to sit and smoke.


              i'm not clear why you are damning the anthropologists? please explain.

              fantastic to learn that it was a mound site.B
              >
              >speaking of mounds and all, there is a small local brouhaha right here
              >in the Bay Area, Emeryville to be precise. A short distance from my home
              >is the site of the old Emeryville shellmound - I mentioned it in passing
              >here some time ago. It once measured something like 60 feet high, 300
              >feet long, with a large flat top. It is attributed to the Ohlone, the
              >local native residents of this area at the time of European invasion,
              >but it was not in use by the locals, so who's to know who really built
              >it. As I mentioned before, it was one of some 400 some known mounds to
              >ring the Bay, but was certainly to largest. It's located on the banks of
              >Temescal Creek.
              >
              >Anyway...after being used as a platform for an amusement park around the
              >turn of the century it was eventually bulldozed. Anthropologists from UC
              >Berkeley barely had a chance to survey the contents. Well, Emeryville is
              >rapidly shedding its industrial identity and has become a mecca for
              >malls, high tech and bio tech companies, condo's, upscale lofts, etc.
              >There is a large (upscale) furniture outlet coming to the old Sherwin
              >Williams paint factory site. Turns out it is smack dab on the old mound
              >site. When excavation started turning up bnes - lots of bones - work was
              >halted. Seems that a single Ohlone representative was consulted who
              >promptly gave permission for the construction work to proceed, damn the
              >anthropologists...beter to have the bones of ancestors crunched by
              >machines than be picked over and stored by post-docs and intellectuals.
              >
              >As of right now, I have not seen the crews continue work, but at the
              >same time I do not hold much hope that anything more will be saved.
              >
              >It sends through me echoes of spirits and paths once walked over the
              >land I now call my home.
              >
              >seth
              >
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              >
              >
              >


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            • lwalker
              We had a similar situation at Belle Island State Park . A friend of mines collection of Indian artifacts including Adler(sp), the stone that it used to
              Message 6 of 18 , May 16, 1999
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                We had a similar situation at Belle Island State Park .
                A friend of mines collection of "Indian artifacts " including Adler(sp),
                the stone that it used to throw a spear ,convinced the State to buy what
                was the central trading point of the Chesapeake dating back some 10,000
                years .

                The State purchased the property did not and was not interested in the
                "amature " collectors information as to ceremonial dated locations or
                other information of research over the last 100 years .

                They then proceeded to do the least research required ran roads through
                various sites and then placed a concrete picnic site on the top of the
                ceremonial mound .

                The mound never appeared to have any material within but vast amounts of
                material has been found immediately adjacent to the mound edge .

                One collector donated a portion of his collection valued at 20,000 to
                south carolina Indian museum out of discust with disrespect to ancient
                heretage .. He made the statement that DARE in late 1500 stated the
                Indians were speaking broken Hebrew . When reviewing White map of 1589
                ,for Raleigh , you will note 38 degree latitude . Always thought to be
                North Carolina this appears instead to be the location for CHRIST CHURCH
                . This also is the location of the river where the sacred mound is
                located .

                If I understand correctly Thomas Harriot the philosopher /geomancer(SP)
                and teacher to Raleigh was on this expedition . White was a grandfather
                as was Dare to Virgina DARE . When White disappeared from CROTAN he was
                said to have gone to Virginia . The Christ Church location already
                mapped and conforming to astronomical sacred geometry would not be hard
                to find using nothing more than a stick the length of a fore arm or the
                shadow of the hand on the shoulder .

                It is interesting that CROTAN ,COROTOMA River location of CHCH , CORYDON
                , home of CARTER family in ENGLAND . All bear similarity to PYTHAGOREAN
                CROTAN . And that the people recording the information all had a
                passion for sacred geometry and Pythagorean . The spellings vary vastly
                in 1500 and 1600 .

                I suspect the New JERUSALEM was to be located within reach of this once
                sacred mound where you might now enjoy a covered picnic lunch .

                Anyone see the recent News week with the Ice Connecting Europe to
                Virginia and similarity of stone tools and skeleton to Europe . Gee ,the
                anthropologist are finally beginning to review information some hundred
                years old establishing America as first established by a hodge poge of
                travelers .


                Just bits and pieces of information

                Sailing to Paradise is a good book to read on the subject .

                Seth Melchert wrote:
                >

                > Anyway...after being used as a platform for an amusement park around the
                > turn of the century it was eventually bulldozed. Anthropologists from UC
                > Berkeley barely had a chance to survey the contents. Well, Emeryville is
                > rapidly shedding its industrial identity and has become a mecca for
                > malls, high tech and bio tech companies, condo's, upscale lofts, etc.
                > There is a large (upscale) furniture outlet coming to the old Sherwin
                > Williams paint factory site. Turns out it is smack dab on the old mound
                > site. When excavation started turning up bnes - lots of bones - work was
                > halted. Seems that a single Ohlone representative was consulted who
                > promptly gave permission for the construction work to proceed, damn the
                > anthropologists...


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              • Seth Melchert
                ... BARRY: I do not singularly damn the anthropologists, but I was wanting to be a little even-handed instead of just criticizing one over the other. I
                Message 7 of 18 , May 16, 1999
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                  Barry Carroll wrote:
                  >
                  > wow i know the location well. that giant neon sherwin williams "cover the
                  > world sign" was animated and was spectacular. there was a spot were you
                  > could sit and watch the paint pour frona can ,rundown over the globe and
                  > drip. psychedelic. we used to sit and smoke.
                  >
                  > i'm not clear why you are damning the anthropologists? please explain.
                  >
                  > fantastic to learn that it was a mound site.B

                  BARRY:

                  I do not singularly damn the anthropologists, but I was wanting to be a
                  little even-handed instead of just criticizing one over the other. I
                  confess, I see many ways of looking at this. In the eyes of many native
                  americans, anthropologists are no less invasive of their sacred past
                  than any other European, be they developers, writers, or new age
                  mystics. As an example (and speaking of brouhaha's), Ishi's brain (Ishi
                  was the the last living member of a obscure tribe in northern Califonia,
                  found in the early 1900's and brought to San Francisco for a number of
                  years) was recently discovered pickled in a jar in the back of the
                  Smithsonian Institution. After some acrimony it is being returned to
                  California for a respectful burial by representatives of California
                  natives. Thus, whether their ancestral grounds are being dug up for
                  academic or economic pursuits, it is still a matter of digging up sacred
                  ground. It is a touchy subject.

                  A builder/colleague of mine, Gene deSchmidt had an encounter with this
                  some years ago. He has done extensive work at Tasajara Hot Springs, an
                  extremely remote retreat site run by the San Francisco Zen Center in the
                  back country of Big Sur south of here. They were excavating for some
                  building with a backhoe when they turned up with the remains of a torso.
                  They stopped work immediately (as dictated by California law) and
                  notified some state bureau. The next day two native representatives
                  showed up (one was part Esalen, the native band in that area), quite on
                  edge and not friendly at all. Apprently such discoveries happen on a
                  daily basis, and the usual response from the culprits is, shall we say,
                  not cooperative.

                  In the highly charged meeting Gene tried hard to receive the
                  representatives with dignity and deference. They were walking around the
                  site, looking over the bigger picture of the place. Passing through the
                  garden, a Gloden Eagle suddenly swooped down in front of them (as I
                  recall, Gene said it was nearly close enough to reach out and touch)
                  quite literally "spread eagle", and dropped a killed rabbit at their
                  feet.

                  After a stunned moment, the native reps dropped their animosity and
                  declared that this was a sign that (for a change) builder and property
                  owners were conducting themselves properly, and they resolved the
                  situation quickly. The body was given a burial next the to site where
                  Suzuki Roshi was buried, near the garden where the eagle had appeared.

                  Gives me goose bumps just to think of it again.

                  OK, a bit of a digression, but I hope illustrative of my
                  response...anytime we are dealing with the sacred, different rules may
                  apply, and I do not wish to jump in condemning one group faster than
                  another.





                  > >
                  > >speaking of mounds and all, there is a small local brouhaha right here
                  > >in the Bay Area, Emeryville to be precise. A short distance from my home
                  > >is the site of the old Emeryville shellmound - I mentioned it in passing
                  > >here some time ago. It once measured something like 60 feet high, 300
                  > >feet long, with a large flat top. It is attributed to the Ohlone, the
                  > >local native residents of this area at the time of European invasion,
                  > >but it was not in use by the locals, so who's to know who really built
                  > >it. As I mentioned before, it was one of some 400 some known mounds to
                  > >ring the Bay, but was certainly to largest. It's located on the banks of
                  > >Temescal Creek.
                  > >
                  > >Anyway...after being used as a platform for an amusement park around the
                  > >turn of the century it was eventually bulldozed. Anthropologists from UC
                  > >Berkeley barely had a chance to survey the contents. Well, Emeryville is
                  > >rapidly shedding its industrial identity and has become a mecca for
                  > >malls, high tech and bio tech companies, condo's, upscale lofts, etc.
                  > >There is a large (upscale) furniture outlet coming to the old Sherwin
                  > >Williams paint factory site. Turns out it is smack dab on the old mound
                  > >site. When excavation started turning up bnes - lots of bones - work was
                  > >halted. Seems that a single Ohlone representative was consulted who
                  > >promptly gave permission for the construction work to proceed, damn the
                  > >anthropologists...beter to have the bones of ancestors crunched by
                  > >machines than be picked over and stored by post-docs and intellectuals.
                  > >
                  > >As of right now, I have not seen the crews continue work, but at the
                  > >same time I do not hold much hope that anything more will be saved.
                  > >
                  > >It sends through me echoes of spirits and paths once walked over the
                  > >land I now call my home.
                  > >
                  > >seth

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                • Susie Pan
                  Many tks Barry, I enjoyed reading e-mail received. Honorable Love and Respect, Susie Pan ... From: Barry Carroll To:
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 16, 1999
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                    Many tks Barry, I enjoyed reading e-mail received.

                    Honorable Love and Respect,

                    Susie Pan
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Barry Carroll <palladin@...>
                    To: sacredlandscapelist@egroups.com <sacredlandscapelist@egroups.com>
                    Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 11:42 AM
                    Subject: [sacredlandscapelist] Re: Gematria


                    >wow i know the location well. that giant neon sherwin williams "cover the
                    >world sign" was animated and was spectacular. there was a spot were you
                    >could sit and watch the paint pour frona can ,rundown over the globe and
                    >drip. psychedelic. we used to sit and smoke.
                    >
                    >
                    >i'm not clear why you are damning the anthropologists? please explain.
                    >
                    >fantastic to learn that it was a mound site.B
                    >>
                    >>speaking of mounds and all, there is a small local brouhaha right here
                    >>in the Bay Area, Emeryville to be precise. A short distance from my home
                    >>is the site of the old Emeryville shellmound - I mentioned it in passing
                    >>here some time ago. It once measured something like 60 feet high, 300
                    >>feet long, with a large flat top. It is attributed to the Ohlone, the
                    >>local native residents of this area at the time of European invasion,
                    >>but it was not in use by the locals, so who's to know who really built
                    >>it. As I mentioned before, it was one of some 400 some known mounds to
                    >>ring the Bay, but was certainly to largest. It's located on the banks of
                    >>Temescal Creek.
                    >>
                    >>Anyway...after being used as a platform for an amusement park around the
                    >>turn of the century it was eventually bulldozed. Anthropologists from UC
                    >>Berkeley barely had a chance to survey the contents. Well, Emeryville is
                    >>rapidly shedding its industrial identity and has become a mecca for
                    >>malls, high tech and bio tech companies, condo's, upscale lofts, etc.
                    >>There is a large (upscale) furniture outlet coming to the old Sherwin
                    >>Williams paint factory site. Turns out it is smack dab on the old mound
                    >>site. When excavation started turning up bnes - lots of bones - work was
                    >>halted. Seems that a single Ohlone representative was consulted who
                    >>promptly gave permission for the construction work to proceed, damn the
                    >>anthropologists...beter to have the bones of ancestors crunched by
                    >>machines than be picked over and stored by post-docs and intellectuals.
                    >>
                    >>As of right now, I have not seen the crews continue work, but at the
                    >>same time I do not hold much hope that anything more will be saved.
                    >>
                    >>It sends through me echoes of spirits and paths once walked over the
                    >>land I now call my home.
                    >>
                    >>seth
                    >>
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                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
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                  • Barry Carroll
                    seth--- what a terrific story. i think respect always ought to be the guiding principle in these matters.B ... eGroups.com home:
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 18, 1999
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                      seth---
                      what a terrific story.
                      i think respect always ought to be the guiding principle in these matters.B

                      BARRY:
                      >
                      >I do not singularly damn the anthropologists, but I was wanting to be a
                      >little even-handed instead of just criticizing one over the other. I
                      >confess, I see many ways of looking at this. In the eyes of many native
                      >americans, anthropologists are no less invasive of their sacred past
                      >than any other European, be they developers, writers, or new age
                      >mystics. As an example (and speaking of brouhaha's), Ishi's brain (Ishi
                      >was the the last living member of a obscure tribe in northern Califonia,
                      >found in the early 1900's and brought to San Francisco for a number of
                      >years) was recently discovered pickled in a jar in the back of the
                      >Smithsonian Institution. After some acrimony it is being returned to
                      >California for a respectful burial by representatives of California
                      >natives. Thus, whether their ancestral grounds are being dug up for
                      >academic or economic pursuits, it is still a matter of digging up sacred
                      >ground. It is a touchy subject.
                      >
                      >A builder/colleague of mine, Gene deSchmidt had an encounter with this
                      >some years ago. He has done extensive work at Tasajara Hot Springs, an
                      >extremely remote retreat site run by the San Francisco Zen Center in the
                      >back country of Big Sur south of here. They were excavating for some
                      >building with a backhoe when they turned up with the remains of a torso.
                      >They stopped work immediately (as dictated by California law) and
                      >notified some state bureau. The next day two native representatives
                      >showed up (one was part Esalen, the native band in that area), quite on
                      >edge and not friendly at all. Apprently such discoveries happen on a
                      >daily basis, and the usual response from the culprits is, shall we say,
                      >not cooperative.
                      >
                      >In the highly charged meeting Gene tried hard to receive the
                      >representatives with dignity and deference. They were walking around the
                      >site, looking over the bigger picture of the place. Passing through the
                      >garden, a Gloden Eagle suddenly swooped down in front of them (as I
                      >recall, Gene said it was nearly close enough to reach out and touch)
                      >quite literally "spread eagle", and dropped a killed rabbit at their
                      >feet.
                      >
                      >After a stunned moment, the native reps dropped their animosity and
                      >declared that this was a sign that (for a change) builder and property
                      >owners were conducting themselves properly, and they resolved the
                      >situation quickly. The body was given a burial next the to site where
                      >Suzuki Roshi was buried, near the garden where the eagle had appeared.
                      >
                      >Gives me goose bumps just to think of it again.
                      >
                      >OK, a bit of a digression, but I hope illustrative of my
                      >response...anytime we are dealing with the sacred, different rules may
                      >apply, and I do not wish to jump in condemning one group faster than
                      >another.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >> >
                      >> >speaking of mounds and all, there is a small local brouhaha right here
                      >> >in the Bay Area, Emeryville to be precise. A short distance from my home
                      >> >is the site of the old Emeryville shellmound - I mentioned it in passing
                      >> >here some time ago. It once measured something like 60 feet high, 300
                      >> >feet long, with a large flat top. It is attributed to the Ohlone, the
                      >> >local native residents of this area at the time of European invasion,
                      >> >but it was not in use by the locals, so who's to know who really built
                      >> >it. As I mentioned before, it was one of some 400 some known mounds to
                      >> >ring the Bay, but was certainly to largest. It's located on the banks of
                      >> >Temescal Creek.
                      >> >
                      >> >Anyway...after being used as a platform for an amusement park around the
                      >> >turn of the century it was eventually bulldozed. Anthropologists from UC
                      >> >Berkeley barely had a chance to survey the contents. Well, Emeryville is
                      >> >rapidly shedding its industrial identity and has become a mecca for
                      >> >malls, high tech and bio tech companies, condo's, upscale lofts, etc.
                      >> >There is a large (upscale) furniture outlet coming to the old Sherwin
                      >> >Williams paint factory site. Turns out it is smack dab on the old mound
                      >> >site. When excavation started turning up bnes - lots of bones - work was
                      >> >halted. Seems that a single Ohlone representative was consulted who
                      >> >promptly gave permission for the construction work to proceed, damn the
                      >> >anthropologists...beter to have the bones of ancestors crunched by
                      >> >machines than be picked over and stored by post-docs and intellectuals.
                      >> >
                      >> >As of right now, I have not seen the crews continue work, but at the
                      >> >same time I do not hold much hope that anything more will be saved.
                      >> >
                      >> >It sends through me echoes of spirits and paths once walked over the
                      >> >land I now call my home.
                      >> >
                      >> >seth
                      >
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                    • Barry Carroll
                      hi john--- i know so little about your area. always glad to hear about history s twists and turns.B ... eGroups.com home:
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 18, 1999
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                        hi john---
                        i know so little about your area. always glad to hear about history's
                        twists and turns.B

                        At 09:16 AM 5/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
                        >We had a similar situation at Belle Island State Park .
                        >A friend of mines collection of "Indian artifacts " including Adler(sp),
                        >the stone that it used to throw a spear ,convinced the State to buy what
                        >was the central trading point of the Chesapeake dating back some 10,000
                        >years .
                        >
                        >T


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                      • CG
                        Thanks Vincent and Stephen for your book suggestions. Personally, I am more interested in Greek gematria than Hebrew. But I ll look into them. Cheers! re:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 27, 2002
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                          Thanks Vincent and Stephen for your book suggestions. Personally, I am more
                          interested in Greek gematria than Hebrew. But I'll look into them. Cheers!

                          re: what the heck is this thing all about?

                          Vincent suggested "sub-routine"; Mike suggested "parallel mathematical and
                          carrier text narratives"; Stephen said "...like opposite sides of a leaf".
                          These are excellent ways of thinking about it. : )

                          I would add: numerical allusion. To me, gematria is very close to the
                          multiple-layers of meaning that words may be given or contain in poetry.
                          Gematria's combinations and juxtapositions of meaning are simply
                          mathematical "associations" much as poetry often contains allusions to other
                          works, traditions or myths.

                          When Homer would use several epithets for any one of the Greek gods, was he
                          just being "clever" in doing that? Was it "useless" for him to do so?
                          Without a numeric equivalence between the words perhaps he was. But if the
                          words are actually the same numbers then, in the context of poetry at least,
                          a greater range of valences may be had.

                          Good luck with it,

                          -Chris
                        • Judson Chambers
                          Hello sacredlandscape forum: Dan wrote concerning God-intoxicated priest/shamans to which a minor recoil was felt on my part. Why I asked? Did I sense a
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 29, 2002
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                            Hello sacredlandscape forum:

                            Dan wrote concerning "God-intoxicated priest/shamans"
                            to which a minor recoil was felt on my part. Why I
                            asked? Did I sense a possible misidentification of a
                            group of individuals who deserve a better address? Did
                            I sense that man, who would have reached the
                            realization of a god-head responsible for the
                            ever-gushing forth of primal forces for creative
                            being, this man should be characterized as
                            "intoxicated"? Was it erroneous on my part to percieve
                            a misunderstanding of "intoxicated" and the context in
                            which its spell had/has effect?

                            Given, that I had arrived (without, I might state, a
                            taint of toxic disturbance in the archetypic harmony
                            in the balance of spirit and body) at the being of
                            Godhead within my spiritual consciousness, I knew that
                            perhaps a misunderstanding had arisen. Surely, I had
                            not detected a perception of "intoxication" on my own
                            part.

                            But should it be understood that a development of
                            consciousness is a pre-requirement for the grasp of
                            the archetype of "godhead", its nuances, its
                            behaviours? For surely those who have not developed an
                            awareness of the "godhead" most often misidentify its
                            actual functioning, resorting to various tightly
                            embraced "perceptions" of the "godhead" that might
                            themselves be regarded as evidence of "toxic".

                            For example, many of those whose consciousness has
                            experienced epistemologic development have realized
                            that the "godhead" in its creative function releases
                            what many claim it does not release, ie "omniscience"
                            and "omnipotence". But these factors had to be
                            released in order for the offspring of the "godhead"
                            to have "freedom". We as his offspring share in his
                            "science" (the knowing of spiritual or physical
                            reality). We praxeologically share in his "power"
                            (potence) in and over reality.

                            There is one other factor, however, that is a uniting
                            yet separating capacity that is situated in the midst
                            of the 2 aforementioned let-loosed and freed
                            "omni"-abilities. Those in the past who have purged
                            their thinking and epistemologic capacities (even
                            "priest/shamans") have won a perception of this
                            praxeologic and golden truth. That perception, that
                            the like energies of polarity must repel each the
                            other, whereas the unlike energies must be compelled
                            to embrace each the other, are both to be held in
                            suspension within the framework of unified being
                            itself. This is a macrocosmic as well as microcosmic
                            consideration. Factually, there is a connection
                            between the micro and macrocosm that contains this 3rd
                            factor also.

                            "Priest/shamans" and independants have found that
                            ratio and ratiocination (without "intoxication") that
                            underlies and precedes the phenomena of "number", that
                            pervades throughout the elaboration of "number"
                            (complicit in gematria and the kabala) without the
                            loss but with the necessity of the 3rd factor cited
                            above.

                            With the intermix of growing "science" ("knowing" of
                            reality, spirit or physical) free man found the
                            understanding of that 3rd factor and named it the
                            "vesica piscis" or the Christ principle.

                            I should like to continue in a later post, especially
                            pursuing an appreciation of how gematria and kabala
                            relates to practical or praxeologic issues in our
                            everyday lives, where one who has not entertained
                            these archetypes and epistemologic realities may
                            appreciate their connection to the cycles in which
                            even imperical life persists.

                            In closing, John Michell is just one of the burning
                            lights reflecting upon these issues, and he is a
                            positive source, yet there is more that underlies it
                            that John Michell does not upheave. Perhaps we can do
                            that in this forum. We can bring to surfaced a perfect
                            understanding of gematria in a context of
                            meaningfulness that "Alexandre" and many of us seek.
                            We can discover the bearing such knowledge of gematria
                            and even knowledge of Godhead can bring to everyday
                            living?

                            Regards,
                            Jud

                            Dan Washburn <danw@...> wrote:
                            Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:45:32 -0500
                            Sub: Re: Gematria

                            >God-intoxicated priest/shamans who were at the same
                            time musicians, mathematicians, architects, and
                            astronomers invented gematria and enshrined in it not
                            only their sacred cosmology but the paths that they
                            had blazed to higher consciousness.

                            >In the west this happened in the Assyro-Babylonian,
                            Greek and Jewish cultures. I suspect that it was also
                            present in Megalithic society and ancient Egypt.

                            >Gematria exists in early Christianity as a set of
                            hidden mysteries; the 'solid food' of advanced
                            teaching that is hinted at in Paul and the letter to
                            the hebrews.

                            >To recover the lost teachings is an historical
                            adventure, a mathematical puzzle, and a mystical
                            transformation. It is fascinating on all three
                            grounds.

                            >A while back I wrote a series of posts on the
                            gematria of the miracle of the feeding of the 5,000.
                            If you refer back to those posts in our archives you
                            can see something of what i am talking about.

                            >Most of the gematria in the Crowley venue and in the
                            medieval Kabbalah that i have seen seems barren to me,
                            mere games, not a revelation of truth. It is the
                            combination of gematria with sacred geometry and
                            mystical meditation that leads to the inner precincts
                            of the Temple, the sacred cube that is the Holy of
                            Holies, the place where God and Man meet on earth.

                            >Sorry to be so religiously oracular here. This is
                            all subject to debate and personal interpretation, of
                            course. One of these days i will get it written down
                            in an easy to follow way. I have in mind a workbook
                            called Jesus the Geometer.

                            >Dan



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                          • Seyfert-1
                            50021031 VII Winter s Eve / Halloween / Samhain ... any idea of the primary time periods for these? ... coded within that letter, in Greek? does the Geometer
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 31, 2002
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                              50021031 VII Winter's Eve / Halloween / Samhain

                              Dan Washburn <danw@...>:
                              >> God-intoxicated priest/shamans who were at the same
                              >> time musicians, mathematicians, architects, and
                              >> astronomers invented gematria and enshrined in it not
                              >> only their sacred cosmology but the paths that they
                              >> had blazed to higher consciousness.
                              >>
                              >> In the west this happened in the Assyro-Babylonian,
                              >> Greek and Jewish cultures. I suspect that it was also
                              >> present in Megalithic society and ancient Egypt.

                              any idea of the primary time periods for these?

                              >> Gematria exists in early Christianity as a set of
                              >> hidden mysteries; the 'solid food' of advanced
                              >> teaching that is hinted at in Paul and the letter to
                              >> the hebrews.

                              coded within that letter, in Greek? does the Geometer
                              workbook mentioned below describe this?

                              >> To recover the lost teachings is an historical
                              >> adventure, a mathematical puzzle, and a mystical
                              >> transformation. It is fascinating on all three
                              >> grounds.

                              compare the Nag Hammadi materials, and the various
                              Rosicrucian (e.g. Spencer Lewis) "Lost Teachings of
                              Jesus". one might compare these also with grimoires
                              like "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses", which are an
                              appendant to religious scripture for the author's
                              purposes. I'd be willing to bet that there are many
                              instructions by Gautama Buddha which appeared after
                              his parinirvana (e.g. that guarded by the nagas for
                              Arjuna of the Nagas, one of the founders of the
                              Great Vehicle Tradition in Buddhism).

                              >> Most of the gematria in the Crowley venue and in the
                              >> medieval Kabbalah that i have seen seems barren to me,
                              >> mere games, not a revelation of truth. It is the
                              >> combination of gematria with sacred geometry and
                              >> mystical meditation that leads to the inner precincts
                              >> of the Temple, the sacred cube that is the Holy of
                              >> Holies, the place where God and Man meet on earth.
                              >>
                              >> ...I have in mind a workbook called Jesus the Geometer.

                              indeed, most of what I've seen Hermetic magicians using
                              gematria (GD, Crowley, others) for is for some kind of
                              language by which one might communicate with extra-
                              physical intelligences. that is, it is not immediately
                              apparent that the gematria is more than a vehicle for
                              the exposition of the author's assertions (e.g. Crowley
                              equated 'Thelema' (in Greek) with 'Agape' (also in Greek)
                              on account of their respective sums to 93, and this has
                              become a very important bit of information for his followers
                              and the construction of mysticism and mysteries thereafter.

                              mystical meditation is a very important part of Golden
                              Dawn practices, and those who followed in their wake.
                              this particularly included the tarot images, and such
                              practice has been popularized by such authorities as
                              Paul Foster Case, whose tarot deck, based on the
                              Smith-Waite art, is used for familiarization with colour
                              and letter symbolism as well as gematrian results as
                              one colours the cards and meditates upon their principles.

                              my own brief investigation into these matters gives me
                              little beyond a reference to sacred alphabets to connect
                              this subject to SL issues.

                              Judson Chambers <nuchamber@...>:
                              > Hello sacredlandscape forum:

                              hey Judson,

                              > "Priest/shamans" and independants have found that
                              > ratio and ratiocination (without "intoxication") that
                              > underlies and precedes the phenomena of "number", that
                              > pervades throughout the elaboration of "number"
                              > (complicit in gematria and the kabala)....

                              could you name some of the historical priests/shamans
                              and independents that you feel most adroitly exemplify
                              this quality, and explain more about this ratiocination?

                              > ...pursuing an appreciation of how gematria and kabala
                              > relates to practical or praxeologic issues in our
                              > everyday lives, where one who has not entertained
                              > these archetypes and epistemologic realities may
                              > appreciate their connection to the cycles in which
                              > even imperical life persists.

                              if you can tie it in with our list of topics in the email
                              list, I'd greatly like to hear more from you on this topic,
                              as you've described immediately above (I'll append that
                              list to my email just in case you haven't seen it).

                              > ...We can bring to surfaced a perfect
                              > understanding of gematria in a context of
                              > meaningfulness that "Alexandre" and many of us seek.

                              the meaning of 'perfect' in this context would become
                              the most important aspect of your analysis. I like the
                              idea of comparing and contrasting gematria methods,
                              languages in which gematria is applied, discussing the
                              theory about how it might be used, and examining what
                              historical records (with references) there are that
                              pertain to its previous usage for Hebrew, Greek and
                              other languages in which it appeared.

                              > We can discover the bearing such knowledge of gematria
                              > and even knowledge of Godhead can bring to everyday
                              > living?

                              where it intersects with our mutual interests as expressed
                              in the SL web-page(s), this would be quite valuable (see
                              below). thanks!

                              Seyfert-1
                              nagasiva@...
                              ====================================

                              sacred geometry;

                              temple and shrine architecture, both ecclesiastic and vernacular;

                              archaeoastronomy;

                              sundials and astro-calendrical devices;

                              latent geometrical order in the biological world;

                              religious and Freemasonic iconography in architecture,
                              theater, and garden design;

                              the history and construction of labyrinths;

                              garden follies, grottoes, and other forms of symbolic
                              landscaping;

                              relationships between architecture and music;

                              geometric principles underlying formal garden design and
                              sacred architecture;

                              geomancy, feng shui, and ley lines;

                              symbolic and religious considerations in agriculture
                              (e.g. culture-specific astro-calendrical beliefs
                              about planting times and harvest festivals);

                              the history of mathematics, geometry, metrology,
                              calendar-making, and related sciences;

                              sacred site tourism;

                              and contributions to a web-based Sacred Landscape
                              Bibliography featuring information and commentary on
                              what others have published on these topics.

                              EOF
                            • catherine yronwode
                              ... But, siva, there are fundamental differences between 1) the actual recovery of lost teachings such as the the Nag Hamadi library 2) the schoarly
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 13, 2002
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                                Seyfert-1 <nagasiva@...> wrote:

                                > Dan Washburn <danw@...>:
                                > >>>> To recover the lost teachings is an historical
                                > >>>> adventure, a mathematical puzzle, and a mystical
                                > >>>> transformation. It is fascinating on all three
                                > >>>> grounds.
                                >
                                > Seyfert-1:
                                > >> compare the Nag Hammadi materials, and the various
                                > >> Rosicrucian (e.g. Spencer Lewis) "Lost Teachings of
                                > >> Jesus". one might compare these also with grimoires
                                > >> like "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses", which are an
                                > >> appendant to religious scripture for the author's
                                > >> purposes. I'd be willing to bet that there are many
                                > >> instructions by Gautama Buddha which appeared after
                                > >> his parinirvana (e.g. that guarded by the nagas for
                                > >> Arjuna of the Nagas, one of the founders of the
                                > >> Great Vehicle Tradition in Buddhism).
                                >
                                > Dan Washburn <danw@...>
                                > > Sorry, I don't understand what you are driving at here.
                                > > are you saying that all these sources contain similar
                                > > historical, mystical, mathematical puzzles?
                                >
                                > no, I'm saying that "recovering lost teachings" is a big
                                > attention-getter and proves to be the inspiration for
                                > creating new "old classics" from authorities which have
                                > become popular (e.g. Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy,
                                > by pseudo-Agrippa), as well as attempting to utilize new
                                > discoveries (Nag Hammadi, Qumran texts) to foster added
                                > interest in someone's preferred cosmology or theory.

                                But, siva, there are fundamental differences between
                                1) the actual recovery of lost teachings such as the
                                the Nag Hamadi library
                                2) the schoarly reconstruction of misinterrted materials
                                and/or the re-interpretation as "fables" or "myths"
                                as "lost teachings" as in "Hamlet's Mill."
                                3) the actual creation of spurious lost teachings as in the
                                Egyptian Secrets iof Albertus Magnus or the pseudo-Agrippa

                                Lumping these all together as mere "attention-getters" as you did does
                                not do them justice or allow the discriminating student to distinguish
                                one class of information from another. Also, by lumping them all
                                together, one is likely to throw the baby out with the bathwater --
                                classifying "Hamlet's Mill," for instance, with Von Daniken's "Chariots
                                of the Gods?" -- which would be a terrible loss, in my opinion.

                                cat yronwode

                                The Sacred Landscape ------- http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredland.html
                              • Seyfert-1
                                50021114 VII ... sure are. ... it is their common quality -- they command attention by their quality of being lost and discovered and thus imply
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 14, 2002
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                                  50021114 VII

                                  sri catyananda <cat@...>:
                                  > But, siva, there are fundamental differences between
                                  > 1) the actual recovery of lost teachings such as the
                                  > the Nag Hamadi library
                                  > 2) the scholarly reconstruction of misinterrted materials
                                  > and/or the re-interpretation as "fables" or "myths"
                                  > as "lost teachings" as in "Hamlet's Mill."
                                  > 3) the actual creation of spurious lost teachings as in the
                                  > Egyptian Secrets iof Albertus Magnus or the pseudo-Agrippa

                                  sure are.

                                  > Lumping these all together as mere "attention-getters" as you did

                                  it is their common quality -- they command attention by their
                                  quality of being "lost and discovered" and thus imply preciousness.
                                  after that their origin comes into question, which is where you've
                                  nicely focussed.

                                  > does not do them justice

                                  oh surely it does not as regards their importance, agreed. :>
                                  only as regards that particular quality.

                                  > or allow the discriminating student to distinguish one class of
                                  > information from another.

                                  nor was I attempting to do this, merely remarking on their shared
                                  quality in varying categories. it is one of the qualities that
                                  occasionally comes up in New Age materials, at least some of the
                                  pseudo-archaeology sources, and other hazard zones that may at
                                  times become part of Sacred Landscape discussions, I've noticed.

                                  > Also, by lumping them all
                                  > together, one is likely to throw the baby out with the bathwater --
                                  > classifying "Hamlet's Mill," for instance, with Von Daniken's "Chariots
                                  > of the Gods?" -- which would be a terrible loss, in my opinion.

                                  indeed. which would you suggest is the most collossal hoax of the
                                  books written for our subject list? convinced the most people of its
                                  reality (e.g. crop circles?), or duped the greatest number for the
                                  longest time? the most strongly related to 'lost' things? how many
                                  people believe there are 6th-10th books written by Moses (and who
                                  is the mysterious "Ancient Nation of Israel and of the Old and New
                                  Testaments" who believes "it is just as accurate to say that Moses
                                  wrote ten books as it is to limit him to the authorship of on the
                                  first five books of the Old Testament"?).

                                  I realize the differences of importance here, I was merely
                                  responding to Dan's comments:

                                  Dan Washburn <danw@...>:
                                  >>>> To recover the lost teachings is an historical adventure,
                                  >>>> a mathematical puzzle, and a mystical transformation. It
                                  >>>> is fascinating on all three grounds.

                                  this might apply to all manner of escapade, inclusive of the
                                  construction of sacred architecture (e.g. the reconstruction of
                                  the Temple of Solomon), divinatory systems (e.g. the recovery
                                  of some ancient Yijing Chess Oracle using dice), or channelling
                                  the Lost But Recovered Master Plans to Reality (in cypher?).

                                  Seyfert-1
                                  nagasiva@...
                                • C G
                                  Dan wrote: We should be finding a treasure map in these mysteries, not intellectual games for jewish/gentile geometers. Now that is a quotable quote! Well
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 2, 2012
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                                    Dan wrote:

                                    "We should be finding a treasure map in these mysteries, not intellectual games for jewish/gentile geometers."

                                    Now that is a quotable quote! Well said, and something that is very close to my own heart and aims these days.

                                    I have started re-reading the List Archives. (I've been trying in vain to find a similar venue with like-minded individuals but to no avail.) Do you think that much of what we discussed here on this list was just that...intellectual games as opposed to inner road maps? Wouldn't it be nice to see an ROI analysis done on our former list members to see how many have had epiphanies/insights since those discussion days...I feel as though we laid good ground work for epiphanies, if nothing else. What do you think?

                                    Something Cat said in a different post also struck a chord with me today, ten years on:

                                    In speaking about the divergent etymologies of alchemy, she writes: "I'd agree with this [tentative etymology], but would also bounce off it to contemplate the
                                    miraculous tendency of alchemical writers to use the word as a sort of
                                    Ariadne's thread leading through the labyrinth of language -- a sort of
                                    guided meditation (zikkr) or cabalistic game."

                                    "Ariadne's thread" is used here not unlike what you describe below...intellectual games not road maps.

                                    Where is Papa Barry these days? Is he still on this list? Miss his sage posts!

                                    Also, it was uncanny going back through the 1999 posts to see how many good books List members recommended and I actually purchased/followed up on. Powerful to see the influence you've all had on me.

                                    Well, I'm sure I will follow-up on a few leads as I make my way through the List Archives.

                                    Cheerio!

                                    Chris

                                    --- In sacredlandscapelist@yahoogroups.com, Dan Washburn <danw@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Mike --
                                    >
                                    > Thanks hugely for the referal url to dan gleason's web site on the gematria
                                    > mysteries of Jesus Christ. I've looked at the 1st chapter and am in process of
                                    > downloading the book, but from what I've seen so far it may well be another
                                    > major piece in recovering the hidden wisdom in early christianity.
                                    >
                                    > One thing that bothers me about michell, fideler, and now gleason is the lack
                                    > of spiritual content, of a real connection with the mystical heart of Jesus'
                                    > teachings and the inner radiance of the saints, the transformation into glory
                                    > as St. Paul calls it. We should be finding a treasure map in these mysteries,
                                    > not intellectual games for jewish/gentile geometers.
                                    >
                                    > I ran across a reference to gematria in the building of King's College Chapel
                                    > (not really a chapel, since it is longer than Oxford Cathedral). Nigel Pennick
                                    > says in The Ancient Science of Geomancy that it has 26 stained glass windows,
                                    > 26 structural uprights, 26 ribs in each pair of fans in the vaulting, etc. 26
                                    > is the gematria number of the tetragrammaton IHVH and IHVH is carved over the
                                    > west door. Further the ground plan proportions are laid out via ad triangulum,
                                    > as can be seen in Reginald Ely's drawing for the chapel. (He has a book called
                                    > The Mysteries of Kings College Chapel which I have not seen.)
                                    >
                                    > I've heard that there is gematria connected with Chartre Cathedral as well, but
                                    > have never seen an exposition on it. With two examples, the question is raised
                                    > as to whether gematria formed a hidden part of the science of cathedral
                                    > building.
                                    >
                                    > Pennick's book contains a number of references to the history of ad quadratum
                                    > and ad triangulum which I think you would be interested in plus references to
                                    > early german and spanish writers on the secrets of cathedral construction.
                                    >
                                    > By the way he has a great chapter on the omphalos (he agrees with my theory!).
                                    > Sorry I haven't had a chance to post on the netting on the omphalos, everyday
                                    > life has been pretty overwhelming the last few weeks, but I will get to it
                                    > soon.
                                    >
                                    > Dan W.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > .
                                    >
                                    > Mike Bispham wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I was invited by Daniel Gleason to visit his site at
                                    > > http://www.jesus8880.com/homepage.htm, which details his book 'The Gematria
                                    > > Mysteries of Jesus Christ'. This might be of interest to a number of
                                    > > listmembers, and I'd be interested to know how you folks who know about
                                    > > this stuff rate his research.
                                    > >
                                    > > Mike
                                    > >
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