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Re: [sl] Chinese Dragons

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  • Mark Swaney
    Terrie, I ve been thinking about your post. ... That s one view. The logical consequence of reducing existence to our ability to percieve it is that without
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 1, 2001
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      Terrie,

      I've been thinking about your post.

      Terrie Halprin wrote:

      > Hi Mark,
      >
      > I tried e-mailing to the list, again -but, evidently, at the moment there's
      > still some techn. difficulties -or, something like that. Anyway, I wanted
      > to send this along.
      >
      > Monday I tripped over some interesting philosophy that I had wanted to
      > relate. You know how there's been this long standing philosophical yearning
      > for understanding/articulating the "philosophical nature of existence" -the
      > prevailing view being that the nature of existence lies within our ability
      > to perceive it

      That's one view. The logical consequence of reducing existence to our ability
      to percieve it is that without ourselves, there is (or was) nothing. This seems

      to me to be contradiction of all our knowledge, since we are sure that at some
      point we did not exist, but at that time, we are equally sure that "something"
      did in fact, exist.

      > therefore existence =perception -or, visa-versa.

      The nature of reality is tied up with ourselves in that we are a part of what we

      percieve. The presumption, often unconsious, that we can seperate ourselves
      from the enviornment has been proven untrue, therefore there is actually no
      possibility of being able to know what a process, or object, or anything would
      have been had we not existed in the first place and wished to know it (or
      percieve it) in the second place. For this reason and others of a thermodynamic

      nature, knowledge itself is both a prime physical cause of reality, and an
      effect of it.

      > Well, I was
      > wondering, what if, really, perception, has an equal and opposite (a vital)
      > -what if that opposite is attention -isn't that beautiful! It's like
      > noticing the "art of life" or something.

      Attention is the willful exercise of perception, an aspect of the conscious
      mind, whereas it may be argued that perception is an aspect of the unconscious
      mind, as we often "percieve" - our sensory organs are operative - without being
      aware of it.

      > Anyway, the first thing I thought about relating was this body/mind/sound
      > rap I've been watching for awhile. I watch body/mind/sound cuz they are
      > "active participants" for us -receptive is nice, yes, and beautifully
      > important BUT active is active -and, so I kinda think that it is always well
      > worth paying "attention" to. (Ha!) Now, if: perception =mind, Attention
      > =body -what about sound -right? That's what I wondered... (and, [red,
      > yellow, blue] what color/combo. expresses it.) and then, it occurred to me
      > -sound is another menses -it's "flow" between the body and the mind.

      All physical existence is in flow, if for no other reason than the passage of
      time, which is the ultimate flow.

      > Of
      > couse!! Isn't that interesting. So, now, I'm wondering/looking into it
      > -how exactly does/can "sound menses" arrangements tie in/relate and effect
      > their environment. The moon/moon phases (water ways/flow) are, of course,
      > the first, important aspects/access that I wanna try to understand more
      > clearly.

      The often noted correlation between the number of days in a woman's cycle and
      the days in the Lunar cycle (28 each, right?) has never been explained
      physically that I know of. Has anyone ever read a physical, biological
      explanation for the length of the human cycle and does it have anything to do
      with the phases of the Moon?

      People of very ancient times also must have been aware of the coincidence,
      because the Moon has always been associated with the female, and (by default!)
      the Sun with the male. This may be crucially important. It may be the earliest

      reason to believe that moving objects in the sky affect human life on Earth. If

      the Moon can have such a powerful effect on the Ocean as to cause tides, and on
      the human body as to cause the reproductive cycle, then what can be the effects
      of the Planets? And if the way that the effect is made is numerical, and
      mathematical in nature (the 28 days) why not look for other numerical,
      mathematical relationships between the objects in the sky and life on the Earth?

      > And, actually, this reminds me of the "armonica" too -Anyway, I
      > think sound is naturally/magically related to the moon and the oceans
      > because it's another natural flow. Does that make sound red (in the grand
      > scheme of things)? I wonder -but, then I'm always wondering something...
      >
      > Best wishes,
      >
      > Terrie
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
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    • mikebispham@cs.com
      In a message dated 01/02/01 15:16:16 GMT Standard Time, ... it ... effect ... course, ... have ... crucially ... in the ... effect ... the ... 28 days) ...
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 2, 2001
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        In a message dated 01/02/01 15:16:16 GMT Standard Time,
        mswaney@... writes:

        > Terrie,
        > I've been thinking about your post.

        > Terrie Halprin wrote:

        > > Of couse!! Isn't that interesting. So, now, I'm wondering/looking into
        it
        > > -how exactly does/can "sound menses" arrangements tie in/relate and
        effect
        > > their environment. The moon/moon phases (water ways/flow) are, of
        course,
        > > the first, important aspects/access that I wanna try to understand more
        > > clearly.

        > The often noted correlation between the number of days in a woman's cycle
        > and the days in the Lunar cycle (28 each, right?) has never been explained
        > physically that I know of. Has anyone ever read a physical, biological
        > explanation for the length of the human cycle and does it have anything to
        > do with the phases of the Moon? People of very ancient times also must
        have
        > been aware of the coincidence, because the Moon has always been associated
        > with the female, and (by default!)the Sun with the male. This may be
        crucially
        > important. It may be the earliest reason to believe that moving objects
        in the
        > sky affect human life on Earth. If the Moon can have such a powerful
        effect
        > on the Ocean as to cause tides, and on the human body as to cause the
        > reproductive cycle, then what can be the effects of the Planets? And if
        the
        > way that the effect is made is numerical, and mathematical in nature (the
        28 days)
        > why not look for other numerical, mathematical relationships between the
        objects
        > in the sky and life on the Earth?

        I think the link between the moon and the _tides_ was still uncertain even as
        late as Galilao. It's not easy to establish a direct link, because the sun
        also affects the ocean's movements, and the land masses complicate things
        still further. I'd guess though that the fact of spring and neap tides (high
        tides at the full and new moon) _do_ give a strong indication of a linkage.
        I'd imagine that the phases of the moon would probably have been observed,
        and correlated with the female menstural cycle, as you say, long ago.

        The fact that both involve water may have been thought important, and, in
        terms of modern understanding, this is, I think, one of the leading clues to
        the curious correlation of moon and female cycles. A number of sea animals
        can be shown to use the moon to synchronise their reproductive behaviour, so
        gaining an advantage over unsynchronised animals. The human reproductive
        system seems to have retained this feature - not just in the 28 day period,
        but in the fact of synchronisation by hormonal influence. It seems likely
        that synchronised periods provided an evolutionary advantage even after we
        left the oceans. (I wonder if flowers do the same thing? That would would
        please my gardener friend no end - he swears by planting ' by the moon'.)

        To return to the point, add to these lunar observations the plain influence
        of the diurnal and annual cycles of the sun, and, yes, a very good launching
        post for a wider planetary astrology.

        One thing I find very interesting here, is that it's the _alignments_ of
        these 'planets' that makes the change. Its the alignment changes that govern
        the phases of the moon, and when the alignments are close (full and new moon)
        the effects (reflected light, tides) are at their strongest. Alignment =
        strongest influence.

        I've been thinking a lot recently about the fact that its the alignments, and
        the geometric angular spacing of the planets that is the crux of astrology -
        and that this may tie in with the same angular regularities that are found in
        other places.
        As I understand it, alignments and oppositions (which are another form of
        alignment), are supplemented by further angular situations, when the planets
        stand in triple or quadruple conjunctions. (I'm showing my ignorance here,
        can anyone help out with the proper terms?)

        This raises questions: is there, for instance, a tie-in (in the medieval
        mind) between the angular arrangements that govern the influences of the
        heavenly bodies, and the (identical) angular arrangements that govern
        platonic matter, and crystal formation (and cathedral construction)? Does
        anyone have any idea how important astrology was to alchemy; ie. should 'the
        work' be conducted at astrologically auspicious times? Is the best silver
        made during a full moon - in other words do these traditions tie-in deeply in
        the same way as, for instance, medicine and astrology?

        Mike
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