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Re: [sl] Abramelin copyright?

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  • CG
    Hi Barry, As I understand copyright law, older books fall into a different category from new material and this is one reason why you see so many editions of
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 30, 2000
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      Hi Barry,

      As I understand copyright law, older books fall into a different category
      from new material and this is one reason why you see so many editions of
      Mark Twain and Shakespeare on the net, and so few of Salinger and Tolkien.
      The big boys are beyond caring, while the new fellas still need the buck.

      The Abremlin books I found contain "the complete and unaltered text of the
      corresponding sections in the second (1900) edition published by John M.
      Watkins, London."

      I doubt copyright infringement extends that far back (1900). Major nations
      probably follow the Berne copyright convention-- in the USA, almost
      everything created privately after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and
      protected whether it has a notice or not-- but that is pretty damn recent as
      far as these things go.

      As for being in the "public domain", texts are in the public domain if and
      only if the owner explicitly puts it in the public domain *or* if the
      creator has been dead for 50 years. Abramelin would fall into this latter
      category.

      But your hesitation is warranty and clearly heard-- private posts only on
      this one.

      -Chris


      >chris--
      >yikes!
      >what is the source of these digital copies?
      >are you sure you are not infringing copyright
      > by offering to share such complete digital copies?
      >
      >while you might theoretically make them available
      >by posting them on a free website
      >and supplying members with a link,
      >in my opinion
      >this would be a questionable action--
      >one the Sacredlandscapelist ought not
      >support.
      > it would be totally inappropriate for the SLlist or e-groups to
      >host such an item without clarification of the copyright issue.
      >
      >perhaps interested persons
      >could contact you personally by email
      >
      >B
      >
      >At 07:16 PM 12/29/00 +0900, you wrote:
      >>I now have digital copies of the Abramelin books I,II and III for anyone who
      >>would like them. Book III is the one that has the magic word squares if
      >>you'd like to get a look. Me so happy!
      >>
      >>Barry, is there a way to upload it to the list archives so that others may
      >>download it without sending it to everyone?
      >>
      >>-Chris
      >>________________________________________________________________
      >> ___
      >> / __'. .-"""-.
      >>
      >> .-""-| | '.'. / .---. \
      >> / .--. \ \___\ \/ /____| |
      >> / / \ `-.-;-(`_),____.-'._
      >> ; ; `.-" "-:_,(o:==..`-. '. .-"-,
      >> | | / \ / `\ `. \ / .-. \
      >> \ \ | Y __...\ \ \ / / \/
      >>/\ | | | .--""--.| .-' \ '.`---' /
      >>\ \ / / |` \' _...--.; '---'`
      >> \ '-' / jgs /_..---.._ \ .'\\_ `.
      >> `--'` .' (_) `'/ (_) /
      >> `._ _.'| .'
      >>
      >> ``````` '-...--'`
      >>________________________________________________________________
      >>ICQ Number: 52195061
      >>Rants/thoughts: http://www2.comco.ne.jp/~canuck/main.html
      >>Myth Trivia: http://www2.comco.ne.jp/~canuck/trivia.html
      >>________________________________________________________________
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Pam Giese
      Chris is right. Copyrights in the US are only valid for 75 years and then become public domain. If you have these in electronic form, you may consider
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2001
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        Chris is right. Copyrights in the US are only valid for 75 years and then
        become public domain. If you have these in electronic form, you may
        consider sharing them via the Gutenburg Project - http://promo.net/pg/
        Project Gutenburg is a volunteer organization that has been making
        electronic versions of books available free on the internet since the early
        90s. I've had some communication with them and they are open to all types
        of books.

        Pam
        pgiese@...
        http://www.snd.softfarm.com/pws/pgiese

        "Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light..."
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: CG <canuck@...>
        To: <sacredlandscapelist@egroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 8:17 AM
        Subject: Re: [sl] Abramelin copyright?


        > Hi Barry,
        >
        > As I understand copyright law, older books fall into a different category
        > from new material and this is one reason why you see so many editions of
        > Mark Twain and Shakespeare on the net, and so few of Salinger and Tolkien.
        > The big boys are beyond caring, while the new fellas still need the buck.
        >
        > The Abremlin books I found contain "the complete and unaltered text of the
        > corresponding sections in the second (1900) edition published by John M.
        > Watkins, London."
        >
        > I doubt copyright infringement extends that far back (1900). Major
        nations
        > probably follow the Berne copyright convention-- in the USA, almost
        > everything created privately after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and
        > protected whether it has a notice or not-- but that is pretty damn recent
        as
        > far as these things go.
        >
        > As for being in the "public domain", texts are in the public domain if and
        > only if the owner explicitly puts it in the public domain *or* if the
        > creator has been dead for 50 years. Abramelin would fall into this latter
        > category.
        >
        > But your hesitation is warranty and clearly heard-- private posts only on
        > this one.
        >
        > -Chris
        >
        >
        > >chris--
        > >yikes!
        > >what is the source of these digital copies?
        > >are you sure you are not infringing copyright
        > > by offering to share such complete digital copies?
        > >
        > >while you might theoretically make them available
        > >by posting them on a free website
        > >and supplying members with a link,
        > >in my opinion
        > >this would be a questionable action--
        > >one the Sacredlandscapelist ought not
        > >support.
        > > it would be totally inappropriate for the SLlist or e-groups to
        > >host such an item without clarification of the copyright issue.
        > >
        > >perhaps interested persons
        > >could contact you personally by email
        > >
        > >B
        > >
        > >At 07:16 PM 12/29/00 +0900, you wrote:
        > >>I now have digital copies of the Abramelin books I,II and III for anyone
        who
        > >>would like them. Book III is the one that has the magic word squares if
        > >>you'd like to get a look. Me so happy!
        > >>
        > >>Barry, is there a way to upload it to the list archives so that others
        may
        > >>download it without sending it to everyone?
        > >>
        > >>-Chris
        > >>________________________________________________________________
        > >> ___
        > >> / __'. .-"""-.
        > >>
        > >> .-""-| | '.'. / .---. \
        > >> / .--. \ \___\ \/ /____| |
        > >> / / \ `-.-;-(`_),____.-'._
        > >> ; ; `.-" "-:_,(o:==..`-. '. .-"-,
        > >> | | / \ / `\ `. \ / .-. \
        > >> \ \ | Y __...\ \ \ / / \/
        > >>/\ | | | .--""--.| .-' \ '.`---' /
        > >>\ \ / / |` \' _...--.; '---'`
        > >> \ '-' / jgs /_..---.._ \ .'\\_ `.
        > >> `--'` .' (_) `'/ (_) /
        > >> `._ _.'| .'
        > >>
        > >> ``````` '-...--'`
        > >>________________________________________________________________
        > >>ICQ Number: 52195061
        > >>Rants/thoughts: http://www2.comco.ne.jp/~canuck/main.html
        > >>Myth Trivia: http://www2.comco.ne.jp/~canuck/trivia.html
        > >>________________________________________________________________
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
      • Barry Carroll
        CG-- since your post i looked into both the copyright angle and the question of posting to the archives in general. you and pam are right. there is no problem
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 5, 2001
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          CG--

          since your post i looked into both the copyright angle
          and the question of posting to the archives in general.

          you and pam are right.
          there is no problem with
          public domain material.
          so it comes down to where did you get the copy.

          as i understand it--
          Dover owns a copyrighted edition but not the text.
          so if it comes from a source other than the the
          Dover edition you would be in the clear.
          your question helped me to understand how this works.

          Question:
          is your copy a text copy or scanned pages?
          it was pointed out to me that text copies are more ueful
          because they can be searched while scanned copies cannot.
          Cat's husband, Siva expressed interest in seeing an
          online copy and may contact you soon.

          re archives--
          at this time egroups has no mechanism for adding any material
          to the list archive beyond the posts themselves.
          but you have raised in important matter.
          apparently their is a separate feature where files specific to our group
          can be stored.
          i have only just been reminded of this and will investigate
          how it is set up for access by members. probably it will be via a link.
          B

          B

          At 11:17 PM 12/30/00 +0900, you wrote:
          >Hi Barry,
          >
          >As I understand copyright law, older books fall into a different category
          >from new material and this is one reason why you see so many editions of
          >Mark Twain and Shakespeare on the net, and so few of Salinger and Tolkien.
          >The big boys are beyond caring, while the new fellas still need the buck.
          >
          >The Abremlin books I found contain "the complete and unaltered text of the
          >corresponding sections in the second (1900) edition published by John M.
          >Watkins, London."
          >
          >I doubt copyright infringement extends that far back (1900). Major nations
          >probably follow the Berne copyright convention-- in the USA, almost
          >everything created privately after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and
          >protected whether it has a notice or not-- but that is pretty damn recent as
          >far as these things go.
          >
          >As for being in the "public domain", texts are in the public domain if and
          >only if the owner explicitly puts it in the public domain *or* if the
          >creator has been dead for 50 years. Abramelin would fall into this latter
          >category.
          >
          >But your hesitation is warranty and clearly heard-- private posts only on
          >this one.
          >
          >-Chris
          >
          >
          >>chris--
          >>yikes!
          >>what is the source of these digital copies?
          >>are you sure you are not infringing copyright
          >> by offering to share such complete digital copies?
          >>
          >>while you might theoretically make them available
          >>by posting them on a free website
          >>and supplying members with a link,
          >>in my opinion
          >>this would be a questionable action--
          >>one the Sacredlandscapelist ought not
          >>support.
          >> it would be totally inappropriate for the SLlist or e-groups to
          >>host such an item without clarification of the copyright issue.
          >>
          >>perhaps interested persons
          >>could contact you personally by email
          >>
          >>B
          >>
          >>At 07:16 PM 12/29/00 +0900, you wrote:
          >>>I now have digital copies of the Abramelin books I,II and III for anyone
          who
          >>>would like them. Book III is the one that has the magic word squares if
          >>>you'd like to get a look. Me so happy!
          >>>
          >>>Barry, is there a way to upload it to the list archives so that others may
          >>>download it without sending it to everyone?
          >>>
          >>>-Chris
          >>>________________________________________________________________
          >>> ___
          >>> / __'. .-"""-.

          >>>
          >>> .-""-| | '.'. / .---. \
          >>> / .--. \ \___\ \/ /____| |
          >>> / / \ `-.-;-(`_),____.-'._
          >>> ; ; `.-" "-:_,(o:==..`-. '. .-"-,
          >>> | | / \ / `\ `. \ / .-. \
          >>> \ \ | Y __...\ \ \ / / \/
          >>>/\ | | | .--""--.| .-' \ '.`---' /
          >>>\ \ / / |` \' _...--.; '---'`
          >>> \ '-' / jgs /_..---.._ \ .'\\_ `.
          >>> `--'` .' (_) `'/ (_) /
          >>> `._ _.'| .'

          >>>
          >>> ``````` '-...--'`
          >>>________________________________________________________________
          >>>ICQ Number: 52195061
          >>>Rants/thoughts: http://www2.comco.ne.jp/~canuck/main.html
          >>>Myth Trivia: http://www2.comco.ne.jp/~canuck/trivia.html
          >>>________________________________________________________________
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • CG
          Hi Barry, ... Hotline ... As I said before, it is the complete and unaltered text of the corresponding sections in the second (1900) edition published by John
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 5, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Barry,

            >so it comes down to where did you get the copy

            Hotline

            >if it comes from a source other than the the
            >Dover edition you would be in the clear.

            As I said before, it is "the complete and unaltered text of the
            corresponding sections in the second (1900) edition published by John M.
            Watkins, London."
            No connection to Dover.

            >is your copy a text copy or scanned pages?

            It is in .pdf format.

            >text copies can be searched

            So can .pdf

            >Cat's husband, Siva expressed interest in seeing an
            >online copy and may contact you soon.

            It would be better for me if all concerned would contact me ASAP, so I can
            send one mass-mail since the file is large (about 1.5mb compressed) and a
            pain for me to send
            more than once.

            To wit:
            >at this time egroups has no mechanism for adding any material
            >to the list archive beyond the posts themselves.

            This would be the best bet for all concerned. Please let us know if this
            changes.

            Thanks,

            -Chris
          • Vincent Beall
            The text can be uploaded to the files section. Go to this link, click on upload file, select browse, select the file and upload it.
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 6, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              The text can be uploaded to the files section. Go to this link, click on
              upload file, select browse, select the file and upload it.

              http://www.egroups.com/files/sacredlandscapelist/


              Vincent




              ----- Original Message -----
              From: CG <canuck@...>
              To: <sacredlandscapelist@egroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 10:50 PM
              Subject: Re: [sl] CG/Abramelin


              > Hi Barry,
              >
              > >so it comes down to where did you get the copy
              >
              > Hotline
              >
              > >if it comes from a source other than the the
              > >Dover edition you would be in the clear.
              >
              > As I said before, it is "the complete and unaltered text of the
              > corresponding sections in the second (1900) edition published by John M.
              > Watkins, London."
              > No connection to Dover.
              >
              > >is your copy a text copy or scanned pages?
              >
              > It is in .pdf format.
              >
              > >text copies can be searched
              >
              > So can .pdf
              >
              > >Cat's husband, Siva expressed interest in seeing an
              > >online copy and may contact you soon.
              >
              > It would be better for me if all concerned would contact me ASAP, so I can
              > send one mass-mail since the file is large (about 1.5mb compressed) and a
              > pain for me to send
              > more than once.
              >
              > To wit:
              > >at this time egroups has no mechanism for adding any material
              > >to the list archive beyond the posts themselves.
              >
              > This would be the best bet for all concerned. Please let us know if this
              > changes.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > -Chris
              >
              >
              >
              > .
              > Please let us know if this
              > changes.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > -Chris
              >
              >
              >
              > .


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