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## Re: [sacredlandscapelist] Re: Sacread Space & Geometry & Tarot & Magic Octahedrons

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• To Leo Gilles Wonderful site you have, plenty of very interisting informantions, I look at your page http://trigrammaton.adahost.com and the way you deal with
Message 1 of 6 , Oct 2, 2000
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To Leo Gilles

Wonderful site you have, plenty of very interisting informantions, I look at
your page http://trigrammaton.adahost.com and the way you deal with the
attribuitons to the solar sings to the trigrans differ of mine, as you know
, there is lots of ways to assign the Zodiacal sings to the edges,in the
book amusements in mathematics, by H. E. Dudeney , on page 70 you can find
the problem n. 245- "Look here "said the professor to his colleague, "I have
been watching that fly on the octahedron, and it confines its walks entirely
to the edges. What can be its reason for avoiding the sides?"
"" Perhaps it is trying to solve some route problem", suggested the
other. "Supposing it to start from the top point, how many different routes
are there by which it may walk over all the edges, without ever doing twice
along the same edge in any route? The solution is "Though we cannot really
see all the sides of the octahedron at once, we can make a projection of it
..... And the number of different routes is just 1,488, counting the reverse
way of any route as different."

You wrote:

Could you elaborate on the edges you assign to "solely the Tarot
trumps"? Since I devised the Magic Octahedron, I follow your account
of the 12 edges as the signs, but you lost me with the interior
toothpicks and their attribution, as well as the 'non-elements'. What
exactly are these?
To see my own account of this octahedron, see the section
on 'Modelability of Trigrammaton'at the following:

Chris wrote:

Incidentally, I am justifying posting this here under the premise that
sacred landscapes are meaningful because they are places we communicate with
our gods, and that one of the things I have been trying to do is to
understand more fully how it is we communicate, i.e. what codes-- or
patterns if you prefer, are inherent/hidden in our language and lore.

It will be a pleasure if she let me use their words as mine. And, anyway,
what is a sacred space?

In the answer to Mr. Leo , I 'd like to start with the begning. so before
starting naming the faces, the edges ... I think about the primitives
qualities ( hot, cold, moist, dry) whith springs the four elements - Fire,
Water, Air and Earth- then i assign for each one of the four equilateral
triangles that make the octahedron one element and to the six corners the
six Zodiacal planets , begining with Saturn and finishing with the moon, so
i have three axis: Saturn - Moon, Jupiter - Mercury and Mars -Venus ( the
Sun in the center).

triangle 1 ( face n. 1) - Fire : Aries ( Saturn to Mars), Lion(Mars to
Jupiter) , Sagittarius (Saturn to Jupiter);

triangle 2 (face n. 2) - Water : Cancer ( Moon to Jupiter), Scorpio
Jupiter to Venus), Pisces ( Moon to Venus);

triangle 3 ( face n. 3)- Air : Libra ( Saturn to Venus), Aquarius ( Venus to
Mercury), Gemini ( Saturn to Mercury);

triangle 4 (face n. 4)- Earth : Capricornus ( Moon to Mercury), Taurus
Mercury to Mars), Virgo ( Moon to Venus).

When you join these four triangles to do the octahedron you get the eight
triangular faces of the solid, the four new triangular faces are made by one
edge of each triangle, as you have four triangles and only need three to do
a new face one element and its Zodiacal tripliciti is not presente in the
edges of that face, the tripliciti of this element is present in the
opposite face witch i call by the element, so the opposite face of the
element is the Non-element face. So we have:

Fire ( face 1) opposite Non-fire (face 8)

Water ( face 2) opposite Non-Water ( face 7)

Air ( face 3) opposite Non-Air ( face 6)

Earth ( face 4 ) opposite Non- Earth ( face 5 )

The numeration of the non-elements faces i get from the tradittion to give
the biggest add value to the opposite faces of the solids as you can find in
the hexahedrom ( Dice) where the opposite face always sum 7. In the other
hand, the order of the sings that i assing to the edges respect the Zodiacal
tradittion and the elements too : Fire with Aries the first cardinal , Water
with Cancer the second cardinal, Air with Libra the third cardinal and Earth
with Capricornus the fourth cardinal.

The new faces are:

Non-Fire (face 8 ) - Capricornus ( Moon - Mercury), Aquarius ( Venus -
Mercury), Piscis ( Moon - venus);

Non-Water ( face 7 ) - Aries ( Saturn - Mars), Taurus ( Mars - Mercury),
Gemini ( Saturn- Mercury);

Non-Air ( face 6 ) - Cancer ( Jupiter - Moon), Leo ( Jupiter - Mars), Virgo
( Moon - Mars);

Non-Earth ( face 5) - Libra ( Saturn - Venus), Scorpio ( Jupiter - Venus),
Sargittarius ( Saturn- Jupiter).

If you look the octahedron in a top view witch one corner in the center and
the others four corners doing a square you are going to have six squares one
for each planet:

Square of Saturn made by the faces : 1 - 3 - 5 - 7

Square of Jupiter made by the faces : 1 - 2 - 5 - 6

Square of Mars made by the faces : 1 - 4 - 6 - 7

Square of Venus made by the faces : 2 - 3 - 5 - 8

Square of Mercury made by the faces : 3 - 4 - 7 - 8

Square of Moon made by the faces : 2 - 4 - 6 - 8

You can note that the Venus Square is made by the numbers 2 - 3 - 5 - 8 this
sequence is the Fibonacci serie with originates the golden mean. In this
way we find the square of Venus give birth to the number of life and beauty,
I can imagine the others squares are significants too ( Saturn the odds,
Moon the evens, maybe Mars the ugly ...:).

The toothpicks i used because they are small wood sticks easy available, as
the octahedron is a 3 dimension object the complexity to visualise and
undertand the relationships are greater than a figure of 2 dimention. When
you add a dimention the complexity increase enormously. So i used the
toothpicks , temporaly, inside my octahedrom to facilitate the visualisation
of the Domus, their properties and relationships. Anyway, these lines are
there all the time, if you spin the octahedron in one vertice you can
visualise the line that join the opposites corners, or, if you submerge the
octahedron in water with soap, then you are going to see a formation of a
bubble inside constructing the eight Domus .

The edges that i solely assign to the Tarot trumps is the most delicate
issue and í quote Mike here "A lot of this is new to me , and I'm sill
fubling with how best to present it all". In first place I chose the Tarot
trumps because they are authentic simbols , that is, magical operations,
mentals, psychics and morals, wich risen notions , ideas, aspirations and
new feelings , with means they deserve one activity deeper than the study
and intectual explication.

So, what I'm going to put here come from my researchs, but I don't belive
they are 100% right, in this way I will appreciate any constructive
critisism, or verification of this stuff.

Sun - Saturn - XI - Lust

Sun - Jupiter - X - Fortune

Sun - Mars - XIII - Death

Sun -Venus - XII - The Hanged Man

Sun - Mercury - XV - The Devil

Sun - Moon -XIV - Art

Any help here? More Confusion? Both?

The follow I search in the net and I think is pertinent.

THE SYLPHS

While the sages said that the fourth class of elementals, or sylphs,
lived in the element of air, they meant by this not the natural
atmosphere of the earth, but the invisible, intangible, spiritual
medium -- an ethereal substance similar in composition to our
atmosphere of the earth, but far more subtle. In the last discourse of
Socrates, as preserved by Plato in his Phaedo, the condemned
philosopher says:

"And upon the earth are animals and men, some in a middle region,
others {elementals} dwelling about the air as we dwell about the sea;
others in islands which the air flows round, near the continent; and
in a word, the air is used by them as the water and sea are by us, and
the ether is to them what the air is to us. Moreover, the temperament
of their seasons is such that they have no disease {Paracelsus
disputes this}, and live much longer than we do, and have sight and
hearing and smell, and all the other senses, in far greater
perfection, in the same degree that air is purer than water or the
ether than air. Also they have temples and sacred places in which the
gods really dwell, and they hear their voices and receive their
answers, and are conscious of them and hold converse with them, and
they see the sun, moon, and stars as they really are, and their other
blessedness is of a piece with this." While the sylphs we believed to
live among the clouds and in the surrounding air, their true home was
upon the tops of mountains.

It is believed that the sylphs, salamanders, and nymphs had much to do
with the oracles of the ancients; that in fact they were the ones who
spoke from the depths of the earth and from the air above.

The sylphs sometimes assume human form, but apparently for only short
periods of time. Their size varies, but in the majority of cases they
are no larger than human beings and often considerably smaller. It is
said that the sylphs have accepted human beings into their communities
and have permitted them to live there for a considerable period; in
fact, Paracelsus wrote of such an incident, but of course it could not
have occurred while the human stranger was in his physical body.

By some the muses of the Greeks are said to have been sylphs, for
these spirits are said to gather around the mind of the dreamer, the
poet, and the artist, and inspire him with their intimate knowledge of
the beauties and workings of Nature. To the sylphs were given the
eastern corner of creation. Their temperament is mirthful, changeable,
and eccentric. The peculiar qualities common to men of genius are
supposedly the result of the cooperation of sylphs, whose aid also
brings with it the sylphic inconsistency. The sylphs labor with the
gases of the human body and indirectly with the nervous system, where
their inconstancy is again apparent. They have no fixed domicile, but
wander about from place to place -- elemental nomads ,invisible but
ever-present powers in the intelligent activity of the universe.

This is a good book on the Tarot
Anonymous
Meditations on the Tarot - A Journey Into Christian
Hermeticism
Amity House, New York, 1985, x + 658 pp, HB. First
edition. Fine in almost fine DJ. Now O/P and scarce. A
famous and acclaimed work of Christian esotericism,
which went through various French and German editions
before appearing in English. With the bookplate of Adam
McLean, that noted authority on alchemical and hermetic
symbolism.

Alexandre Weber
• ... Magic Octahedrons ... Alexander, Since your first language is obviously not English I am going to ask you to re-state what you mean by the statement if
Message 2 of 6 , Oct 2, 2000
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----------
>From: "Alexandre Weber" <weber@...>
>To: <sacredlandscapelist@egroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [sacredlandscapelist] Re: Sacread Space & Geometry & Tarot &
Magic Octahedrons
>Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2000, 4:30 PM
>

>Chris wrote:
>
>Incidentally, I am justifying posting this here under the premise that
>sacred landscapes are meaningful because they are places we communicate with
>our gods, and that one of the things I have been trying to do is to
>understand more fully how it is we communicate, i.e. what codes-- or
>patterns if you prefer, are inherent/hidden in our language and lore.
>
>It will be a pleasure if she let me use their words as mine. And, anyway,
>what is a sacred space?

Alexander,

Since your first language is obviously not English I am going to ask you to
re-state what you mean by the statement "if she let me use their words as
mine". As it is that is an undecipherable remark. If, however, you are
implying I used someone's words as my own, I suggest you reply to me off the
list.

As for what a "sacred space" is, I must assume you have some idea if you
have joined a list called "sacred landscape".

-Chris

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"Information wants to be free."
.....
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ICQ #: 52195061 / \ E-Mail: canuck@...
( o o )
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• ... I look at ... thanks for looking at the site the way you deal with the ... you know ... Yes there are numerous ways to layout 12 signs on the 12 edges.
Message 3 of 6 , Oct 2, 2000
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--- In sacredlandscapelist@egroups.com, "Alexandre Weber"
<weber@c...> wrote:
> To Leo Gilles
>
> Wonderful site you have, plenty of very interisting informantions,
I look at

thanks for looking at the site

the way you deal with the
> attribuitons to the solar sings to the trigrans differ of mine, as
you know
> , there is lots of ways to assign the Zodiacal sings to the edges,

Yes there are numerous ways to layout 12 signs on the 12 edges.
Remember though, I align these things by number first. The '4' edge
must be opposite the '8' edge, and so on for the 6 pairs of opposite
edges. Attributions to zodiac signs is a secondary consideration.
One could easily align the 12 signs with the edges such that the
polar opposite signs, Aries and Libra, Taurus and Scorpio, etc, lie
on opposite edges. The bonus here is that you can then trace a
single, 12-segmented line around the entire octahedron, never
repeating a segment, and arriving back where you started. I like that
arrangement too, but it doesn't fit with my numerical values of the
edges.

>
> You wrote:
>
> Could you elaborate on the edges you assign to "solely the Tarot
> trumps"? Since I devised the Magic Octahedron, I follow your account
> of the 12 edges as the signs, but you lost me with the interior
> toothpicks and their attribution, as well as the 'non-elements'.
What
> exactly are these?

> In the answer to Mr. Leo , I 'd like to start with the begning. so
before
> starting naming the faces, the edges ... I think about the
primitives
> qualities ( hot, cold, moist, dry) whith springs the four
elements - Fire,
> Water, Air and Earth- then i assign for each one of the four
equilateral
> triangles that make the octahedron one element and to the six
corners the
> six Zodiacal planets , begining with Saturn and finishing with the
moon, so
> i have three axis: Saturn - Moon, Jupiter - Mercury and Mars -Venus
( the
> Sun in the center).
>
> triangle 1 ( face n. 1) - Fire : Aries ( Saturn to Mars), Lion(Mars
to
> Jupiter) , Sagittarius (Saturn to Jupiter);
>
> triangle 2 (face n. 2) - Water : Cancer ( Moon to Jupiter), Scorpio
> Jupiter to Venus), Pisces ( Moon to Venus);
>
> triangle 3 ( face n. 3)- Air : Libra ( Saturn to Venus), Aquarius (
Venus to
> Mercury), Gemini ( Saturn to Mercury);
>
> triangle 4 (face n. 4)- Earth : Capricornus ( Moon to Mercury),
Taurus
> Mercury to Mars), Virgo ( Moon to Venus).
>
> When you join these four triangles to do the octahedron you get
the eight
> triangular faces of the solid, the four new triangular faces are
> edge of each triangle, as you have four triangles and only need
three to do
> a new face one element and its Zodiacal tripliciti is not presente
in the
> edges of that face, the tripliciti of this element is present in
the
> opposite face witch i call by the element, so the opposite face of
the
> element is the Non-element face.

Okay, I get it now, the opposite face from an Elemental face has
three signs for the edges, none of which are that Element. That's a
neat arrangement. I was just confused by the term 'non-element'.

> So we have:
>
> Fire ( face 1) opposite Non-fire (face 8)
>
> Water ( face 2) opposite Non-Water ( face 7)
>
> Air ( face 3) opposite Non-Air ( face 6)
>
> Earth ( face 4 ) opposite Non- Earth ( face 5 )
>
> The new faces are:
>
> Non-Fire (face 8 ) - Capricornus ( Moon - Mercury), Aquarius (
Venus -
> Mercury), Piscis ( Moon - venus);
>
> Non-Water ( face 7 ) - Aries ( Saturn - Mars), Taurus ( Mars -
Mercury),
> Gemini ( Saturn- Mercury);
>
> Non-Air ( face 6 ) - Cancer ( Jupiter - Moon), Leo ( Jupiter -
Mars), Virgo
> ( Moon - Mars);
>
> Non-Earth ( face 5) - Libra ( Saturn - Venus), Scorpio ( Jupiter -
Venus),
> Sargittarius ( Saturn- Jupiter).
>
> If you look the octahedron in a top view witch one corner in the
center and
> the others four corners doing a square you are going to have six
squares one
> for each planet:
>
> Square of Saturn made by the faces : 1 - 3 - 5 - 7
>
> Square of Jupiter made by the faces : 1 - 2 - 5 - 6
>
> Square of Mars made by the faces : 1 - 4 - 6 - 7
>
> Square of Venus made by the faces : 2 - 3 - 5 - 8
>
> Square of Mercury made by the faces : 3 - 4 - 7 - 8
>
> Square of Moon made by the faces : 2 - 4 - 6 - 8
>

I'd have to say that these numbers don't mean a whole lot, since you
arbitrarily numbered the faces to begin with. You might just as well
have given the faces the names of the 6 colors of the spectrum, (with
green in the center, I suppose)

> if you spin the octahedron in one vertice you can
> visualise the line that join the opposites corners, or, if you
submerge the
> octahedron in water with soap, then you are going to see a
formation of a
> bubble inside constructing the eight Domus .

I like the soap-bubble idea. I have a Zometool that is really good
for making bubbles inside of geometric figures. You might want to get
one of these; they're sturdier than toothpicks. Search the web
for 'zometool', if you're interested.

>
> The edges that i solely assign to the Tarot trumps is the most
delicate
> issue
(snipped)
> So, what I'm going to put here come from my researchs, but I don't
> belive
> they are 100% right, in this way I will appreciate any constructive
> critisism, or verification of this stuff.
>
> Sun - Saturn - XI - Lust
>
> Sun - Jupiter - X - Fortune
>
> Sun - Mars - XIII - Death
>
> Sun -Venus - XII - The Hanged Man
>
> Sun - Mercury - XV - The Devil
>
> Sun - Moon -XIV - Art
>
>
> Any help here? More Confusion? Both?
>
> Alexandre Weber

Well, you COULD just use the planetary cards of the Tarot for this,
although I suppose that they are more rightly placed on the six
corners, and the center. You seem to have used a more free-
associative scheme. Whatever helps you to utilize these symbols is
certainly valid. One note though; if you wanted to be a 'completist',
it would seem that you could use 12 Tarot cards for the edges, 6 for
the interior lines, for a total of 18, leaving you 4 trumps left
over; the Sun in the center, and the 3 Elements (Fool, Hanged Man,
Judgment) as representatives of the three major axes of the figure.
Just an idea.

LITL
R.Leo Gillis
• Thanks to all for the kindly comments and help in my research, first I d like to apologize for my English mistakes. I was trying to say when I quote Chris I
Message 4 of 6 , Dec 2, 2000
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Thanks to all for the kindly comments and help in my research, first I'd
like to apologize for my English mistakes. I was trying to say when I quote
Chris "I use someone's words as mine" and not what I wrote , I think many
ortographics errors won't occurs if my editor could be set to correct the
English language, but for a reason I didn't discover yet, I can't change
from Portuguese to English.

On the other hand, i'd like to put my two cents in the issue of crystals,
specially the ones with octahedron's structure. The most remarkable is the
Diamond with very particular features, the information was gathered at :

http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/elements/diamond/diamond.htm

>Diamond is the ultimate gemstone, having few weaknesses and many strengths.
It is well known that Diamond is the hardest substance found in nature, but
few people realize that Diamond is four times harder than the next hardest
natural mineral, corundum (sapphire and ruby).

>In terms of it's physical properties, diamond is the ultimate mineral in
several ways:

>Hardness: Diamond is a perfect "10", defining the top of the hardness
scale.

>Clarity: Diamond is transparent over a larger range of wavelengths (from
the ultraviolet into the far infrared) than is any other substance

>Thermal Conductivity: Diamond conducts heat better than anything - five
times better than the second best element, Silver!

>Melting Point: Diamond has the highest melting point (3820 degrees Kelvin)!

>Lattice Density: The atoms of Diamond are packed closer together than are
the atoms of any other substance! Diamond is a polymorph of the element
carbon.

>Graphite is another polymorph. The two share the same chemistry, carbon,
but have very different structures and properties. Diamond is hard, Graphite
is soft (the "lead" of a pencil). Diamond is an excellent electrical
insulator, Graphite is a good conductor of electricity. Diamond is the
ultimate abrasive, Graphite is a very good lubricant. Diamond is
transparent, Graphite is opaque. Diamond crystallizes in the Isometric
system and graphite crystallizes in the hexagonal system.

>Somewhat of a surprise is that at surface temperatures and pressures,
Graphite is the stable form of carbon. In fact, all diamonds at or near the
surface of the Earth are currently undergoing a transformation into
Graphite. This reaction, fortunately, is extremely slow.

>Crystal Habits include isometric forms such as cubes and octahedrons,
twinning is also seen.

Another fact that cath my attencion in the crystal's issue is the way deep
earthquakes occurs, the main reason are the change of the crystals of
Olivin by the action of hight temperature and pressure in Espinelio and
then in Peroviskite with crystallizes in isometric way forming an octahedron
crystal. Deep earthquakes can promoting great changes in earth surfaces.

As Man is a Carbon based life form, i'm going to make some very
speculative's hipotesis, so this post is a continuation to some ideas (the
Domus, Elemental, Zodiacal and Tarot attributions ) which may, if ultimately
found to be valid, offer useful new perspectives on the practical use of the
octahedron as a vehicle of the Sacred, a means of reaching the ONE behind
appearances.

hypothesis one: The use of the octahedron as a vehicle can make changes in
our brain, in the memory's crystal protein and in the way we think;

hypothesis two: This changes can be benefited from the properties of the
octahedron's form;

hypothesis three: Fron this changes and new powers anyone can reach
directely the Sacred and the One.

It isn't a easy task, but what is the purpose of a Sacred Place anyway?

Of course I can't elaborate all of this by myself, so I will drain from ALL
others fonts I could find, and specially from the posts of this list and
put a salt here and there .

About hypothesis one, i will start with a strange property of the human
perception that is easely checked by anyone: The maximum number of things
that can be perceived by human mind , easely at the same time , without
reasoning is Six, so when i constructed the domus inside the octahedron i
put six things in a special way of correlation [ three Tarot trumps and
three Zodiacal signs] and in a easy way of perception. so at least i made a
mnemonic artifact, similar to the ones finded in the book The Art of Memory
by Frances Yates, with eight Domus ( or Loci).

Now i will quote (my translation from Portuguese) from a article of
Nature's Magasine august/2000 - Karin Nader et all:"The memorys are keep in
a extremely instable chemical soup. The files , until now have as stables,
are, by the new theory, like delicade crystals (protein crystals) ,
modificated or broken with facilty.... They say that the long time memory
is what the chemists call Labile, that mens instable. Worst than that, it
deserves to be rebuilted. In this way, each time one thing is remembered
can't be simplesly returned to the memory file. It must be rewrited in the
chemical code used by the brain. Also clain , a traumatic memory could
be reactivate by a specialist and begin instable."

So as the Human body and the Diamond are made with Carbon ( this is the
new name for the element Earth from the alchemists) and when the Earth get
a octahedron shape it starts a transformation , make sense for me, to build
Sacred Spaces, like cathedrals [ Rene Guenon speak about 'Fundation Stone'
and 'Temple Sstone" ] , temples, ring, the Domus ( as i set in the previous
post , inside a octahedron totally interconected, with the external edges
assingns to the Zodiacal sings, and the internal ones to the Tarot Trumps -
see the new three atributions to the numbers of the faces) resambling a
octahedron
shape and make possible the identification of the humam mind, by meditation
or a ritual, with the form. So by similarity the many strenghts of the
octahedron's form could be assimilated ( or any other intrinsec operation)
for our body, mind, soul, spirit, DNA, memory's protein,etc... and a
transformation is made possible - simbolical death, ressurection,
enlightment, etc... - . Of course, this is the most delicate issue of the
argumentation, this is a internal body work .

At the end i will post some articles i get in a Caos Astrological Site that
corroborate to this argumentation. I feell that Fractal, atractors, Caos
are Key words in this domain.

By the way, the four non-elements faces of the octahedron, can be easely
associatade with the four seasons by the zodiacal singns assigned to the
edges, in this way we have:

Spring - Aries , Taurus, Gemini; - no-water face #1 opposite water face #8

Summer - Cancer, Leo, Virgo; - no-air face #2 opposite air face #7

Fall - Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius; - no-earth face #3 opposite earth #6

Winter - Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces; - no-fire face #4 opposite fire #5

This make a second manner to numerate the faces of the octahedron, the first
i use was numbering the faces have in count the Elements - Fire #1 ,Water
#2 , Air #3, Earth #4, the opposite faces are no-earth # 5 , no-air #6,
no-water # 7,no-earth #8. This disposition observes the Zodiacal order of
appearence of the Sings of the Zodiac Fire - Aries, Water - Cancer, Air -
Libra, Earth - Capricorn.
But , both systems of numeration when put in the natural order of the
numbers, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8., lack in dianamic, so I think in a third order:

Spring no-water face #1 opposite water face #2

Summer no-air face #3 opposite air face #4

Fall no-earth face #5 opposite earth face #6

Winter no-fire face #7 opposite fire face #8

All the three dispositions make some kind of compromiss, so all are
necessary in the understand about the meditations in the octahedron.

In the internal edges of the octahedron from the center to the vertices, i
made i mistake when i assigned the Trumps XI and XII, the correct
dispositions are:

Sun - Jupiter - card X Fortune

Sun- Venus - card XI Lust

Sun - Saturn - card XII Hanged Man

Sun - Mars - card XIII The Death

Sun - Moon - card XIV The Temperance

Sun - Mercury - card XV The Devil

But the Tarot Trumps are 21 plus the Fool which is the wanderer, as i used
only six cards i find i can use all the cards and make three sets of six ,
three first with the others eighting, in this way the three firsts are the
dispositors of the others 18 and meaning the Divine - Human - Material or
other correlatives three conections. In this way i'm going to have :

Card I ruler of cards 4,5,6,7,8,9

Card II ruler of cards 10.11.12.13, 14, 15

Card III ruler of cards 16,17,18,19, 20,21

This let me with three sets of cards to put in the internal edegs of the
octahedron as i have three dispositions to the faces I get 72 places or God
names to meditate or locate mnemonic things - 3x3=9 9x8= 72. Al of
this locate in a simple and elegant way.

I think with these last considerations i fulfill the goal of the three
hipotesis.

Apologies for the disorder. This post contains supporting material that
has yet to be properly organised - mostly extracts from other published
sources.

Extracts of others posts and some comments:

"Of the infinite forms we must select the most beautiful, if we are to
proceed in due order, and any one who can point out a more beautiful form
than ours for the construction of these bodies, shall carry off the palm,
not as an enemy, but as a friend."

"Alas, when will Time cease its flight and allow this flow to rest?
Forms, divine and perennial forms which only wait for rest in order to
reappear! Oh when, in what night, will you crystalize again?

"Paradise must always be re-created. It is not in some remote Thule; it
lingers under the appearance. Everything holds within itself, as
potentiality, the intimate harmony of its being--just as every salt holds
within itself the archetype of its crystal. And a time of silent night
will come when the water will descend, more dense; then, in the
unperturbed abysses, the secret crystals will bloom...Everything strives
towards it's lost form..."--

-- Andre Gide, Le Traite du Narcisse

*>>'The Coronation Chair, distinct from the throne containing
the Stone of Scone is placed over a precise part of a large mandala made of
coloured stone called the Cosmati Pavement. This is now covered by carpet to
protect [hide?] it. The king, as 'is the case also with Royal bridegrooms,
has two "Supporters" as does the sacred king while undergoing his ritual
death. It is hard to tell if anyone now involved in the Rite has any idea
what they're actually doing or why. I'm sure it would not occur to the
officiating clergy that they are practising Witchcraft in its purest
form!'MIKE

*>>"I want to address the story of Moses and his rod. My take on this is
from the mythological side. For example, Joseph Campbell writes:

*>>Take the story of the Buddha beneath the Tree of Enlightenment. The
Buddha sat in what is called the "Immovable Spot" and a demon called
"kama-mara" approached to threaten him. This demon is known as the Creator
of World Illusion, but his name translates more directly as "fear of death,
desire of
life". As the demon approached, the Buddha touched the earth and the Earth
Goddess reared forth from the ground and roared a thousand mad roars
terrifying the demon and causing him to flee. That night the Buddha
achieved enlightenment and sat in that spot for seven days and seven nights
at which time a terrible tempest was brewing. To prevent the Buddha from
being disturbed, the Serpent King "Muchalinda" came and enveloped him seven
times in the coils of his folds and succeeded in protecting him.
Graves says that in those days conception was attributed to the wind, hence
the North Wind and Eurynome conceive the Universal Egg together. He goes on
to say that often winds were depicted with serpent tails. Campbell equally
says that when pictures were made of the unpicturable god it was in the form
of a god with serpent legs.

*>>The Sumerian name of Eurynome is Iahu and means "exalted dove", this is
the same dove that is later attributed to Jehovah as creator. CG

Shadows from a Sun Projection -"exalted dove", -

Everybody can find a shadow of dove or their shape in the sun projection of
the shadow and penumbra of a octahedron in a flat surface. It take sometime
to find it because the patterns that appear change with the position and the
height of the solid from the plane (I suggest for the ones who are trying to
find then, to use
an octahedron with edges with the sise of approximately 32 mm and whithout
spheres in the vertices, my own is made in iron so it can drop and not
broken). As a plus, you can find in this projections some of the figures
made by Giordano Bruno too (Articuli adversus mathematicos) in their Book Of
Sahadows. This is a idea i had spent few years ago in a post in this e-list,
but at that time i didn't read Frances Yates book The Art of Memory. As a
matter of fact, i have found correlations with the chakras and tattwas ,
specially the 4 and 4A.

Neural Networks
If our brains have the power to transform our reality, then the trick is to
learn how to re-format the brain. The aspect of the brain which is of
primary importance here is its ability to self-organise multiple arrays of
data and modify that data according to new experience (the ability to
learn). How does it do that? We don't have the full answers yet, but we do
know that the neural connections in our brains change as a result of
learning (forming features out of apparently random data), and that these
interconnections grow stronger in the direction of whatever it is we are
learning (a habit is simply the creation of a neural network of feedback
loops - the more you do it, the easier it is to do, and the more likely it
becomes that you will do it again). In the brain, as in a computer, any
computation requires input, process and output. In terms of real-world
complexity, this output is continually feeding back to us in the form of a
recurrent loop or attractor: the dialog is a two-way interactive
transmission - fusion. Feedback loops (awareness?) carry information into
the future.
The Future Exists
First in the Imagination,
Then Will

Mind Over Matter?
Karl Pribram, originator of the 'Holographic Theory of the Brain', suggests
that 'there exists in the cortex a multidimensional holographic-like process
serving as an attractor or set point toward which (behaviour) operate(s) to
achieve a specified environmental result'. In other words, what the mind
conceives it tends to create. The 'resonance' between sensorial input and
the brain is akin to a process of setting up 'resonance' between ourselves
(as inputting) and our selection. The brain's electric impulses, ever
transforming, attract to us what we think about all the time - because our
thoughts are what we are constantly acting out of and upon. The more
mentally focussed we are on an outcome, and the more material conditions we
put into place, the more likely it is that that outcome will manifest.
New concepts are new realities. In terms of physical neuro-chemical
activity, your thoughts and emotions are directly linked to the production
of neuro-transmitters which produce chemical reactions (physical changes) in
the brain. There is considerable (incontrovertible) evidence as well that
this process doesn't stop with the brain - thoughts and emotional states
(psychological modalities) have the power to produce dramatic changes in the
body. The so-called 'placebo effect' is probably the most significant
example of this 'mind over matter' phenomenon: When control groups are given
inert substances and told that they are receiving the actual treatment,
their bodies respond as if they were receiving the real drug.

Setting up Resonance
The wearing of gemstones as amulets has a long tradition. Jyotish, the
astrology of the Hindus, utilises the wearing of gems as a method for making
adjustments to 'planetary energies', aparently rendering them either less
harmful or more beneficial to the wearer. This may have some basis in fact.
If you think about it, everything you experience as 'reality' (including
your body and mind) is a 'dance of particles'. Our minds and bodies, as
atomic processes, are just as open to one influence as any other. In theory
(and it seems in practice), gems could act as 'concrete connections' (and
starting points for the 'butterfy effect') for the mind and matter: Whatever
we perceive we act upon (placebo) [What the Thinker Thinks, the Prover
Proves - RAW]. By wearing a gem (or amulet, or by performing a meaningful
gesture or ritual) we mentally focuss on the object/gesture's
properties/qualities and consciously or unconsiously reinforce those
qualities in our lives. The effect is very subtle, but the vibratory
qualities of thoughts set up self-similar resonances (instantaneous transfer
and interaction of information) in our own being and throughout the Whole.

The Planets of Astrology represent attractors in a system of irreducible
concepts which, when expanded and combined with reasoning, offer credible
solutions to almost any matter.
Chaos Creates Information
To write any horoscope is to attempt to characterize the vast attractors.
The System of Astrology is limitless... Astrology is a Database. Astrology
is a symbolic language of infinite structure. Astrology is a 'transpersonal
meme complex'. Astrology is a 'random knowledge generator'. Astrology is a
structured approach to creativity. Astrology is as creative as you want it
to be.

Chaos Creates Infinite Possibilities
The matrix below is one of my own thought tools. It's not meant to be read
so much as contemplated and acted on over time within the context of your
personal circumstances and planetary patterns.
You are invited to consult it when in need of stimulation or inspiration
for your inner explorations and outer goals. I tend to employ the strategies
in terms of natal aspects, progressions and transits. But they may be
applied to any planetary pattern, including synastry combinations, as
re-minders and affirmations of what you want to achieve.

'Creative Complexification'
The 'unlikely' juxtaposition of ideas can make conscious the different
perspectives you can take when considering a problem. You begin to look at
the problem in a new way; freeing up elements to create new associations,
new thought-forms and new solutions. It's the imaginative interaction of the
reader with the symbols that brings about the process of Attraction and
Emergence.

'Nature conforms to herself'...

and using , another time, someone's words
i want to express my gratitude
for book suggestions
and for the excellent interesting posts.

Alexandre Weber

In the presence of so many speculations, one more may not offend.
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