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Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

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  • vidofanti@gmail.com
    Vho Alvin You forgot Blue Hills College in Midrand . Ever since I took my boy out of Sedaven , he is doing very well educationally and spiritually in Blue
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
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      Vho Alvin

      You forgot Blue Hills College in Midrand . Ever since I took my boy out of Sedaven , he is doing very well educationally and spiritually in Blue Hills . The school is growing but they are doing very well with our kids. They are trying their best to instill holy discipline .

      P.S the school was started and is managed by Zimbambweans. Maybe that is where is the difference lies. No offence to us South Africans but Vho Alvin is right.

      Regards,
      Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

      From: Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...>
      Sender: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:10:26 +0200
      To: <sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

       

      Sa-sda
       
      As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.
       
      I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.
      Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)
      I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.
       
      My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.
       
      Regards
      Alvin
    • almasarira@gmail.com
      Vido. I know Blue Hills and that it was a private initiative. My worry is that there are no church schools at conference or Union level. Church schools
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
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        Vido.
        I know Blue Hills and that it was a private initiative. My worry is that there are no church schools at conference or Union level. Church schools should always be seen as part of an overall evangelism strategy.
        As a matter of fact each local church or district should have a school or at least a pre-school. A school gets us in constant contact with the families where the kids come from. If we run schools we also become more relevant in society, we sit in community forums, we become known by local authorities, which opens doors in other areas.
        Regards
        Alvin
        Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

        From: vidofanti@...
        Sender: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:52:30 +0000
        To: <sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

         

        Vho Alvin

        You forgot Blue Hills College in Midrand . Ever since I took my boy out of Sedaven , he is doing very well educationally and spiritually in Blue Hills . The school is growing but they are doing very well with our kids. They are trying their best to instill holy discipline .

        P.S the school was started and is managed by Zimbambweans. Maybe that is where is the difference lies. No offence to us South Africans but Vho Alvin is right.

        Regards,

        Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

        From: Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...>
        Sender: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:10:26 +0200
        To: <sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

         

        Sa-sda
         
        As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.
         
        I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.
        Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)
        I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.
         
        My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.
         
        Regards
        Alvin
      • online1026963@telkomsa.net
        I regret the post script part of your presentation Vido as it seems to be based on localised observation other than broad based comparison of what Adventists
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
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          I regret the post script part of your presentation Vido as it seems to be based on localised observation other than broad based comparison of what Adventists are trying to do elsewhere. I also appreciate the correction that Alvin makes and wish to add the following:

           

          Durban Central Church (not blowing my own horn) has a Preschool which is doing phenomenal work in evangelism. As a result of this, part of the membership of the church is composed of parents that have been brought into the knowledge of Christ by learners from “Little Disciples” – the name of the Preschool. One such parent was actually drawn by her daughter who, after dressing up to go to church one Sabbath morning, begged her mother to “come to my church mommy”. “People there do not make noise and throw themselves down and faint”. “Please come to my church mommy”. When the mother ultimately acquiesced to the exhortation of the little one, from then she has never looked back. Glory to God!

           

          Little Disciples is a feeder to Kietsleigh Primary School in the property adjoining the church. Every year we often find ourselves embarrassed to turn away learners because there is no more space. The principal Mrs Robinson, often wants to put desks on top of the roof every year because of the high demand for Adventist education in that part of the country. Praise be His name!

           

          Adjacent to the school is a small park for which many attempts have been made but unsuccessfully to convince the local authority to give it to the school for the expansion of the school. Pray for us so that we can grow the school to at least a secondary school if not high school  when the Lord ultimately gives us this small community park.

           

          Advent Hope in deep rural Hluhluwe, in the middle of western Zululand, faces a similar challenge where the communities are demanding for more of what the school is offering. Of course the devil is not relenting. The more evangelism grows the more angry the devil becomes.

           

          I have no knowledge of Blue Hills and Sedaven. What I am consciously aware of is that the Lord continues to bless Little Disciples and Kietsleigh Primary School and parents, especially non-Adventists are always crying out for much more than we can afford.

           

          BK

           

          From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of almasarira@...
          Sent: 04 January 2012 10:39 PM
          To: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

           

           

          Vido.
          I know Blue Hills and that it was a private initiative. My worry is that there are no church schools at conference or Union level. Church schools should always be seen as part of an overall evangelism strategy.
          As a matter of fact each local church or district should have a school or at least a pre-school. A school gets us in constant contact with the families where the kids come from. If we run schools we also become more relevant in society, we sit in community forums, we become known by local authorities, which opens doors in other areas.
          Regards
          Alvin

          Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device


          Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:52:30 +0000

          Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

           

           

          Vho Alvin

          You forgot Blue Hills College in Midrand . Ever since I took my boy out of Sedaven , he is doing very well educationally and spiritually in Blue Hills . The school is growing but they are doing very well with our kids. They are trying their best to instill holy discipline .

          P.S the school was started and is managed by Zimbambweans. Maybe that is where is the difference lies. No offence to us South Africans but Vho Alvin is right.

          Regards,

          Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!


          From: Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...>

          Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:10:26 +0200

          Subject: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

           

           

          Sa-sda

           

          As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

           

          I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

          Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

          I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

           

          My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

           

          Regards

          Alvin

        • vidofanti@gmail.com
          Vho Alvin I did not notice that you said church,conference or Union schools. I get you now. Baba wam BK, you are right I was thinking locally and places I know
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
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            Vho Alvin

            I did not notice that you said church,conference or Union schools. I get you now.

            Baba wam BK, you are right I was thinking locally and places I know like Eastern Cape. I know 2 brothers and one sister who had an initiative to start a school in the EC but they wanted nothing to do with the church or conference based on the history of schools in EC that were linked with the conference. I guess DBN central is one shining example and am aware of those successes . I will continue praying for your continued endeavours in evangelism.

            Regards,

            Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

            From: "online1026963@..." <nosibonga.k@...>
            Sender: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 23:46:55 +0200
            To: <sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>
            ReplyTo: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

             

            I regret the post script part of your presentation Vido as it seems to be based on localised observation other than broad based comparison of what Adventists are trying to do elsewhere. I also appreciate the correction that Alvin makes and wish to add the following:

             

            Durban Central Church (not blowing my own horn) has a Preschool which is doing phenomenal work in evangelism. As a result of this, part of the membership of the church is composed of parents that have been brought into the knowledge of Christ by learners from “Little Disciples” – the name of the Preschool. One such parent was actually drawn by her daughter who, after dressing up to go to church one Sabbath morning, begged her mother to “come to my church mommy”. “People there do not make noise and throw themselves down and faint”. “Please come to my church mommy”. When the mother ultimately acquiesced to the exhortation of the little one, from then she has never looked back. Glory to God!

             

            Little Disciples is a feeder to Kietsleigh Primary School in the property adjoining the church. Every year we often find ourselves embarrassed to turn away learners because there is no more space. The principal Mrs Robinson, often wants to put desks on top of the roof every year because of the high demand for Adventist education in that part of the country. Praise be His name!

             

            Adjacent to the school is a small park for which many attempts have been made but unsuccessfully to convince the local authority to give it to the school for the expansion of the school. Pray for us so that we can grow the school to at least a secondary school if not high school  when the Lord ultimately gives us this small community park.

             

            Advent Hope in deep rural Hluhluwe, in the middle of western Zululand, faces a similar challenge where the communities are demanding for more of what the school is offering. Of course the devil is not relenting. The more evangelism grows the more angry the devil becomes.

             

            I have no knowledge of Blue Hills and Sedaven. What I am consciously aware of is that the Lord continues to bless Little Disciples and Kietsleigh Primary School and parents, especially non-Adventists are always crying out for much more than we can afford.

             

            BK

             

            From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of almasarira@...
            Sent: 04 January 2012 10:39 PM
            To: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

             

             

            Vido.
            I know Blue Hills and that it was a private initiative. My worry is that there are no church schools at conference or Union level. Church schools should always be seen as part of an overall evangelism strategy.
            As a matter of fact each local church or district should have a school or at least a pre-school. A school gets us in constant contact with the families where the kids come from. If we run schools we also become more relevant in society, we sit in community forums, we become known by local authorities, which opens doors in other areas.
            Regards
            Alvin

            Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device


            Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:52:30 +0000

            Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

             

             

            Vho Alvin

            You forgot Blue Hills College in Midrand . Ever since I took my boy out of Sedaven , he is doing very well educationally and spiritually in Blue Hills . The school is growing but they are doing very well with our kids. They are trying their best to instill holy discipline .

            P.S the school was started and is managed by Zimbambweans. Maybe that is where is the difference lies. No offence to us South Africans but Vho Alvin is right.

            Regards,

            Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!


            From: Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...>

            Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:10:26 +0200

            Subject: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

             

             

            Sa-sda

             

            As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

             

            I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

            Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

            I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

             

            My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

             

            Regards

            Alvin

          • Patrick Matabeni
            Bro Alvin, It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze s research base about our schools. I think my major interest is in the development
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 5, 2012
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              Bro Alvin, 
              It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

              I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

              Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia...our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

              I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

              the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

              Amen!!

              Patrick Matabeni 


              On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:
               

              Sa-sda
               
              As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.
               
              I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.
              Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)
              I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.
               
              My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.
               
              Regards
              Alvin


            • Xhonxa, N. (Nicholas)
              Bro Alvin & Bro Pat I have read to emails with interest and yes the points that you re raising are relevant. My mother (some of you might know her) has worked
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
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                Bro Alvin & Bro Pat

                 

                I have read to emails with interest and yes the points that you’re raising are relevant.

                My mother (some of you might know her) has worked for the church (teaching) for more than 20years. I sat down with her last years asking about the very same issue:

                The response I got was disappointing and yes worrying: our conferences are no longer promoting importance of Christian Education and there’s no leadership will to redevelop our schools instead they were handed over to government.

                 

                One thing she mentioned was the issue of evangelism: SDA schools used to feed local churches with souls (students who met the truth when they attended SDA Schools).

                I support the call for US as BLACK PARENTS to stand up and to something about our education.

                 

                Regards;

                NX

                 

                From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni
                Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM
                To: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                 

                 

                Bro Alvin, 

                It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

                 

                I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

                 

                Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia...our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

                 

                I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

                 

                the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

                 

                Amen!!

                 

                Patrick Matabeni 

                 

                 

                On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:

                 

                Sa-sda

                 

                As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                 

                I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

                Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

                I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                 

                My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                 

                Regards

                Alvin

                 


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              • motsamai molefe
                radical as always but true. many of the failures of many institutions, particularly black, are socially engineered. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
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                  radical as always but true. many of the failures of many institutions, particularly black, are socially engineered.


                  Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                  From: Patrick Matabeni <mrpat.mata@...>;
                  To: <sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>;
                  Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...
                  Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 7:51:55 AM

                   

                  Bro Alvin, 

                  It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

                  I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

                  Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia...our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

                  I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

                  the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

                  Amen!!

                  Patrick Matabeni 


                  On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:
                   

                  Sa-sda
                   
                  As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.
                   
                  I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.
                  Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)
                  I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.
                   
                  My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.
                   
                  Regards
                  Alvin


                • Kenneth Mathye
                  Good day brothers and sisters, The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
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                    Good day brothers and sisters,

                     

                    The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a crèche owned by an Adventist lady. I was shocked when I became an Adventist that the lady was also an Adventist. What shocked me was that in that crèche there was not even a single child from the Adventist community. Then the graduation came and the head elder was invited as a guest speaker. He was shocked to see what the lady was doing. Some of the parents of those kids are Adventist today.

                     

                    Unfortunately the allergy is not only in education but business as well. I rather go and by from Van der Merwe than from Simayi. A sad mentality indeed.

                     

                    From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni
                    Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM
                    To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                     

                     

                    Bro Alvin, 

                    It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

                     

                    I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

                     

                    Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia..our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

                     

                    I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

                     

                    the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

                     

                    Amen!!

                     

                    Patrick Matabeni 

                     

                     

                    On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:

                     

                    Sa-sda

                     

                    As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                     

                    I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

                    Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

                    I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                     

                    My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                     

                    Regards

                    Alvin

                     

                     


                    I'm part of the 49Million initiative.

                    http://www.49Million.co.za  

                    NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice

                     

                     

                  • nosibonga.k@telkomsa.net
                    Kenn, Yeah Yeah Yeah!!!!!! Those who sell books can tell you shocking stories on this one. Yeah! Right on the bull eye. BK Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
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                      Kenn, Yeah Yeah Yeah!!!!!! Those who sell books can tell you shocking stories on this one. Yeah! Right on the bull'eye. BK
                      Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

                      From: Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...>
                      Sender: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:01:54 +0000
                      To: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com<sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>
                      ReplyTo: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                       

                      Good day brothers and sisters,

                       

                      The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a crèche owned by an Adventist lady. I was shocked when I became an Adventist that the lady was also an Adventist. What shocked me was that in that crèche there was not even a single child from the Adventist community. Then the graduation came and the head elder was invited as a guest speaker. He was shocked to see what the lady was doing. Some of the parents of those kids are Adventist today.

                       

                      Unfortunately the allergy is not only in education but business as well. I rather go and by from Van der Merwe than from Simayi. A sad mentality indeed.

                       

                      From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni
                      Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM
                      To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                       

                       

                      Bro Alvin, 

                      It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

                       

                      I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

                       

                      Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia..our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

                       

                      I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

                       

                      the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

                       

                      Amen!!

                       

                      Patrick Matabeni 

                       

                       

                      On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:

                       

                      Sa-sda

                       

                      As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                       

                      I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

                      Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

                      I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                       

                      My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                       

                      Regards

                      Alvin

                       

                       


                      I'm part of the 49Million initiative.

                      http://www.49Million.co.za  

                      NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice

                       

                       

                    • Patrick Matabeni
                      So true Kenny... I even ask myself why the GC always sells us Mark Finely s books...we are buying and distributing millions of books by Mark Finely of which
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
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                        So true Kenny...

                        I even ask myself why the GC always sells us Mark Finely's books...we are buying and distributing millions of books by Mark Finely of which I'm sure that some of the proceeds will go his foundation. is it that we don't have black writers in our church? 

                        Bishop Josh, Elder Thula Nkosi, Ps Papu, Dr Gwala, etc...why can't these guys write books on "christianizing the african" or whatever topic...and then we buy and distribute those books to our own people. For that matter, some of the text in these books are irrelevant to our circumstances.

                        I want to distribute Ps Papu/Dr Gwala/Ps Josh/etc's books...and further have different language editions...Xhosa, English, Sotho, Zulu, Vhenda, etc.   

                        On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...> wrote:
                         

                        Good day brothers and sisters,

                         

                        The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a crèche owned by an Adventist lady. I was shocked when I became an Adventist that the lady was also an Adventist. What shocked me was that in that crèche there was not even a single child from the Adventist community. Then the graduation came and the head elder was invited as a guest speaker. He was shocked to see what the lady was doing. Some of the parents of those kids are Adventist today.

                         

                        Unfortunately the allergy is not only in education but business as well. I rather go and by from Van der Merwe than from Simayi. A sad mentality indeed.

                         

                        From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni


                        Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM
                        To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com

                        Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                         

                         

                        Bro Alvin, 

                        It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

                         

                        I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

                         

                        Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia..our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

                         

                        I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

                         

                        the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

                         

                        Amen!!

                         

                        Patrick Matabeni 

                         

                         

                        On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:

                         

                        Sa-sda

                         

                        As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                         

                        I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

                        Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

                        I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                         

                        My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                         

                        Regards

                        Alvin

                         

                         


                        I'm part of the 49Million initiative.

                        http://www.49Million.co.za  

                        NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice

                         

                         


                      • Kenneth Mathye
                        Bro. Pat, We are toooo... English. In 2005 when I arrived in Venda (By the way we had to go to Venda because of the transport-we did not have our own car
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
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                          Bro. Pat,

                           

                          We are toooo… English. In 2005 when I arrived in Venda (By the way we had to go to Venda because of the transport-we did not have our own car then). Some people were using the Tshi-Venda Sabbath school lesson. Then people stopped buying them and buy the English ones. I remember the Pastors going around begging people to buy their own language lessons because they were about to be stopped. The poor Pastors were not heard and the lessons were stopped.

                           

                          This remind me of a story which happened some few years back around Makhado (Louis Trichardt). A young couple invited the man’s mother to visit them in their new house. It was during the school holidays so the kids were at home the whole day. The next day husband and wife went to work as usual. When they came back in the evening, the found the old lady waiting with her bags to be taken back home. When they asked what was wrong, she said she cannot stay with kids who speak a language she does not understand. The kids spoke only English. Sad story indeed, but our reality today.

                           

                          From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni
                          Sent: 06 January 2012 11:31 AM
                          To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                           

                           

                          So true Kenny...

                           

                          I even ask myself why the GC always sells us Mark Finely's books...we are buying and distributing millions of books by Mark Finely of which I'm sure that some of the proceeds will go his foundation. is it that we don't have black writers in our church? 

                           

                          Bishop Josh, Elder Thula Nkosi, Ps Papu, Dr Gwala, etc..why can't these guys write books on "christianizing the african" or whatever topic...and then we buy and distribute those books to our own people. For that matter, some of the text in these books are irrelevant to our circumstances.

                           

                          I want to distribute Ps Papu/Dr Gwala/Ps Josh/etc's books...and further have different language editions...Xhosa, English, Sotho, Zulu, Vhenda, etc.   

                           

                          On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...> wrote:

                           

                          Good day brothers and sisters,

                           

                          The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a crèche owned by an Adventist lady. I was shocked when I became an Adventist that the lady was also an Adventist. What shocked me was that in that crèche there was not even a single child from the Adventist community. Then the graduation came and the head elder was invited as a guest speaker. He was shocked to see what the lady was doing. Some of the parents of those kids are Adventist today.

                           

                          Unfortunately the allergy is not only in education but business as well. I rather go and by from Van der Merwe than from Simayi. A sad mentality indeed.

                           

                          From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni


                          Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM

                          To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com


                          Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                           

                           

                          Bro Alvin, 

                          It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

                           

                          I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

                           

                          Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia..our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

                           

                          I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

                           

                          the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

                           

                          Amen!!

                           

                          Patrick Matabeni 

                           

                           

                          On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:

                           

                          Sa-sda

                           

                          As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                           

                          I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

                          Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

                          I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                           

                          My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                           

                          Regards

                          Alvin

                           

                           


                          I'm part of the 49Million initiative.

                          http://www.49Million.co.za  

                          NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice

                           

                           

                           

                           


                          I'm part of the 49Million initiative.

                          http://www.49Million.co.za  

                          NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice

                           

                           

                        • Sindi Dladla
                          Bro. Kenneth, you could not have said it better. My sentiments as well. I often notice with sadness that we blacks demand rights where we re not supposed to.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Bro. Kenneth, you could not have said it better. My sentiments as well.

                            I often notice with sadness that we blacks demand rights where we're not supposed to. We flock to town schools leaving our own and then demand that they dance to our music. If they resist that, we then accuse the poor whites of racism. But are they really racist when they fight for the continuity of their own God- given languge to accommodate us coz we've deserted ours? But on the other hand we are to blame, I cant take my child to sing 'masidonse kanye kanye' for the whole term in the name of christianity education. The mistake that we normally do is being too sympathetic. We come up with brilliant ideas on local school establishments and then hire one school drop out from church coz 'uyakholwa'. no one among the professionals is willing to sacrifice a stable income job for the mercy of abazalwane who, when they realise that thez prosperity, will simply take their kids away coz you now think you're better-- they say.:-(

                            That is also the main reason why most black bussinesses never last long. Blacks rarely support one another. I think the idea of being superior over your people is still our mentality. We go all the way to play dolls to other people so that they can respect us better and leave our own thumb sucking. No wonder we have countable BEEs and uncountable number of poor people. They just love it when we think they are 'abelungu'.

                            Concerned
                            Sindi



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Kenneth Mathye
                            Sent: 06/01/2012 11:01:54 am
                            Subject: RE: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                            Good day brothers and sisters,

                            The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a crèche owned by an Adventist lady. I was shocked when I became an Adventist that the lady was also an Adventist. What shocked me was that in that crèche there was not even a single child from the Adventist community. Then the graduation came and the head elder was invited as a guest speaker. He was shocked to see what the lady was doing. Some of the parents of those kids are Adventist today.

                            Unfortunately the allergy is not only in education but business as well. I rather go and by from Van der Merwe than from Simayi. A sad mentality indeed.

                            From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni
                            Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM
                            To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...



                            Bro Alvin,
                            It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools.

                            I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly.

                            Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia..our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol.

                            I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development.

                            the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves.

                            Amen!!

                            Patrick Matabeni


                            On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...<mailto:almasarira@...>> wrote:

                            Sa-sda

                            As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                            I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.
                            Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)
                            I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                            My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                            Regards
                            Alvin
                          • nosibonga.k@telkomsa.net
                            Not again Ken! I am noticing that in the circles I often seen that some have stopped reading the very English lesson they download from the internet. You ask
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Not again Ken! I am noticing that in the circles I often seen that some have stopped reading the very English lesson they download from the internet. You ask them to study a part for next week and they don't pitch up. Some have stopped carrying bibles while others simply leave their bibles in church. BK
                              Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

                              From: Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...>
                              Sender: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:47:23 +0000
                              To: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com<sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>
                              ReplyTo: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                               

                              Bro. Pat,

                               

                              We are toooo… English. In 2005 when I arrived in Venda (By the way we had to go to Venda because of the transport-we did not have our own car then). Some people were using the Tshi-Venda Sabbath school lesson. Then people stopped buying them and buy the English ones. I remember the Pastors going around begging people to buy their own language lessons because they were about to be stopped. The poor Pastors were not heard and the lessons were stopped.

                               

                              This remind me of a story which happened some few years back around Makhado (Louis Trichardt). A young couple invited the man’s mother to visit them in their new house. It was during the school holidays so the kids were at home the whole day. The next day husband and wife went to work as usual. When they came back in the evening, the found the old lady waiting with her bags to be taken back home. When they asked what was wrong, she said she cannot stay with kids who speak a language she does not understand. The kids spoke only English. Sad story indeed, but our reality today.

                               

                              From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni
                              Sent: 06 January 2012 11:31 AM
                              To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                               

                               

                              So true Kenny...

                               

                              I even ask myself why the GC always sells us Mark Finely's books...we are buying and distributing millions of books by Mark Finely of which I'm sure that some of the proceeds will go his foundation. is it that we don't have black writers in our church? 

                               

                              Bishop Josh, Elder Thula Nkosi, Ps Papu, Dr Gwala, etc..why can't these guys write books on "christianizing the african" or whatever topic...and then we buy and distribute those books to our own people. For that matter, some of the text in these books are irrelevant to our circumstances.

                               

                              I want to distribute Ps Papu/Dr Gwala/Ps Josh/etc's books...and further have different language editions...Xhosa, English, Sotho, Zulu, Vhenda, etc.   

                               

                              On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...> wrote:

                               

                              Good day brothers and sisters,

                               

                              The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a crèche owned by an Adventist lady. I was shocked when I became an Adventist that the lady was also an Adventist. What shocked me was that in that crèche there was not even a single child from the Adventist community. Then the graduation came and the head elder was invited as a guest speaker. He was shocked to see what the lady was doing. Some of the parents of those kids are Adventist today.

                               

                              Unfortunately the allergy is not only in education but business as well. I rather go and by from Van der Merwe than from Simayi. A sad mentality indeed.

                               

                              From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni


                              Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM

                              To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com


                              Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                               

                               

                              Bro Alvin, 

                              It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools. 

                               

                              I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly. 

                               

                              Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia..our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol. 

                               

                              I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development. 

                               

                              the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves. 

                               

                              Amen!!

                               

                              Patrick Matabeni 

                               

                               

                              On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...> wrote:

                               

                              Sa-sda

                               

                              As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had  a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                               

                              I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.

                              Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)

                              I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                               

                              My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                               

                              Regards

                              Alvin

                               

                               


                              I'm part of the 49Million initiative.

                              http://www.49Million.co.za  

                              NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice

                               

                               

                               

                               


                              I'm part of the 49Million initiative.

                              http://www.49Million.co.za  

                              NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice

                               

                               

                            • Sindi Dladla
                              Vho- BK, on the English quartellies , I m not innocent. I dont mean to show disrespect to the people hired for the job, but I get lost in the translation.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 6, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Vho- BK, on the English quartellies , I'm not innocent. I dont mean to show disrespect to the people hired for the job, but I get lost in the translation. That's why I end up prefering the ENgling one.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: nosibonga.k@...
                                Sent: 06/01/2012 12:52:42 pm
                                Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                                Not again Ken! I am noticing that in the circles I often seen that some have stopped reading the very English lesson they download from the internet. You ask them to study a part for next week and they don't pitch up. Some have stopped carrying bibles while others simply leave their bibles in church. BK
                                Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...>
                                Sender: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:47:23
                                To: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com<sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>
                                Reply-To: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                                Bro. Pat,

                                We are toooo... English. In 2005 when I arrived in Venda (By the way we had to go to Venda because of the transport-we did not have our own car then). Some people were using the Tshi-Venda Sabbath school lesson. Then people stopped buying them and buy the English ones. I remember the Pastors going around begging people to buy their own language lessons because they were about to be stopped. The poor Pastors were not heard and the lessons were stopped.

                                This remind me of a story which happened some few years back around Makhado (Louis Trichardt). A young couple invited the man's mother to visit them in their new house. It was during the school holidays so the kids were at home the whole day. The next day husband and wife went to work as usual. When they came back in the evening, the found the old lady waiting with her bags to be taken back home. When they asked what was wrong, she said she cannot stay with kids who speak a language she does not understand. The kids spoke only English. Sad story indeed, but our reality today.

                                From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni
                                Sent: 06 January 2012 11:31 AM
                                To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...



                                So true Kenny...

                                I even ask myself why the GC always sells us Mark Finely's books...we are buying and distributing millions of books by Mark Finely of which I'm sure that some of the proceeds will go his foundation. is it that we don't have black writers in our church?

                                Bishop Josh, Elder Thula Nkosi, Ps Papu, Dr Gwala, etc..why can't these guys write books on "christianizing the african" or whatever topic...and then we buy and distribute those books to our own people. For that matter, some of the text in these books are irrelevant to our circumstances.

                                I want to distribute Ps Papu/Dr Gwala/Ps Josh/etc's books...and further have different language editions...Xhosa, English, Sotho, Zulu, Vhenda, etc.

                                On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...<mailto:MathyeK@...>> wrote:

                                Good day brothers and sisters,

                                The challenge with us blacks is that we are allergic to our own things. Before I became an Adventist my son was going to a crèche owned by an Adventist lady. I was shocked when I became an Adventist that the lady was also an Adventist. What shocked me was that in that crèche there was not even a single child from the Adventist community. Then the graduation came and the head elder was invited as a guest speaker. He was shocked to see what the lady was doing. Some of the parents of those kids are Adventist today.

                                Unfortunately the allergy is not only in education but business as well. I rather go and by from Van der Merwe than from Simayi. A sad mentality indeed.

                                From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Patrick Matabeni

                                Sent: 06 January 2012 09:52 AM
                                To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com>

                                Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...



                                Bro Alvin,
                                It would be interesting for you to lay your hands on Ps Ntlonze's research base about our schools.

                                I think my major interest is in the development of black adventist school in particular and black schools in general. We have seen the downfall of many of our black schools. I want to deduce that our problem is some of sort of microcosm of the general black education condition...so in my analysis i don't think the problem should be particularized to adventism but rather to black schools/institutions broadly.

                                Go to the townships and see the resource level of our schools...appalling! After all, who wants to send his/her kid to a black school...lol...i guess more than suffering from negrophobia and blancophillia..our schools are impoverished to the utter most. I mean, even our the minister of education will never send his/her kid to a black school...lol.

                                I think the best we can do is to stand up as black adventists...and build our schools ourselves! SDASA, ASI, SAU....we should unite and run a project of building our own black schools. and these schools should be based in black townships just as most of our churches. We can start with creches and pre-schools. We must look at revisiting the allocation of tithe...50% should go towards black education development.

                                the white church will not do it for us at all...let's do it for ourselves.

                                Amen!!

                                Patrick Matabeni


                                On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Alvin Masarira <almasarira@...<mailto:almasarira@...>> wrote:

                                Sa-sda

                                As "Missiologists" and "Church Growth Experts" try to make sense of the small size of the Adventist Church in South Africa, there are many theories on possible reasons. The membership of around 100 000 in a 50 million population is NOT typical of a black African country. However one theory which I believe is a major contributing factor is the ABSENCE of many SDA Church schools in the country. Church schools (and clinics, which are normally built on the SDA school campuses) have had a huge influence on communities around them. And one notices that when the school kids have become adults, they will still remember some of the Adventist teachings that were "forced" upon them in their school years.

                                I am really surprised that in a big city like Johannesburg, there is no "decent" (my apologies, I could find a better word) Adventist school which is attractive enough to draw those parents sending their kids to the expensive private schools. Given that school places are so difficult to get in Johannesburg (because of the migration into Johannesburg every year) shouldn't the SDA Church think of establishing a big (or many big) school(s). A decent school will have pre-primary, primary as well as high school and offer a decent curriculum and a wide range of exra-curriculum activities. Above all it will be our church school(s) where the kids will be taught in the Adventist faith and not the "rubbish" they are exposed to in the secular schools.
                                Of course we have Paterson Park (which is ONLY Primary) and then a couple of other primary schools. We then have Sedaven High School (which is 50km out of town and some parents struggle with sending their kids to a a boarding school)
                                I am sure this issue is of concern to all Adventists in all parts of the country.

                                My "assessment" and in my consultation with Adventist parents who are sending their kids to expensive private schools I have a sense that they are willing to move their kids to an Adventist school if there was a "decent" one around. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe that there is a need for good SDA schools in the cities. Even in Cape Town, there is only Good Hope High School and the Riverside Primary School and of course Helderberg High School and maybe one other small one.

                                Regards
                                Alvin




                                I'm part of the 49Million initiative.<http://www.49Million.coza>

                                http://www.49Million.co.za<http://www.49million.co.za/>

                                NB: This Email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/e-mail_legalnotice
                              • Alvin Masarira
                                Sa-sda As I was listening to SAfm this morning on the topic on whether the Christian faith opposed to African traditional worship, it made me think about some
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 9, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Sa-sda
                                   
                                  As I was listening to SAfm this morning on the topic on whether the Christian faith opposed to African traditional worship, it made me think about some of the challenges Adventism faces in this country.
                                  As some of you know, at the 100 year celebration of the ANC this past weekend there was a ceremony of "worshipping/acknowledging" the ancestors and some Christians have had a problem with that. We of course need to accept that the ANC is not a Christian organisation and has a right to do any religious ceremony they want and also tries to appeal to all religions (including ancestral worship).
                                   
                                  But one must acknowledge that the concept of slaughtering animals for the ancestors is very prevalent in this society. In essence the worship of ancestors is widespread. The devil has really found a way into the lives of people, even into the lives of some "Christians" who practice both Christianity and ancestral worship. It is believed that the South African population is maybe 60% or 70% "Christian" but given the widespread nature of ancestral worship, it is clear that many of these "Christians" go to church on Sunday and at the same time worship ancestors. This so called "pact with the devil" poses a huge challenge for the true gospel. Of course God has overcome the forces of darkness but we (the soldiers of the cross) need to be aware of who we are dealing with. Sometimes I have a feeling we really do not have an idea of what the enemy is like. 
                                   
                                  A comment made by one of the pastors on the radio programme was that "those who slaughter animals to appease ancestors will sooner or later discover that the blood of animals is not enough and they need something stronger. When they discover that, they will move to human sacrifice and that might just explain why there are people who just go missing or unexplained murders etc." Of course he could not prove it, but he raised a very important issue i.e. a number of people who get killed or just disappear etc. could be ritual killings, people killed for muti etc.
                                   
                                  The other issue, which has been mentioned by sociologists and religious experts is that of Haiti and Nigeria. Haiti declared Voodoo (in essence devil worship) early 19th Century and Nigeria introduced idol worship in the mid 1970s as an accepted "religion". And since that time those countries have had tremendous challenges. Of course one can not explain all the evils and problems in Haiti and Nigeria or anywhere else by pointing to these events, but there is a direct link between "ancestral, devil, demon worship" and the psyche of a people.
                                   
                                  And as we go out into the society we live in, with the gospel of the kingdom, it is critical that we are aware that we are not fighting against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers of darkness. And these powers don't always appear to us as scary beings but have become so much part of society that we no longer view them as demonic. When a colleage tells you on Monday that they were in the village over the weeekend and slaughtered, we rarely get "scared" that we are in the presence of a "devil worshipper." People in our communities slaughter and in essence worship the devil and it has now become common.
                                   
                                  The challenge placed upon our shoulders as Adventists (who God has revealed the truth) is huge. The gospel of God does not compromise and will lead us on a collision course with anything that opposes His Kingdom. 
                                   
                                  Therefore let us pray that God equips and empowers us to be able to carry out this task.
                                   
                                  Regards
                                  Alvin 
                                   
                                   

                                   
                                  On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Sindi Dladla <dladla.sindi@...> wrote:
                                   


                                  Vho- BK, on the English quartellies , I'm not innocent. I dont mean to show disrespect to the people hired for the job, but I get lost in the translation. That's why I end up prefering the ENgling one.


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: nosibonga.k@...
                                  Sent: 06/01/2012 12:52:42 pm
                                  Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                                  Not again Ken! I am noticing that in the circles I often seen that some have stopped reading the very English lesson they download from the internet. You ask them to study a part for next week and they don't pitch up. Some have stopped carrying bibles while others simply leave their bibles in church. BK
                                  Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

                                • Kenneth Mathye
                                  Elder Alvin, My wife visited a church which she grew up worshiping at on Sunday (The whole family still worship there) and she phoned me to say she was shocked
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 9, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    Elder Alvin,

                                     

                                    My wife visited a church which she grew up worshiping at on Sunday (The whole family still worship there) and she phoned me to say she was shocked about what she saw. She promised me the details when she comes back which is today.

                                     

                                    From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alvin Masarira
                                    Sent: 09 January 2012 11:31 AM
                                    To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                                     

                                     


                                    Sa-sda

                                     

                                    As I was listening to SAfm this morning on the topic on whether the Christian faith opposed to African traditional worship, it made me think about some of the challenges Adventism faces in this country.

                                    As some of you know, at the 100 year celebration of the ANC this past weekend there was a ceremony of "worshipping/acknowledging" the ancestors and some Christians have had a problem with that. We of course need to accept that the ANC is not a Christian organisation and has a right to do any religious ceremony they want and also tries to appeal to all religions (including ancestral worship).

                                     

                                    But one must acknowledge that the concept of slaughtering animals for the ancestors is very prevalent in this society. In essence the worship of ancestors is widespread. The devil has really found a way into the lives of people, even into the lives of some "Christians" who practice both Christianity and ancestral worship. It is believed that the South African population is maybe 60% or 70% "Christian" but given the widespread nature of ancestral worship, it is clear that many of these "Christians" go to church on Sunday and at the same time worship ancestors. This so called "pact with the devil" poses a huge challenge for the true gospel. Of course God has overcome the forces of darkness but we (the soldiers of the cross) need to be aware of who we are dealing with. Sometimes I have a feeling we really do not have an idea of what the enemy is like. 

                                     

                                    A comment made by one of the pastors on the radio programme was that "those who slaughter animals to appease ancestors will sooner or later discover that the blood of animals is not enough and they need something stronger. When they discover that, they will move to human sacrifice and that might just explain why there are people who just go missing or unexplained murders etc." Of course he could not prove it, but he raised a very important issue i.e. a number of people who get killed or just disappear etc. could be ritual killings, people killed for muti etc.

                                     

                                    The other issue, which has been mentioned by sociologists and religious experts is that of Haiti and Nigeria. Haiti declared Voodoo (in essence devil worship) early 19th Century and Nigeria introduced idol worship in the mid 1970s as an accepted "religion". And since that time those countries have had tremendous challenges. Of course one can not explain all the evils and problems in Haiti and Nigeria or anywhere else by pointing to these events, but there is a direct link between "ancestral, devil, demon worship" and the psyche of a people.

                                     

                                    And as we go out into the society we live in, with the gospel of the kingdom, it is critical that we are aware that we are not fighting against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers of darkness. And these powers don't always appear to us as scary beings but have become so much part of society that we no longer view them as demonic. When a colleage tells you on Monday that they were in the village over the weeekend and slaughtered, we rarely get "scared" that we are in the presence of a "devil worshipper." People in our communities slaughter and in essence worship the devil and it has now become common.

                                     

                                    The challenge placed upon our shoulders as Adventists (who God has revealed the truth) is huge. The gospel of God does not compromise and will lead us on a collision course with anything that opposes His Kingdom. 

                                     

                                    Therefore let us pray that God equips and empowers us to be able to carry out this task.

                                     

                                    Regards

                                    Alvin 

                                     

                                     


                                     

                                    On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Sindi Dladla <dladla.sindi@...> wrote:

                                     


                                    Vho- BK, on the English quartellies , I'm not innocent. I dont mean to show disrespect to the people hired for the job, but I get lost in the translation. That's why I end up prefering the ENgling one.


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: nosibonga.k@...
                                    Sent: 06/01/2012 12:52:42 pm
                                    Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                                    Not again Ken! I am noticing that in the circles I often seen that some have stopped reading the very English lesson they download from the internet. You ask them to study a part for next week and they don't pitch up Some have stopped carrying bibles while others simply leave their bibles in church. BK
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                                  • Nda Nxumalo
                                    Eish! My heart is warmed by this discussion. Where I am, I am struggling to instil the conviction that I eventually got from our own church resources, through
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 10, 2012
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                                      Eish!  My heart is warmed by this discussion.

                                      Where I am, I am struggling to instil the conviction that I eventually got from our own church resources, through Bible study, of course.  EVERY Adventist Church that is set up is incomplete if it does not have an adjunct church school and/or clinic with basic means of promoting natural health (hydrotherapy, basic use of food as one's medicine--including herbs; I really am no fan of the scholarly slant in s'bali's work in this regard, but that is a topic that has come and gone on SA-SDA, so I am not going there, s'bali!  LOL!!).

                                      As Bab' uBK has so aptly said concerning Keitsleigh at Durban Central SDA Church, "The principal Mrs Robinson, often wants to put desks on top of the roof every year because of the high demand for Adventist education in that part of the country. Praise be His name!"  Why hasn't the rest of Durban caught on, thus lessening pressure on Keitsleigh?  Because of the absence of such evangelistic endeavours attached to local churches, even I found myself giving Bab' uBK a call late in 2010 or early in last year.  As we speak, my eldest daughter made her way to Solusi High School with my mother, all in a bid to find an affordable (one of the KEY requirements for a serious, SDA school: affordability), principled SDA school run by professing SDAs like you and me.

                                      While I appreciate visiting folk door-to-door, I am appalled at how the church's GENERAL take on evangelism is limited to visiting neighbouring households door-to-door on a Sabbath with an evangelism emphasis.  Eish!  I stink at approaching people door-to-door.  For me, this is the approach that works:

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                                      Having said that, it is no wonder that independent ministries are beginning to proliferate.  There is a stagnancy at the church administrative level, most of it steeped in monetary maladministration.  It tends to thwart the progress of real work at grassroots level.

                                      Lastly, the deeply ingrained effect of colonisation has done its dastardly deed.  While I respect the fact that a people must represent their own interests, the continual identity of people problems BUT limiting it to blackness bothers me.  While I have issues with attitudes of white supremacy, reverse discrimination is even worse.  To me, this is a service to MANKIND--not merely to blacks (even if we know that, ultimately, we attract black SDA membership predominantly).  If we do not just plan for PEOPLE, but have this BLACK agenda, we taint the purity of advancing God's work even among the black population.

                                      To me, even after attending an obviously racially discriminatory SDA Church in Goodwood (Cape Town) in 2001, a church service in an Adventist Church needn't be black for God to minister to my soul.  Likewise with the ministry of evangelism through running Adventist schools--NOT BLACK Adventist schools, but Adventist schools QHA!  Some of the most potent sermons and Sabbath School programmes that I ever heard in my whole life I heard in that church that had quite a number of openly hostile white folk.  To date, I remain unfazed.  If I must attend church there, I will.  Literally to hell with the racism of some among them.  All glory to God who extends His mercy and grace to us all, irrespective of our individual races.

                                      Nda

                                      On 9 January 2012 11:42, Kenneth Mathye <MathyeK@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Elder Alvin,

                                       

                                      My wife visited a church which she grew up worshiping at on Sunday (The whole family still worship there) and she phoned me to say she was shocked about what she saw. She promised me the details when she comes back which is today.

                                       

                                      From: sa-sda@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sa-sda@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alvin Masarira
                                      Sent: 09 January 2012 11:31 AM
                                      To: Kenneth Mathye; sa-sda@yahoogroups.com


                                      Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                                       

                                       


                                      Sa-sda

                                       

                                      As I was listening to SAfm this morning on the topic on whether the Christian faith opposed to African traditional worship, it made me think about some of the challenges Adventism faces in this country.

                                      As some of you know, at the 100 year celebration of the ANC this past weekend there was a ceremony of "worshipping/acknowledging" the ancestors and some Christians have had a problem with that. We of course need to accept that the ANC is not a Christian organisation and has a right to do any religious ceremony they want and also tries to appeal to all religions (including ancestral worship).

                                       

                                      But one must acknowledge that the concept of slaughtering animals for the ancestors is very prevalent in this society. In essence the worship of ancestors is widespread. The devil has really found a way into the lives of people, even into the lives of some "Christians" who practice both Christianity and ancestral worship. It is believed that the South African population is maybe 60% or 70% "Christian" but given the widespread nature of ancestral worship, it is clear that many of these "Christians" go to church on Sunday and at the same time worship ancestors. This so called "pact with the devil" poses a huge challenge for the true gospel. Of course God has overcome the forces of darkness but we (the soldiers of the cross) need to be aware of who we are dealing with. Sometimes I have a feeling we really do not have an idea of what the enemy is like. 

                                       

                                      A comment made by one of the pastors on the radio programme was that "those who slaughter animals to appease ancestors will sooner or later discover that the blood of animals is not enough and they need something stronger. When they discover that, they will move to human sacrifice and that might just explain why there are people who just go missing or unexplained murders etc." Of course he could not prove it, but he raised a very important issue i.e. a number of people who get killed or just disappear etc. could be ritual killings, people killed for muti etc.

                                       

                                      The other issue, which has been mentioned by sociologists and religious experts is that of Haiti and Nigeria. Haiti declared Voodoo (in essence devil worship) early 19th Century and Nigeria introduced idol worship in the mid 1970s as an accepted "religion". And since that time those countries have had tremendous challenges. Of course one can not explain all the evils and problems in Haiti and Nigeria or anywhere else by pointing to these events, but there is a direct link between "ancestral, devil, demon worship" and the psyche of a people.

                                       

                                      And as we go out into the society we live in, with the gospel of the kingdom, it is critical that we are aware that we are not fighting against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers of darkness. And these powers don't always appear to us as scary beings but have become so much part of society that we no longer view them as demonic. When a colleage tells you on Monday that they were in the village over the weeekend and slaughtered, we rarely get "scared" that we are in the presence of a "devil worshipper." People in our communities slaughter and in essence worship the devil and it has now become common.

                                       

                                      The challenge placed upon our shoulders as Adventists (who God has revealed the truth) is huge. The gospel of God does not compromise and will lead us on a collision course with anything that opposes His Kingdom. 

                                       

                                      Therefore let us pray that God equips and empowers us to be able to carry out this task.

                                       

                                      Regards

                                      Alvin 

                                       

                                       


                                       

                                      On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Sindi Dladla <dladla.sindi@...> wrote:

                                       


                                      Vho- BK, on the English quartellies , I'm not innocent. I dont mean to show disrespect to the people hired for the job, but I get lost in the translation. That's why I end up prefering the ENgling one.


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: nosibonga.k@...
                                      Sent: 06/01/2012 12:52:42 pm
                                      Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Adventist Education in South Africa...

                                      Not again Ken! I am noticing that in the circles I often seen that some have stopped reading the very English lesson they download from the internet. You ask them to study a part for next week and they don't pitch up Some have stopped carrying bibles while others simply leave their bibles in church. BK


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