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Re: [rug-fanatics] Digest Number 173

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  • JoLynne W. Martinez
    I m here. And I -- too -- was wondering why it was so quiet all of a sudden. Best wishes, JoLynne Kadija s Miniature Oriental Carpets jolynne@kadija.com
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 30, 2001
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      I'm here. And I -- too -- was wondering why it was so quiet all of a
      sudden.

      Best wishes,
      JoLynne
      Kadija's Miniature Oriental Carpets
      jolynne@... www.kadija.com

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <rug-fanatics@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <rug-fanatics@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 12:31 AM
      Subject: [rug-fanatics] Digest Number 173


      >
      > There is 1 message in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. "WHAT HAPPENED"
      > From: Chalen Willis <lcwillis@...>
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:28:36 +0400
      > From: Chalen Willis <lcwillis@...>
      > Subject: "WHAT HAPPENED"
      >
      > >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:21:34 +0400
      > >To: rug-fanatics-owner@yahoogroups.com
      > >From: Chalen Willis <lcwillis@...>
      > >Subject: "WHAT HAPPENED"
      > >
      > >PLEA FROM LEN WILLIS, SHARJAH, UAE.
      > >
      > >Suddenly there were no more interesting and not-so-interesting messages
      distributed to us Rug Fanatics. Why?
      > >
      > >No warning!
      > >
      > >No intimation!
      > >
      > >No explanation!
      > >
      > >Is all the worthy effort of our beloved moderator, Mr Ian Stewart ended?
      > >
      > >Hopefully it's just a glitch on my side and I can get hooked up again.
      > >
      > >Bless me though, I can't remember how I got hooked in the first place.
      > >
      > >So my plea is...............
      > >
      > >
      > >.....................H E L P....................
      >
      > ............A N Y B O D Y........O U T.........T H E R E ? ?
      ?................
      > >
      > >, lcwillis@...
      > >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Alessandro
      Dear rug-fanatics,here I am with a new Caucasian rug saga... I hope you ll stand my ravings! ;-)Well! I ve seen this rug a few days ago while I was
      Message 2 of 4 , May 2, 2001
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        Dear rug-fanatics,

        here I am with a new Caucasian rug saga... I hope you'll stand my ravings! ;-)

        Well! I've seen this rug a few days ago while I was attending an antique
        exhibition. It is a blue field Kazak, and I was struck by its aesthetic
        qualities. Unfortunately, I wasn't carrying my new digital camera, so I
        have not been able to take direct shots, but I've scanned the images from
        the exhibition catalogue. I've uploaded the images, so if you like you
        can take a look at them, but please consider that the colours are by no
        means close to the real one (the rug is much more bright, and colours
        possess a real glow)!! If you like, I'll take direct shots when I'll meet
        the dealer again in a couple of weeks. The image URLs follow:

        http://www.edisons.it/powersolutions/kazak_blue/kazak_blue_small.jpg
        http://www.edisons.it/powersolutions/kazak_blue/kazak_blue_big.jpg

        The rug is put up for sale by Alberto Levi, one of Italian -and not only-
        top expert (he was the Chairman of the ninth I.C.O.C.: peraphs some of
        you met him in that occasion) and he authorized me to start this
        discussion (please consider also that I'm thinking to purchase this
        Kazak, so be *very* opinionated... ;-)

        The following excerpt comes from the seller's catalogue:

        /-----------------
        Circa 1830
        160 x 123 cm (5'3" x 4')

        Symmetrically knotted wool pile on a wool foundation

        A rare and unusual rug decorated by a small hexagonal hooked medallion
        typical of the carpets from Borchalu, though flanked by two large ivory
        octagonal medallions characteristic of Fachralo Kazaks. The light blue
        field is enlivened by a series of hooked devices similar to the kotchanak
        motif seen on Turkoman rugs as well as on certain Karachop Kazaks, and is
        powerfully framed by a border consisting of polychrome double-T elements
        on a dark brown background. The archaic outline of the design and the
        refined palette allow us to date this rug to the first half of the
        nineteenth century, that is to a period preceding the establishment of
        the various Kazak typologies.
        -----------------/

        Some additional notes: the rug has ivory wool wefts, and the dark brown
        background of borders is natural wool. Colours are obviously vegetable,
        and the handle is limp and flexible.

        I think this rug was published on a very recent HALI issue, but at the
        moment I am not able to access my bookcase, so if some of you can check
        I'll be grateful!

        So, if you like to kindly comment on this rug, I have a few questions:

        * Do you remember the publication of similar examples?

        * What do you think about the aesthetic merits of the rug?

        * Even if it has well-balanced and spaced design, can it really be a pre-
        commercial period specimen coming from the first half of the XIX century?
        (I think it is a later rug, but please let me know what do you think about...)

        * The simple zig-zag pattern on the white background can be really
        considered an old type? Same question for the bold double-T border...

        Well, I think I have bothered you enough!! Many, many thanks in advance
        for all your remarks and suggestions!!

        With kindest regards,

        Alessandro //


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      • jboc@erols.com
        Hello Alessandro, Your English is certainly better than my Italian. I hope you are enjoying that long rug you were looking at. Thanks for the kind words. I
        Message 3 of 4 , May 2, 2001
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          Hello Alessandro,
          Your English is certainly better than my Italian. I hope you are
          enjoying that long rug you were looking at. Thanks for the kind words.

          I like the rug you posted and I like Alberto Levi. The rug looks
          familiar and it may have passed through Sotheby's at some point or at
          least a similar rug. Let me say up front I think it is an excellent
          piece. Still among the best pieces there are degrees. It is perhaps a
          touch busy with the small field ornamentation. Not a major point and
          rather dependent on ones taste. The figures in the field suggest to me
          a possible Armenian origin. Still there were Armenian weavers in that
          area though there was a population shift with Armenians going north
          and Moslems going south circa 1830. The white wefts and the use of
          natural brown seem to lend towards the Armenian attribution. I have to
          say that I do not wish to disagree with Alberto Levi on the rug since
          he has seen it and I am basing impressions on a computer monitor. He
          is a good guy.
          Best wishes,
          Barry O'Connell
        • Alex
          [sorry if you have received this message twice, but I m experiencing serious troubles with egroups, and as I think all problems are related to bad Yahoo
          Message 4 of 4 , May 4, 2001
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            [sorry if you have received this message twice, but I'm experiencing
            serious troubles with egroups, and as I think all problems are related to
            bad Yahoo accounts, I've switched to another POP. I hope it will work.
            I've also edited the old message, adding a couple of things]


            Dear Barry,

            my English can be certainly better than your Italian, but I assure you
            that your language is a bit more important and useful... ;-)) And yes,
            I'm enjoying that long rug! Thank you again for your help and encouragement!

            I'm *very* happy to see you again, and I'm honoured by your reply. I
            respect your privacy, so I don't ask you how things are going, but you
            are ever in my heart.

            Your Armenian attribution of the rug is very interesting, as I like very
            much the human figures depicted. I also find of some interest the fact
            that the two figures wear (or should wear) clothes of the time. Do you
            have more information about that?

            As for the Sotheby matter, unfortunately I don't own any auction
            catalogue, so I can't do a research by myself. But thank you however for
            the hint.

            And if you want disagree with Alberto Levi you can, as he is interested
            to know what list members *really* think about that Kazak. I think this
            is the right attitude for a true rug-lover and (conscious) seller, as
            Alberto is.

            All the best,

            Alessandro //


            >--- In rug-fanatics@y..., jboc@e... wrote:
            >Hello Alessandro,
            >Your English is certainly better than my Italian. I hope you are
            >enjoying that long rug you were looking at. Thanks for the kind words.
            >
            >I like the rug you posted and I like Alberto Levi. The rug looks
            >familiar and it may have passed through Sotheby's at some point or at
            >least a similar rug. Let me say up front I think it is an excellent
            >piece. Still among the best pieces there are degrees. It is perhaps a
            >touch busy with the small field ornamentation. Not a major point and
            >rather dependent on ones taste. The figures in the field suggest to me
            >a possible Armenian origin. Still there were Armenian weavers in that
            >area though there was a population shift with Armenians going north
            >and Moslems going south circa 1830. The white wefts and the use of
            >natural brown seem to lend towards the Armenian attribution. I have to
            >say that I do not wish to disagree with Alberto Levi on the rug since
            >he has seen it and I am basing impressions on a computer monitor. He
            >is a good guy.
            >Best wishes,
            >Barry O'Connell
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