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Re: Grip dilemma

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  • danimhsta
    3. When I play 3/4 I always fall behind or finish faster than the song. What could be the problem and solution to this. Joseph Well, I ve spent a lot of time
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 31, 2005
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      "3. When I play 3/4 I always fall behind or finish faster than the
      song. What
      could be the problem and solution to this.

      Joseph"

      Well, I've spent a lot of time playing odd-time signatures (cuz I'm
      a music theory b***h, and I find it's easy to impress other
      musicians with odd-time if your chops aren't up to par. However,
      this is not to say you should spend more time on odd-timing. Chops
      are much, much more important.) There are two ways 3/4 is played,
      usually:
      Like triplets, which places the snare on the and of the 2

      HH x x x x x x
      S x
      B x

      or

      Like three actual beats, which places the snare on the 3

      HH x x x x x x
      S x
      B x x

      For the first one, "feeling" it out is much easier, because
      everything is kind of based off of this triplet feel, but it's still
      kind of the regular 4/4 you're used to playing. It feels like a
      waltz. Staying on beat, therefore, is much easier, and you can
      count it like this:
      HH x x x x x x
      S x
      B x
      1 e + 2 e + etc.

      Just for music that I listen to, A Perfect Circle (Josh Freese) has
      a lot of songs in this type of 3/4 (on their first album, not the
      second. More 4/4 on the second). You could listen to some of that
      to get a sense of what I mean. Try The Hollow, Judith, or 3 Libras.

      For the second one, the first thing I'd suggest doing is making up a
      few fills on your own before you sit down to play with a band.
      Something simple like:
      HH x x x x x x
      S x XxxxXxxxXxxx
      B x x

      You could roll that around the toms if you'd like. A good song for
      this, off the top of my head is One, by Metallica (Lars Ulrich) (I
      know you've all heard it, but it demonstrates the point). He's got
      some simple fills in thate song you could learn from.

      I hope that helps. The last tip I can give you, if all else fails,
      is count it in your head as you play. It may feel mechanical and
      strange at first, but the more you do it, the more you can just feel
      it out. If you have any other questions about odd-timings, feel
      free to ask. I love that stuff. But, again, it's always about the
      music. Odd-timings alone doesn't make a good song. But if you have
      a good song in odd-time, you should know how to play under it.

      Nimg
    • John Cornish
      Hello Joseph It is your choise on the studio rings. There is no right or wrong just what ever sound you are looking for. The rings will soften and lower the
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 1 4:35 AM
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        Hello Joseph

        It is your choise on the studio rings.
        There is no right or wrong just what ever sound you are looking for.
        The rings will soften and lower the tone of the drum.

        As far as useing your new books in (Stick Control) you might want to get
        used to the sticking patterns and then add patterns on your feet
        to go with them .
        Such as a Samba pattern Hi Hat on the & of 2 and 4- and bass on the ah of
        2 and 4 - also on 1and 3 and

        Hope I explained thet correctly?


        On New Breed I would highly reccomend a teacher that has used the book. It
        would make it much easier.

        Hope this helps.

        JD
        > [Original Message]
        > From: Makhuvele Joseph <makhuvej@...>
        > To: <rudiments@yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: 3/31/2005 10:58:51 AM
        > Subject: RE: [rudiments] Grip dilemma
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi All,
        >
        > I have not posted in a long while and know there are great drummers on
        this list who can advise new comers like me, Just have few questions:
        >
        > I am a learner drummer who own a Tama Rockstar Fusion kit played with
        Remo rings for good sound. Lately purchased Remo pinstripe heads.
        >
        > 1. Do I still need to put the O rings or it's fine without.
        >
        > 2. I want to learn how to develop nice grooves like Marcus Baylor for
        Yellow Jackets who rocked Cape Town - South Africa over the weekend. (He
        impressed me a lot and I know there are others I can learn from). What
        exercises or material do I need? Lately purchased - stick control, new
        breed, rock drumming.
        >
        > 3. When I play 3/4 I always fall behind or finish faster than the song.
        What could be the problem and solution to this.
        >
        > Joseph
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Casper Paludan
        Triplets are tricky things. It is a scientific, if empirical fact that when 99% of all drummers play 2 bars of 4/4, and then switch to triplets to the quarter
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 2 8:57 AM
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          Triplets are tricky things. It is a scientific, if empirical fact that when
          99% of all drummers play 2 bars of 4/4, and then switch to triplets to the
          quarter note, they (we?) fall behind slightly. It is a trick our brain, or
          lack thereof, plays on us. It can be corrected with a practice pad and a
          metronome, in several ways. The most effect ive is to play the quarters on
          the pad, and then, when the shift to triplets is imminent, grab the pad and
          play the triplets WITH the pad ON your head. That way, you will learn very
          fast, and never, never forget :-)

          Hope this helps,

          Casper
          -----Original Message-----
          From: danimhsta [mailto:DaNimhsta@...]
          Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:53 PM
          To: rudiments@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [rudiments] Re: Grip dilemma




          "3. When I play 3/4 I always fall behind or finish faster than the
          song. What
          could be the problem and solution to this.

          Joseph"

          Well, I've spent a lot of time playing odd-time signatures (cuz I'm
          a music theory b***h, and I find it's easy to impress other
          musicians with odd-time if your chops aren't up to par. However,
          this is not to say you should spend more time on odd-timing. Chops
          are much, much more important.) There are two ways 3/4 is played,
          usually:
          Like triplets, which places the snare on the and of the 2

          HH x x x x x x
          S x
          B x

          or

          Like three actual beats, which places the snare on the 3

          HH x x x x x x
          S x
          B x x

          For the first one, "feeling" it out is much easier, because
          everything is kind of based off of this triplet feel, but it's still
          kind of the regular 4/4 you're used to playing. It feels like a
          waltz. Staying on beat, therefore, is much easier, and you can
          count it like this:
          HH x x x x x x
          S x
          B x
          1 e + 2 e + etc.

          Just for music that I listen to, A Perfect Circle (Josh Freese) has
          a lot of songs in this type of 3/4 (on their first album, not the
          second. More 4/4 on the second). You could listen to some of that
          to get a sense of what I mean. Try The Hollow, Judith, or 3 Libras.

          For the second one, the first thing I'd suggest doing is making up a
          few fills on your own before you sit down to play with a band.
          Something simple like:
          HH x x x x x x
          S x XxxxXxxxXxxx
          B x x

          You could roll that around the toms if you'd like. A good song for
          this, off the top of my head is One, by Metallica (Lars Ulrich) (I
          know you've all heard it, but it demonstrates the point). He's got
          some simple fills in thate song you could learn from.

          I hope that helps. The last tip I can give you, if all else fails,
          is count it in your head as you play. It may feel mechanical and
          strange at first, but the more you do it, the more you can just feel
          it out. If you have any other questions about odd-timings, feel
          free to ask. I love that stuff. But, again, it's always about the
          music. Odd-timings alone doesn't make a good song. But if you have
          a good song in odd-time, you should know how to play under it.

          Nimg








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        • Casper Paludan
          I agree with you, Ruthard in this post, but elsewhere you seem to refer to learning grips as a shortcut . You may mean it differently, but I just want to make
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 2 9:14 AM
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            I agree with you, Ruthard in this post, but elsewhere you seem to refer to
            learning grips as a "shortcut". You may mean it differently, but I just want
            to make clear that to me, learning those grips is the path of most
            resistance, sort of the opposite of a shortcut. It is true that you cannot
            one day change your grip, and suddenly play lightning fast. But if you
            practice the free stroke and /or the Moeller technique one hour every day
            for a year, you get AMAZING results. Just wanted to clear up the semantics.

            Cheers,

            Casper
            -----Original Message-----
            From: rootheart@... [mailto:rootheart@...]
            Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:09 PM
            To: tenrec@...; joedrum414@...;
            rudiments@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [rudiments] Grip dilemma


            hi,
            about ol grip issue:
            I never was sure which grip/technique was good for myself.. wether
            traditional, matched, french, german or what ever..
            I just used to hold the sticks naturally and beat those ol drums...But
            later....
            Meanwhile I started to analyse my grip, read about and practised all
            kinda
            techniques, and I found out that the best thing you can do is what I did
            as
            a kid without better knowing: If you cannot decide which of a million
            recommended technique is best for you, just simply practise them
            all..!!!!
            Then once your brain wants to hit those drum, your limps will then
            automatically find the right way to react to your idea..sometimes french,
            sometimes
            whatever...it is all up to the situation and your vocabulary and on wich
            part
            of the set you play.. e.g. Jazz pattern on the ride frigging fast will
            only
            work french thumb up... you need to have all those different techniques
            just
            "instant ready" in your brain-folder...:-)

            Regards
            Ruthard
            Excuse my english


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          • rootheart@aol.com
            In einer eMail vom 31.03.2005 21:07:10 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit schreibt casper.paludan@verizon.net: I don t believe in studying technique for its own
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 3 9:30 AM
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              In einer eMail vom 31.03.2005 21:07:10 Westeuropäische Sommerzeit schreibt
              casper.paludan@...:

              I don't believe in studying technique for its own sake. I can simply say
              that it can open doors for you
              Thank you caspar, for putting "IT" into words"...
              .
              Regards &Respect...
              Ruthard








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