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RSS Profile and Extensions

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  • Randy Morin
    I was just made aware of RSS 2.0 support in Blogger. http://www.kbcafe.com/rss/?guid=20060606134443 One issue that caught my eye is the entity-encoded XHTML.
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 6, 2006
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      I was just made aware of RSS 2.0 support in Blogger.

      http://www.kbcafe.com/rss/?guid=20060606134443

      One issue that caught my eye is the entity-encoded XHTML. So, I went
      to the RSS profile and noticed that we don't address extensions in the
      profile, or maybe I'm missing something.

      http://www.rssboard.org/rss-profile

      I thought one of the reasons for the profile was to include the common
      extensions. Is this the common thought?

      I was thinking that in order to better accomodate microformats that we
      should discuss a way of embedding XHTML, rather than encoding it.
      <xhtml:body> has been used in the past and I'd like to re-use
      something that many aggregators already support.

      Let's discuss.

      Randy
    • James Holderness
      ... It looks to me like that outer XHTML div is just a vesitigial remnant of the Atom feed, which obviously requires the namespace when the content isn t
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 7, 2006
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        Randy Morin wrote:
        > One issue that caught my eye is the entity-encoded XHTML.

        It looks to me like that outer XHTML div is just a vesitigial remnant of the
        Atom feed, which obviously requires the namespace when the content isn't
        encoded. Most clients will just ignore the namespace and treat everything as
        HTML anyway. I don't think there's any significance to it, other than maybe
        indicating that the content is well-formed (which ironically it isn't).

        > I was thinking that in order to better accomodate microformats that we
        > should discuss a way of embedding XHTML, rather than encoding it.
        > <xhtml:body> has been used in the past and I'd like to re-use
        > something that many aggregators already support.

        My last test results indicated 9 of 23 aggregators supported <xhtml:body>.
        Neither IE7 nor the new Firefox made the list. One aggregator lost all
        markup in the <xhtml:body> so it would actually lose functionality by the
        inclusion of that element (actually nearly all aggregators lost the markup
        if it used a namespace prefix).

        I haven't done heavy testing of <xhtml:body>, but from my experience of
        testing xhtml content in Atom I would say that in general the xhtml support
        is considerably worse than escaped html. And bare in mind that when you
        screw up inline xhtml it can make the entire feed invalid and thus
        unreadable in aggregators that use strict XML parsers (IE7 for example).

        Bottom line: <xhtml:body> is nice for hardcore XML zealots that think
        escaping is evil, but if you want the broadest possible support for your
        feed, you're better off just sticking with <description>.

        Regards
        James
      • Sam Ruby
        ... And then there are those, like http://www.thinksecret.com/rss.xml, who simply put well formed XHTML (sans namespace) directly into their descriptions. In
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 7, 2006
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          James Holderness wrote:
          >
          > Bottom line: <xhtml:body> is nice for hardcore XML zealots that think
          > escaping is evil, but if you want the broadest possible support for your
          > feed, you're better off just sticking with <description>.

          And then there are those, like http://www.thinksecret.com/rss.xml, who
          simply put well formed XHTML (sans namespace) directly into their
          descriptions. In that particular case, I somehow doubt that there is
          any hardcore XML zealotry involved.

          - Sam Ruby
        • Randy Morin
          Thanks James. I figured support for it would be very low. If we include support in the RSS profile, then maybe we can convince more aggregators to get this
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 7, 2006
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            Thanks James. I figured support for it would be very low. If we
            include support in the RSS profile, then maybe we can convince more
            aggregators to get this working. Eventually, I'd like to be able to
            use an xpath on an RSS file to find microformat data. Currently, with
            embedded HTML, that's a less than obvious HOW TO DO.
            Thanks again,

            Randy Charles Morin
            http://www.kbcafe.com/rss



            --- In rss-public@yahoogroups.com, "James Holderness" <j4_james@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > My last test results indicated 9 of 23 aggregators supported
            <xhtml:body>.
            > Neither IE7 nor the new Firefox made the list. One aggregator lost all
            > markup in the <xhtml:body> so it would actually lose functionality
            by the
            > inclusion of that element (actually nearly all aggregators lost the
            markup
            > if it used a namespace prefix).
          • A. Pagaltzis
            ... In theory, evil hacks for this already work. libxslt supports the EXSLT extensions which include an `encode-uri` function, so theoretically you could
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 7, 2006
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              * Randy Morin <randy@...> [2006-06-07 18:35]:
              > Eventually, I'd like to be able to use an xpath on an RSS file
              > to find microformat data. Currently, with embedded HTML, that's
              > a less than obvious HOW TO DO.

              In theory, evil hacks for this already work. libxslt supports the
              EXSLT extensions which include an `encode-uri` function, so
              theoretically you could URI-encode the tagsoup and append it to
              the string `data:text/html,`, then pass that to the `document`
              function to get it parsed, since libxml2 has a HTML tagsoup
              parser that builds a DOM in addition to the parser for
              well-formed XML. However, it seems libxslt doesn’t support the
              `data:` scheme and it also appears that its `document` function
              always goes directly to the XML parser, even if you enable HTML
              tagsoup parsing mode.

              I had a look at making this go at some point, though, and it
              didn’t seem that the patches would be too difficult to write, but
              like so many tuit-predicated things the effort never concluded.

              If you find another, better implementation of EXSLT that sports a
              tagsoup parser, you might get this working immediately. Or you
              might try Mark Nottingham’s libxslt_web, which marries libxslt
              with HTML Tidy so that you hand it tagsoup and get back an XHTML
              nodeset, then hand it off to libxml2 for parsing. (Tidy copes
              with more crud than libxml2’s tagsoup parser too.)

              Of course, all this is a lot less optimal than having the content
              be a first-class citizen of the feed document… but double-encoded
              tagsoup is here to stay, so we’ll have to find ways to cope with
              it regardless.

              Regards,
              --
              Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
            • James Holderness
              ... Not much to go on there, but the occasional use of uppercase element names makes me think it s probably just good old HTML that someone forgot to escape.
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 9, 2006
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                Sam Ruby wrote:

                >And then there are those, like http://www.thinksecret.com/rss.xml, who
                >simply put well formed XHTML (sans namespace) directly into their
                >descriptions. In that particular case, I somehow doubt that there is
                >any hardcore XML zealotry involved.

                Not much to go on there, but the occasional use of uppercase element names
                makes me think it's probably just good old HTML that someone forgot to
                escape. Either way, definately not an XML zealot - they'd never get
                something like that wrong.

                Incidentally, I mean XML zealot in the nicest possible way.

                Regards
                James
              • secou
                Hi, For two days now, Feed Validator is down. Any explanation ? Best regards Serge
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 9, 2006
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                  Hi,

                  For two days now, Feed Validator is down. Any explanation ?
                  Best regards
                  Serge
                • Sam Ruby
                  ... Only between around 06:00 and 12:00 GMT both days. My hosting provider (Cornerhost) has had some unexplained issue which effectively disabled HTTP access
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 9, 2006
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                    secou wrote:
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > For two days now, Feed Validator is down. Any explanation ?

                    Only between around 06:00 and 12:00 GMT both days. My hosting provider
                    (Cornerhost) has had some unexplained issue which effectively disabled
                    HTTP access to all Cornerhost machines.

                    Meanwhile, the W3C hosts a stable snapshot at

                    http://validator.w3.org/feed/

                    - Sam Ruby
                  • Randy Morin
                    Sam, I m having the same problem. What s upp? Thanks, Randy Charles Morin http://www.kbcafe.com/rss
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 9, 2006
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                      Sam,
                      I'm having the same problem. What's upp?
                      Thanks,

                      Randy Charles Morin
                      http://www.kbcafe.com/rss

                      --- In rss-public@yahoogroups.com, "secou" <secou@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > For two days now, Feed Validator is down. Any explanation ?
                      > Best regards
                      > Serge
                      >
                    • Randy Morin
                      It s back! Randy
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 9, 2006
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                        It's back!

                        Randy

                        --- In rss-public@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Morin" <randy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Sam,
                        > I'm having the same problem. What's upp?
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Randy Charles Morin
                        > http://www.kbcafe.com/rss
                        >
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