Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [rss-media] [ipodder-dev] Re: Yahoo Media RSS

Expand Messages
  • Suzan Foster
    ... I did a bit of experimenting with the examples and came up with the following: http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-2.rdf http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-3.rdf
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 18, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      On Dec 17, 2004, at 10:34 PM, Danny Ayers wrote:

      > Now if I were in the position you're in, what I'd do is have a look at
      > how this media description material could be expressed in the more
      > general Resource Description Framework, specifically RDF/XML, even
      > more specifically RSS 1.0.

      I did a bit of experimenting with the examples and came up with the
      following:

      http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-2.rdf
      http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-3.rdf
      http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-4.rdf
      http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-5.rdf

      grtz, su.
    • Marc Canter
      Well at least you got the right domain. God bless the Anarchists. Well I guess XS4all has mellowed with age. Word of caution and quick political statement:
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 18, 2004
      • 0 Attachment

        Well at least you got the right domain.

         

        God bless the Anarchists.  Well I guess XS4all has mellowed with age.

         

        Word of caution and quick political statement:

         

        though 75%+ of subscription data is in RSS 2.0 form, clearly there is room in the world and a need for rdf RSS 1.0.”

         

        One approach we’ve been taking – is creating pseudo-schemas – which are NEITHER xml or rdf – but rather – a lowest common denominator between the two – which enables us all to agree upon basic forms, fields and functions.

         

        THEN the particulars of gluing that pseudo-schema to RSS 1.0 or RSS 2.0 happens – but at least the two ‘camps’ can stay in sync – and everyone (theoretically) can stay happy.

         

        This Yahoo initiated effort has started with RSS 2.0 as its base – and I’d vote to come to logical and efficient conclusions as to what these standards should be, and then go back and ‘clone’ that functionality for rdf.

         

        THEN we all should be focusing on shared APIs for all sorts of  media functionality and make sure those calls are in SOAP, XML-RPC and REST.

         

        There’s just no reason why we need to degrade into some religious warfare.  It’s 2005 after all (or almost at least!)

         

        - marc

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Suzan Foster [mailto:su@...]
        Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:04 PM
        To: rss-media@yahoogroups.com; rss-dev@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [rss-media] [ipodder-dev] Re: Yahoo Media RSS

         


        On Dec 17, 2004, at 10:34 PM, Danny Ayers wrote:

        > Now if I were in the position you're in, what I'd do is have a look at
        > how this media description material could be expressed in the more
        > general Resource Description Framework, specifically RDF/XML, even
        > more specifically RSS 1.0.

        I did a bit of experimenting with the examples and came up with the
        following:

        http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-2.rdf
        http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-3.rdf
        http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-4.rdf
        http://www.xs4all.nl/~foz/mrss-5.rdf

        grtz, su.



      • Suzan Foster
        ... I am a mere customer of xs4all, and don t have any direct affiliation ... while ago. ... , _/ _ _,--. .- . /(/. . . . . `/
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 19, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          On Dec 19, 2004, at 4:42 AM, Marc Canter wrote:

          > Well at least you got the right domain.
          > God bless the Anarchists.  Well I guess XS4all has mellowed with age.

          I am a mere customer of xs4all, and don't have any direct affiliation
          :) B.t.w., they got bought by the biggest Dutch telco (KPN) quite a
          while ago.

          > Word of caution and quick political statement:
          > “though 75%+ of subscription data is in RSS 2.0 form, clearly there is
          > room in the world and a need for rdf RSS 1.0.”
          >
          > One approach we’ve been taking – is creating pseudo-schemas – which
          > are NEITHER xml or rdf – but rather – a lowest common denominator
          > between the two – which enables us all to agree upon basic forms,
          > fields and functions.
          >
          > THEN the particulars of gluing that pseudo-schema to RSS 1.0 or RSS
          > 2.0 happens – but at least the two ‘camps’ can stay in sync – and
          > everyone (theoretically) can stay happy.
          >
          > This Yahoo initiated effort has started with RSS 2.0 as its base – and
          > I’d vote to come to logical and efficient conclusions as to what these
          > standards should be, and then go back and ‘clone’ that functionality
          > for rdf.
          >
          > THEN we all should be focusing on shared APIs for all sorts of  media
          > functionality and make sure those calls are in SOAP, XML-RPC and REST.
          >
          > There’s just no reason why we need to degrade into some religious
          > warfare.  It’s 2005 after all (or almost at least!)

          ,
          _/ \_
          _,--. < , >
          .-'.' /(/.\
          .' .' .""". `/ `
          / / / \ /)
          ; ; ,_.;._ _;-'}/
          | | '. )( /'
          | | /'-._/\_.-'
          ; ; \_.' \ ,
          \ \ / | _.'/
          '. `'-\ /.-/.;,\
          '-._ `"""""`_.|`"""`|
          jgs `"("\/")` |# |
          \(_/ `-...-'

          grtz, su.
        • robertsayre2000
          Marc, What Yahoo! is doing here is great work. The spec still has some rough edges, but the problem space isn t real well defined, so that s cool. This is
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 20, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Marc,

            What Yahoo! is doing here is great work. The spec still has some rough
            edges, but the problem space isn't real well defined, so that's cool.
            This is where it's good for vendors to take the lead and try stuff out.

            However, please don't call this an "open standard." The licensing and
            change control are up to Yahoo!. Placing the spec under a Creative
            Commons license won't change that, either.

            A Buyer's Guide to Standards
            http://www.goland.org/Tech/buyingopenstandards.htm

            Robert Sayre

            --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Canter" <marc@b...> wrote:
            > I've asked Jeremy Z to post an apology and olive branch to Dave - as we
            > need his experience and expertise here.
            >
            > I believe that Yahoo is more or less "new" at this open standards game,
            > so please don't judge them on anything more than the 150M end-users they
            > can bring to bear on these standards.
            >
            > That's enough for me - to give them a little slack.
            >
          • daviddhall@yahoo.com
            Hi Robert - Thanks for your comments. Please detail the rough edges so that we can attempt to fix them! David Hall Yahoo! Search ... rough ... cool. ... out.
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 20, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Robert -

              Thanks for your comments. Please detail the rough edges so that we
              can attempt to fix them!

              David Hall
              Yahoo! Search

              --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, "robertsayre2000" <yahoogr@f...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Marc,
              >
              > What Yahoo! is doing here is great work. The spec still has some
              rough
              > edges, but the problem space isn't real well defined, so that's
              cool.
              > This is where it's good for vendors to take the lead and try stuff
              out.
              >
              > However, please don't call this an "open standard." The licensing
              and
              > change control are up to Yahoo!. Placing the spec under a Creative
              > Commons license won't change that, either.
              >
              > A Buyer's Guide to Standards
              > http://www.goland.org/Tech/buyingopenstandards.htm
              >
              > Robert Sayre
              >
              > --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Canter" <marc@b...> wrote:
              > > I've asked Jeremy Z to post an apology and olive branch to Dave -
              as we
              > > need his experience and expertise here.
              > >
              > > I believe that Yahoo is more or less "new" at this open standards
              game,
              > > so please don't judge them on anything more than the 150M end-
              users they
              > > can bring to bear on these standards.
              > >
              > > That's enough for me - to give them a little slack.
              > >
            • robertsayre2000
              I didn t mean that derisively. Some stuff is just going to have to be vague for now. Some Issues: http://tools.search.yahoo.com/mrss/mrss-5.xml In this sample,
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 20, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                I didn't mean that derisively. Some stuff is just going to have to be
                vague for now.

                Some Issues:

                http://tools.search.yahoo.com/mrss/mrss-5.xml
                In this sample, there are three different songs in the entry, yet no
                title for the songs. How can the blogger refer to each song? Shouldn't
                there be a media:title element?

                media:text should be clear about markup and whitespace.

                The media:people example includes names separated by pipes. What
                happens when some company name with a pipe in it gets thrown in? Using
                XML to separate the names would avoid this issue. Placing each name in
                a child element would be more extensible and straightforward to
                manipulate with XML tools, as well.

                There's no way to do bittorrent and other kinds of distribution
                indirection. I could see including that information using Adam Curry's
                torrent extension as a subelement, but that messes with the
                url/playerUrl co-constraint.

                media:category might work better if the text content was in an
                attribute. That way, child elements could be added in a backwards
                compatible manner.

                There's no way to indicate continuous content (24/7 radio station).

                There's no way to indicate a byte range for content served over http.
                If this were included, it would be possible to refer to specific
                sections of a media item, and clients could send range requests for
                the item. Perhaps format-specific chapter indicators and such could
                also be used.

                Robert Sayre

                --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, daviddhall@y... wrote:
                >
                > Hi Robert -
                >
                > Thanks for your comments. Please detail the rough edges so that we
                > can attempt to fix them!
                >
                > David Hall
                > Yahoo! Search
              • daviddhall@yahoo.com
                Thanks Robert - No offense was taken! This was an excellent list of rough edges... This is exactly the kind of feedback we re looking for. David Hall Yahoo!
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 20, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks Robert -

                  No offense was taken! This was an excellent list of rough edges...
                  This is exactly the kind of feedback we're looking for.

                  David Hall
                  Yahoo! Search

                  --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, "robertsayre2000" <yahoogr@f...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I didn't mean that derisively. Some stuff is just going to have to
                  be
                  > vague for now.
                  >
                  > Some Issues:
                  >
                  > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/mrss/mrss-5.xml
                  > In this sample, there are three different songs in the entry, yet no
                  > title for the songs. How can the blogger refer to each song?
                  Shouldn't
                  > there be a media:title element?
                  >
                  > media:text should be clear about markup and whitespace.
                  >
                  > The media:people example includes names separated by pipes. What
                  > happens when some company name with a pipe in it gets thrown in?
                  Using
                  > XML to separate the names would avoid this issue. Placing each name
                  in
                  > a child element would be more extensible and straightforward to
                  > manipulate with XML tools, as well.
                  >
                  > There's no way to do bittorrent and other kinds of distribution
                  > indirection. I could see including that information using Adam
                  Curry's
                  > torrent extension as a subelement, but that messes with the
                  > url/playerUrl co-constraint.
                  >
                  > media:category might work better if the text content was in an
                  > attribute. That way, child elements could be added in a backwards
                  > compatible manner.
                  >
                  > There's no way to indicate continuous content (24/7 radio station).
                  >
                  > There's no way to indicate a byte range for content served over
                  http.
                  > If this were included, it would be possible to refer to specific
                  > sections of a media item, and clients could send range requests for
                  > the item. Perhaps format-specific chapter indicators and such could
                  > also be used.
                  >
                  > Robert Sayre
                  >
                  > --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, daviddhall@y... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Robert -
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for your comments. Please detail the rough edges so that
                  we
                  > > can attempt to fix them!
                  > >
                  > > David Hall
                  > > Yahoo! Search
                • Marc Canter
                  Um - well we can change that right quick. I certainly don t think Jeremy and David et al - are looking to increase Yahoo s intellectual property portfolio. Are
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 20, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Um – well we can change that right quick.

                     

                    I certainly don’t think Jeremy and David et al – are looking to increase Yahoo’s intellectual property portfolio.

                     

                    Are they?

                     

                    They’re probably just big company guys – who’s knee jerk reaction is to put copyright notices all over the place to help secure their jobs.

                     

                    But this is a unique situation.

                     

                    Hey Jeremy – what’s the gist on this?

                     

                    - marc

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: robertsayre2000 [mailto:yahoogr@...]
                    Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 6:48 PM
                    To: rss-media@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [rss-media] [ipodder-dev] Re: Yahoo Media RSS

                     


                    Marc,

                    What Yahoo! is doing here is great work. The spec still has some rough
                    edges, but the problem space isn't real well defined, so that's cool.
                    This is where it's good for vendors to take the lead and try stuff out.

                    However, please don't call this an "open standard." The licensing and
                    change control are up to Yahoo!. Placing the spec under a Creative
                    Commons license won't change that, either.

                    A Buyer's Guide to Standards
                    http://www.goland.org/Tech/buyingopenstandards.htm

                    Robert Sayre

                    --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Canter" <marc@b...> wrote:
                    > I've asked Jeremy Z to post an apology and olive branch to Dave - as we
                    > need his experience and expertise here.

                    > I believe that Yahoo is more or less "new" at this open standards game,
                    > so please don't judge them on anything more than the 150M end-users they
                    > can bring to bear on these standards.

                    > That's enough for me - to give them a little slack.







                  • Jeremy Zawodny
                    ... Agreed. ... I wouldn t call it a standard of any sort--at least not yet. If a lot of people begin to adopt it (or whatever it morphs into), then it may
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 20, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 05:47:33PM -0000, robertsayre2000 wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Marc,
                      >
                      > What Yahoo! is doing here is great work. The spec still has some rough
                      > edges, but the problem space isn't real well defined, so that's cool.

                      Agreed.

                      > However, please don't call this an "open standard."

                      I wouldn't call it a "standard" of any sort--at least not yet. If a
                      lot of people begin to adopt it (or whatever it morphs into), then it
                      may become a standard. But right now it's a proposal--a starting
                      point for discussion.

                      It seems like a waste to build something that suits our needs and not
                      see if there's interest in using and/or adopting it outside of Yahoo.

                      > The licensing and change control are up to Yahoo!. Placing the spec
                      > under a Creative Commons license won't change that, either.

                      What will change that?

                      Jeremy
                      --
                      Jeremy D. Zawodny, <jzawodn@...>
                      Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Troublemaker
                      Desk: (408) 349-7878 Cell: (408) 685-5936
                    • Jeremy Zawodny
                      ... Not with this proposal at least. :-) ... Amusingly, I tend to forget copyright notices. ... I think I answered this in another post a minute ago, but if
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 20, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 07:05:16AM +0100, Marc Canter wrote:
                        > Um - well we can change that right quick.
                        >
                        > I certainly don't think Jeremy and David et al - are looking to increase
                        > Yahoo's intellectual property portfolio.

                        Not with this proposal at least. :-)

                        > They're probably just big company guys - who's knee jerk reaction is to
                        > put copyright notices all over the place to help secure their jobs.

                        Amusingly, I tend to forget copyright notices.

                        > But this is a unique situation.
                        >
                        > Hey Jeremy - what's the gist on this?

                        I think I answered this in another post a minute ago, but if need be
                        we can get one of our lawyer involved to help fix this officially.
                        But I'm not sure if it's worth a lawyer's time quite yet.

                        If that's what it takes to prove our intentions, then we can do it.
                        But I'd rather focus on figuring out if/how we can morph this notion
                        of Media in RSS to solve a lot of the technical problems we've been
                        discussing on the list.

                        Jeremy
                        --
                        Jeremy D. Zawodny, <jzawodn@...>
                        Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Troublemaker
                        Desk: (408) 349-7878 Cell: (408) 685-5936
                      • robertsayre2000
                        ... Agree 100%. ... Now is not the time, but you have to take it to a real standards organization. That will mean giving up IP, copyright, and change control.
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 21, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >
                          > > However, please don't call this an "open standard."
                          >
                          > I wouldn't call it a "standard" of any sort--at least not yet. If a
                          > lot of people begin to adopt it (or whatever it morphs into), then it
                          > may become a standard. But right now it's a proposal--a starting
                          > point for discussion.
                          >
                          > It seems like a waste to build something that suits our needs and not
                          > see if there's interest in using and/or adopting it outside of Yahoo.
                          >

                          Agree 100%.


                          > > The licensing and change control are up to Yahoo!. Placing the spec
                          > > under a Creative Commons license won't change that, either.
                          >
                          > What will change that?

                          Now is not the time, but you have to take it to a real standards
                          organization. That will mean giving up IP, copyright, and change
                          control. That's what it will take for your direct and indirect
                          competitors to buy in, but it would help everyone.

                          No one is questioning your intentions, but you never know who will be
                          running Yahoo in 5 or 10 years. The spec is pretty simple, but I'm
                          constantly suprised at what people will try to assert IP rights over.

                          Of course, all of the above assumes you have something other people
                          want to use. Yahoo as benevolent dictator is probably the most
                          productive way to proceed for now, IMHO.

                          Robert Sayre
                        • Marc Canter
                          Robert Sayre originally wrote.. ... Jeremy Zawodny replied ... Robert replied back Now is not the time, but you have to take it to a real standards
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 21, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment


                            Robert Sayre originally wrote….


                            > > The licensing and change control are up to Yahoo! Placing the spec
                            > > under a Creative Commons license won't change that, either.
                            >

                             

                            Jeremy Zawodny replied


                            > What will change that?

                            Robert replied back


                            Now is not the time, but you have to take it to a real standards
                            organization. That will mean giving up IP, copyright, and change
                            control. That's what it will take for your direct and indirect
                            competitors to buy in, but it would help everyone.

                            No one is questioning your intentions, but you never know who will be
                            running Yahoo in 5 or 10 years. The spec is pretty simple, but I'm
                            constantly suprised at what people will try to assert IP rights over.

                            Of course, all of the above assumes you have something other people
                            want to use. Yahoo as benevolent dictator is probably the most
                            productive way to proceed for now, IMHO.

                            Robert Sayre


                            And now Marc Canter is chiming in……..

                             

                                        Lessons we’ve learned from both Java and RSS tells me that standards committees are way down the line.  3-5 years out at best.

                             

                                        That’s why Atom holding auditions for standards bodies was so comical - “who cares about a standard that’s not adopted?”

                             

                                        So I’ve always deferred to the open marketplace and vendors who adopt standards.  Flash and/or Director weren’t standards until millions of people used them.

                             

                                        But I can see why Robert is concerned.  Java has suffered from Sun’s vice grip control over it.  For Media RSS to succeed it has to walk the fine line between “riding on its mother’s shoulders” – and being an ‘open standard’.  But let’s just drop the labels or paranoia and move on.

                             

                                        First things first – we gotta tie down what the spec is, then get it deployed, THEN the real fun comes of tweaking and iterating to perfection.  My bet is that we won’t get it right – right out of the shoot.  They’ll be one or two things we never thought of – that some young kid comes up with – and then they’ll be some slight style and detail tweaks.

                                       

                                        But all in all – it all looks good to me. How ‘bout some working examples of……

                             

                                        Just don’t call it podcasting.

                             

                                        - marc

                             

                             





                          • robertsayre2000
                            ... Hi Marc, I edit both Atom specs. Atom adoption is doing just fine, thanks. There are millions of feeds (Blogger, LJ, MT...). I m not sure why you took time
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 21, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Canter" <marc@b...> wrote:

                              >
                              > That's why Atom holding auditions for standards bodies was
                              > so comical - "who cares about a standard that's not adopted?"
                              >

                              Hi Marc, I edit both Atom specs. Atom adoption is doing just fine,
                              thanks. There are millions of feeds (Blogger, LJ, MT...). I'm not sure
                              why you took time out to diss it...

                              > So I've always deferred to the open marketplace and vendors
                              > who adopt standards. Flash and/or Director weren't standards until
                              > millions of people used them.

                              Flash and Director are worse off because they aren't standards.
                              Everyone still has to use Macromedia's bad IDEs, the back button
                              doesn't work, etc, etc. I'm pretty sure the SWF license used to say
                              you had to emulate Macromedia's bugs.

                              By your definition, the MS Word format is an "open standard". What a
                              joke. I've taken the time to give my technical feedback. Please don't
                              make this a part of your FUD-slinging hype machine. Thanks.

                              Robert Sayre
                            • Marc Canter
                              ... Hi Marc, I edit both Atom specs. Atom adoption is doing just fine, thanks. There are millions of feeds (Blogger, LJ, MT...). I m not sure why you took time
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 21, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment


                                > That's why Atom holding auditions for standards bodies was
                                > so comical - "who cares about a standard that's not adopted?"


                                Hi Marc, I edit both Atom specs. Atom adoption is doing just fine,
                                thanks. There are millions of feeds (Blogger,
                                LJ, MT...). I'm not sure
                                why you took time out to diss it...

                                 

                                >>>>>> Hey that’s great that you’re using Atom – what for?  How is it different than RSS?  Why is it better?  Why does it exist?



                                > So I've always deferred to the open marketplace and vendors
                                > who adopt standards.  Flash and/or Director weren't standards until
                                > millions of people used them.

                                Flash and Director are worse off because they aren't standards.
                                Everyone still has to use Macromedia's bad IDEs, the back button
                                doesn't work, etc, etc. I'm pretty sure the SWF license used to say
                                you had to emulate Macromedia's bugs.

                                 

                                >>>>>  Hey dude - check out Laszlo.  No more timelines – they’re so, so, so, 90’s.  97% of web machine ain’t a bad installed base.  But you’re right – Flash is the epitome of a closed standard masquerading as a open standard.  In fact I’ll be doing penance the rest of my life for that one.  But my excuse is “I left the company in ’92, it’s not my fault.”



                                By your definition, the MS Word format is an "open standard". What a
                                joke. I've taken the time to give my technical feedback. Please don't
                                make this a part of your FUD-slinging hype machine. Thanks.

                                 

                                >>>>>  Well Word’s format is emulated allot, so that makes it a standard.  But I have great hopes for SVG, SMIL, OpenOffice’s XML formats and anything Chandler comes up with. But it’s gotta work.  All the SVHG players have sucked up until now.  IMHO.

                                 

                                >>>>>  And remember one man’s FUD is another man’s marching orders.  If Yahoo wasn’t doing this – we wouldn’t be here talking.



                                Robert Sayre





                              • robertsayre2000
                                ... Dude, I m not going to shit all over this list about Atom vs. RSS. You started it, remember? I don t care what you put on your server, why are you so
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 21, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In rss-media@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Canter" <marc@b...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  > >>>>>> Hey that's great that you're using Atom - what for? How is it
                                  > different than RSS? Why is it better? Why does it exist?

                                  Dude, I'm not going to shit all over this list about Atom vs. RSS. You
                                  started it, remember? I don't care what you put on your server, why
                                  are you so concerned about Atom? Use RSS2, be free!

                                  Anyway, you've added zero value to this list so far. Keep it up. Maybe
                                  mention Marquis a bit.

                                  I've thrown my two cents in. I'm done here.

                                  Robert Sayre
                                • Lucas Gonze
                                  ... IMO this is a false dichotomy. It s not true that designs for protocols and data formats are either invented out in the time it takes to type them or
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 21, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > Now is not the time, but you have to take it to a real standards
                                    > organization. That will mean giving up IP, copyright, and change
                                    > control. That's what it will take for your direct and indirect
                                    > competitors to buy in, but it would help everyone.
                                    ...
                                    > Of course, all of the above assumes you have something other people
                                    > want to use. Yahoo as benevolent dictator is probably the most
                                    > productive way to proceed for now, IMHO.
                                    ...
                                    > Lessons we've learned from both Java and RSS tells me that
                                    > standards committees are way down the line. 3-5 years out at best.
                                    ...
                                    > First things first – we gotta tie down what the spec is, then
                                    > get it deployed, THEN the real fun comes of tweaking and iterating to
                                    > perfection. My bet is that we won't get it right – right out of the shoot.
                                    > They'll be one or two things we never thought of – that some young kid comes
                                    > up with – and then they'll be some slight style and detail tweaks.

                                    IMO this is a false dichotomy. It's not true that designs for
                                    protocols and data formats are either invented out in the time it
                                    takes to type them or agonized over for years. The ideal timeline is
                                    on the order of months rather than either minutes or years.

                                    First things first -- say what you're doing and not doing, so that you
                                    can limit the scope of the work. So, Yahoo guys, what are you doing
                                    and not doing?

                                    - Lucas
                                  • daviddhall@yahoo.com
                                    ... you ... I agree this hasn t been fully hammered out. We ll try to spell it all out in better detail later. But in an attempt to answer the question, the
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 22, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      > First things first -- say what you're doing and not doing, so that
                                      you
                                      > can limit the scope of the work. So, Yahoo guys, what are you doing
                                      > and not doing?

                                      I agree this hasn't been fully hammered out. We'll try to spell it
                                      all out in better detail later.

                                      But in an attempt to answer the question, the primary selfish
                                      motivator was to get interesting/fresh media content in our search
                                      index with good ranking information.

                                      But, of course, we realize that this could greatly benefit the
                                      community in all sorts of other ways (such as Podcasting). And
                                      naturally, these benefits reach within other parts of Yahoo as well.
                                      Ideally, this module could be all things to all people. That most
                                      likely won't happen, but we can at least try.

                                      It would be helpful to know what things people *want* out of such a
                                      module, so that we can say intelligently say "no, not interested in
                                      solving that". I don't think anything suggested thus far has been out
                                      of the scope of what we want to solve.
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.